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Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer

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From: Ben Regis
Date: Aug 8, 2017 11:03AM

Just Google something like ... javascript esc close menu ... and you'll see some examples on Stack Overflow - it depends on how the menu is set up but it should hopefully be easy to implement.

The HTML looks ok. I tried it using NVDA on various browsers in Windows and it's working properly i.e. it reads out the alt text once, then the caption once. You mentioned VoiceOver below - have you tried other screen readers / browsers / operating systems - it may be a particular combination.

Ben

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
Sent: 08 August 2017 17:11
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer

I did check the menu with ESC and it did not close. (Ben or anyone else) Do you happen to know what she needs to do to make that happen?

Sarah Ferguson
Web Accessibility Specialist
Department of Digital Communications
Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility


On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Sarah Ferguson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> I can't promise she wasn't in the middle of working on this when I
> captured it, but here:
>
> <div class="captioned-image-wrap">
> <figure class="captioned-image left">
>
> <img alt="Students in hallway of Schneider Building"
> src="../../images/upperfordiversitypage.jpg" width="479"/>
> <figcaption>
> <a
> href="../../nrcpd/index.html">
> Students at Heller are
> conversing in the hallway
> </a>
> </figcaption>
> </figure>
>
> Sarah Ferguson
> Web Accessibility Specialist
> Department of Digital Communications
> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259 <(781)%20736-4259>
> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Sarah
>>
>> The double alt reading just seems wrong then - can you copy the bit
>> of HTML she's used for the figure and image?
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
>> Sent: 08 August 2017 16:49
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> She said that the site that reads better (in my opinion) throws HTML
>> code flags. That site is still in development, as well. While she
>> isn't willing to use that code as a solution, she is at least willing
>> to keep tinkering, so at least there is that.
>>
>> I haven't tried the escape key, I will see if that has an effect. thanks.
>>
>> Regarding the caption, no the caption can be different. The alt text
>> reads as a description of the whole (called figure), then again (same
>> alt
>> text) for the image. Then the caption will read.
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>> Sarah Ferguson
>> Web Accessibility Specialist
>> Department of Digital Communications
>> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
>> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Sarah
>> >
>> > I'm not a fan of big menus for any site and it sounds like it's far
>> > too difficult to navigate. You said about another of your sites
>> > reading the correct number of items and that "She says that the
>> > code in that site is incorrect, so she won't follow it." - can you
>> > let me know what the address of that site is - it would be
>> > interesting to know what she thought was wrong with it.
>> >
>> > According to http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menu the
>> > Escape key should allow you to exit the menu - at least that way
>> > the user wouldn't need to navigate back out again.
>> >
>> > With the image issue - are you saying that you can't enter separate
>> > text for the caption? So the caption will just use whatever is set
>> > for
>> alt text?
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> >
>> > Ben
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> > Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
>> > Sent: 08 August 2017 15:51
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>> >
>> > Sorry, Ben. It's not live and is on a secured server.
>> >
>> > Sarah Ferguson
>> > Web Accessibility Specialist
>> > Department of Digital Communications Brandeis University *|*
>> > 781.736.4259 www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Sarah
>> > >
>> > > Is it possible to see the website?
>> > >
>> > > Kind regards
>> > >
>> > > Ben
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>> > > On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
>> > > Sent: 07 August 2017 20:44
>> > > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> > > Subject: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>> > >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > We have an outside developer working on one of our sites. I've
>> > > done a review of the site and she's done a few rounds of fixes.
>> > > We have a couple of sticking points.
>> > >
>> > > **Hamburger menu**
>> > >
>> > > The desktop site has a hamburger menu. VoiceOver is reading the
>> > > menu as "*Navigation
>> > > 3 items*." The open menu actually has 3 columns with 28 items total.
>> > > You cannot currently navigate column to column, nor are the
>> > > columns ever differentiated by Voiceover. It's read as one long
>> > > list. To me, the user hears 3 items and expects 3 items. Getting
>> > > 28 items at this point is confusing. Furthermore, I feel that
>> > > someone having to backup through 28 items to close a menu with
>> > > the toggle that opened it, is
>> > asking a lot.
>> > >
>> > > I would be happy if it either announced 28 items and there was a
>> > > way to close the menu without backing all the way up, or if the
>> > > user could navigate column to column and drill into each column
>> > > (at which point I feel VO should also read the correct number of
>> > > items in each
>> column).
>> > > I've given her another of our sites that reads the actual number
>> > > of items. It is also much shorter than 28 items, so closing the
>> > > menu is less of an issue. She says that the code in that site is
>> > > incorrect, so
>> > she won't follow it.
>> > >
>> > > The main navigation has a similar issue. It is reading as 1 item
>> > > (being 1 list with several items).
>> > >
>> > > *Do you think it is ok to have the navigation menus read the
>> > > number of lists instead of the number of items? Any ideas for
>> > > alternate solutions or examples of sites you feel handle
>> > > hamburger menu very
>> > > well?*
>> > >
>> > > ****
>> > >
>> > > **Image and caption**
>> > >
>> > > The second issue is the way she coded images with captions. Right
>> > > now, she has coded the image and caption as a figure in HTML5.
>> > > This is causing the "figure" (the image and caption together) to
>> > > read the alt text, followed by hearing the alt text again for the
>> > > image itself and then hearing the caption. I find this
>> > > redundant. She argues it is better, because this tagging method
>> > > identifies the caption as a caption and not just text. It links
>> > > the image and caption together. I can see that point, but the
>> > > redundancy still
>> bothers me.
>> > >
>> > > *What are your thoughts? Do you know of any alternate solutions
>> > > for making the caption and image be linked and label the caption
>> > > as such, without the alt text reading twice?*
>> > >
>> > > ****
>> > >
>> > > Thanks!
>> > > Sarah
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Sarah
>> > > >> > > >> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > > >> > >
>> > >
>> > > >> > > >> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > > >> > >
>> > >> > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> >
>> >
>> > >> > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> >
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>>
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>