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Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer

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From: Sarah Ferguson
Date: Aug 8, 2017 11:24AM

Thanks Ben. I did get code for ESC. All of our students use MAC, so it's
important that it works in VO, but I will see how it works in JAWS anyway.
Thanks

Sarah Ferguson
Web Accessibility Specialist
Department of Digital Communications
Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility


On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Just Google something like ... javascript esc close menu ... and you'll
> see some examples on Stack Overflow - it depends on how the menu is set up
> but it should hopefully be easy to implement.
>
> The HTML looks ok. I tried it using NVDA on various browsers in Windows
> and it's working properly i.e. it reads out the alt text once, then the
> caption once. You mentioned VoiceOver below - have you tried other screen
> readers / browsers / operating systems - it may be a particular combination.
>
> Ben
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> Sent: 08 August 2017 17:11
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>
> I did check the menu with ESC and it did not close. (Ben or anyone else)
> Do you happen to know what she needs to do to make that happen?
>
> Sarah Ferguson
> Web Accessibility Specialist
> Department of Digital Communications
> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Sarah Ferguson < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > I can't promise she wasn't in the middle of working on this when I
> > captured it, but here:
> >
> > <div class="captioned-image-wrap">
> > <figure class="captioned-image left">
> >
> > <img alt="Students in hallway of Schneider Building"
> > src="../../images/upperfordiversitypage.jpg" width="479"/>
> > <figcaption>
> > <a
> > href="../../nrcpd/index.html">
> > Students at Heller are
> > conversing in the hallway
> > </a>
> > </figcaption>
> > </figure>
> >
> > Sarah Ferguson
> > Web Accessibility Specialist
> > Department of Digital Communications
> > Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259 <(781)%20736-4259>
> > www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Sarah
> >>
> >> The double alt reading just seems wrong then - can you copy the bit
> >> of HTML she's used for the figure and image?
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> >> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> >> Sent: 08 August 2017 16:49
> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> >>
> >> Hi Ben,
> >>
> >> She said that the site that reads better (in my opinion) throws HTML
> >> code flags. That site is still in development, as well. While she
> >> isn't willing to use that code as a solution, she is at least willing
> >> to keep tinkering, so at least there is that.
> >>
> >> I haven't tried the escape key, I will see if that has an effect.
> thanks.
> >>
> >> Regarding the caption, no the caption can be different. The alt text
> >> reads as a description of the whole (called figure), then again (same
> >> alt
> >> text) for the image. Then the caption will read.
> >>
> >> Sarah
> >>
> >> Sarah Ferguson
> >> Web Accessibility Specialist
> >> Department of Digital Communications
> >> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
> >> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi Sarah
> >> >
> >> > I'm not a fan of big menus for any site and it sounds like it's far
> >> > too difficult to navigate. You said about another of your sites
> >> > reading the correct number of items and that "She says that the
> >> > code in that site is incorrect, so she won't follow it." - can you
> >> > let me know what the address of that site is - it would be
> >> > interesting to know what she thought was wrong with it.
> >> >
> >> > According to http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menu the
> >> > Escape key should allow you to exit the menu - at least that way
> >> > the user wouldn't need to navigate back out again.
> >> >
> >> > With the image issue - are you saying that you can't enter separate
> >> > text for the caption? So the caption will just use whatever is set
> >> > for
> >> alt text?
> >> >
> >> > Kind regards
> >> >
> >> > Ben
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> >> > Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> >> > Sent: 08 August 2017 15:51
> >> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, Ben. It's not live and is on a secured server.
> >> >
> >> > Sarah Ferguson
> >> > Web Accessibility Specialist
> >> > Department of Digital Communications Brandeis University *|*
> >> > 781.736.4259 www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi Sarah
> >> > >
> >> > > Is it possible to see the website?
> >> > >
> >> > > Kind regards
> >> > >
> >> > > Ben
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> >> > > On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> >> > > Sent: 07 August 2017 20:44
> >> > > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> > > Subject: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi all,
> >> > >
> >> > > We have an outside developer working on one of our sites. I've
> >> > > done a review of the site and she's done a few rounds of fixes.
> >> > > We have a couple of sticking points.
> >> > >
> >> > > **Hamburger menu**
> >> > >
> >> > > The desktop site has a hamburger menu. VoiceOver is reading the
> >> > > menu as "*Navigation
> >> > > 3 items*." The open menu actually has 3 columns with 28 items total.
> >> > > You cannot currently navigate column to column, nor are the
> >> > > columns ever differentiated by Voiceover. It's read as one long
> >> > > list. To me, the user hears 3 items and expects 3 items. Getting
> >> > > 28 items at this point is confusing. Furthermore, I feel that
> >> > > someone having to backup through 28 items to close a menu with
> >> > > the toggle that opened it, is
> >> > asking a lot.
> >> > >
> >> > > I would be happy if it either announced 28 items and there was a
> >> > > way to close the menu without backing all the way up, or if the
> >> > > user could navigate column to column and drill into each column
> >> > > (at which point I feel VO should also read the correct number of
> >> > > items in each
> >> column).
> >> > > I've given her another of our sites that reads the actual number
> >> > > of items. It is also much shorter than 28 items, so closing the
> >> > > menu is less of an issue. She says that the code in that site is
> >> > > incorrect, so
> >> > she won't follow it.
> >> > >
> >> > > The main navigation has a similar issue. It is reading as 1 item
> >> > > (being 1 list with several items).
> >> > >
> >> > > *Do you think it is ok to have the navigation menus read the
> >> > > number of lists instead of the number of items? Any ideas for
> >> > > alternate solutions or examples of sites you feel handle
> >> > > hamburger menu very
> >> > > well?*
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >> > >
> >> > > **Image and caption**
> >> > >
> >> > > The second issue is the way she coded images with captions. Right
> >> > > now, she has coded the image and caption as a figure in HTML5.
> >> > > This is causing the "figure" (the image and caption together) to
> >> > > read the alt text, followed by hearing the alt text again for the
> >> > > image itself and then hearing the caption. I find this
> >> > > redundant. She argues it is better, because this tagging method
> >> > > identifies the caption as a caption and not just text. It links
> >> > > the image and caption together. I can see that point, but the
> >> > > redundancy still
> >> bothers me.
> >> > >
> >> > > *What are your thoughts? Do you know of any alternate solutions
> >> > > for making the caption and image be linked and label the caption
> >> > > as such, without the alt text reading twice?*
> >> > >
> >> > > ****
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks!
> >> > > Sarah
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Sarah
> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > > >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > >> >
> >> >
> >> > > >> > > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > >>
> >>
> >> > >> > >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > >>
> >
> >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
> > > > >