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Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer

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From: Sarah Ferguson
Date: Aug 10, 2017 10:06AM

Thanks, Ben.

Yes, I agree. That is what I teach my editors.

Sarah


On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi Sarah
>
> I'm glad you found solutions!
>
> With regard to Dan's comment - if the caption fully describes the image
> then an empty alt may be ok but in most cases a descriptive alt would be
> useful in addition to the caption. I think https://dequeuniversity.com/pr
> esentations/html5-nfb/figure-figcaption explains this well.
>
> Ben
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> Sent: 10 August 2017 16:40
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>
> Sorry, what would be decorative?
>
> As an aside, we've been able to find a solution for both issues.
>
> Sarah Ferguson
> Web Accessibility Specialist
> Department of Digital Communications
> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Swift, Daniel P. < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm jumping in a little late on this -- is the alt text even needed?
> > In this situation, I would interpret this as "decorative" which means
> > that the empty alt attribute is sufficient ... right?
> >
> > Dan Swift
> > Senior Web Specialist
> > Enterprise Services
> > West Chester University
> > 610.738.0589
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 12:08 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> >
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > I can't promise she wasn't in the middle of working on this when I
> > captured it, but here:
> >
> > <div class="captioned-image-wrap">
> > <figure class="captioned-image left">
> >
> > <img alt="Students in hallway of Schneider Building"
> > src="../../images/upperfordiversitypage.jpg" width="479"/>
> > <figcaption>
> > <a
> > href="../../nrcpd/index.html">
> > Students at Heller are
> > conversing in the hallway
> > </a>
> > </figcaption>
> > </figure>
> >
> > Sarah Ferguson
> > Web Accessibility Specialist
> > Department of Digital Communications
> > Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
> > www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sarah
> > >
> > > The double alt reading just seems wrong then - can you copy the bit
> > > of HTML she's used for the figure and image?
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > > Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> > > Sent: 08 August 2017 16:49
> > > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> > >
> > > Hi Ben,
> > >
> > > She said that the site that reads better (in my opinion) throws HTML
> > > code flags. That site is still in development, as well. While she
> > > isn't willing to use that code as a solution, she is at least
> > > willing to keep tinkering, so at least there is that.
> > >
> > > I haven't tried the escape key, I will see if that has an effect.
> thanks.
> > >
> > > Regarding the caption, no the caption can be different. The alt text
> > > reads as a description of the whole (called figure), then again
> > > (same alt text) for the image. Then the caption will read.
> > >
> > > Sarah
> > >
> > > Sarah Ferguson
> > > Web Accessibility Specialist
> > > Department of Digital Communications Brandeis University *|*
> > > 781.736.4259 www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Sarah
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a fan of big menus for any site and it sounds like it's
> > > > far too difficult to navigate. You said about another of your
> > > > sites reading the correct number of items and that "She says that
> > > > the code in that site is incorrect, so she won't follow it." - can
> > > > you let me know what the address of that site is - it would be
> > > > interesting to know what she thought was wrong with it.
> > > >
> > > > According to http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menu the
> > > > Escape key should allow you to exit the menu - at least that way
> > > > the user wouldn't need to navigate back out again.
> > > >
> > > > With the image issue - are you saying that you can't enter
> > > > separate text for the caption? So the caption will just use
> > > > whatever is set for
> > > alt text?
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> > > > On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> > > > Sent: 08 August 2017 15:51
> > > > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a
> > > > developer
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, Ben. It's not live and is on a secured server.
> > > >
> > > > Sarah Ferguson
> > > > Web Accessibility Specialist
> > > > Department of Digital Communications Brandeis University *|*
> > > > 781.736.4259 www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Sarah
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it possible to see the website?
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Ben
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> > > > > On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> > > > > Sent: 07 August 2017 20:44
> > > > > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > We have an outside developer working on one of our sites. I've
> > > > > done a review of the site and she's done a few rounds of fixes.
> > > > > We have a couple of sticking points.
> > > > >
> > > > > **Hamburger menu**
> > > > >
> > > > > The desktop site has a hamburger menu. VoiceOver is reading the
> > > > > menu as "*Navigation
> > > > > 3 items*." The open menu actually has 3 columns with 28 items
> total.
> > > > > You cannot currently navigate column to column, nor are the
> > > > > columns ever differentiated by Voiceover. It's read as one long
> > > > > list. To me, the user hears 3 items and expects 3 items. Getting
> > > > > 28 items at this point is confusing. Furthermore, I feel that
> > > > > someone having to backup through 28 items to close a menu with
> > > > > the toggle that opened it, is
> > > > asking a lot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be happy if it either announced 28 items and there was a
> > > > > way to close the menu without backing all the way up, or if the
> > > > > user could navigate column to column and drill into each column
> > > > > (at which point I feel VO should also read the correct number of
> > > > > items in each
> > > column).
> > > > > I've given her another of our sites that reads the actual number
> > > > > of items. It is also much shorter than 28 items, so closing the
> > > > > menu is less of an issue. She says that the code in that site is
> > > > > incorrect, so
> > > > she won't follow it.
> > > > >
> > > > > The main navigation has a similar issue. It is reading as 1 item
> > > > > (being 1 list with several items).
> > > > >
> > > > > *Do you think it is ok to have the navigation menus read the
> > > > > number of lists instead of the number of items? Any ideas for
> > > > > alternate solutions or examples of sites you feel handle
> > > > > hamburger menu very
> > > > > well?*
> > > > >
> > > > > ****
> > > > >
> > > > > **Image and caption**
> > > > >
> > > > > The second issue is the way she coded images with captions.
> > > > > Right now, she has coded the image and caption as a figure in
> HTML5.
> > > > > This is causing the "figure" (the image and caption together) to
> > > > > read the alt text, followed by hearing the alt text again for
> > > > > the image itself and then hearing the caption. I find this
> redundant.
> > > > > She argues it is better, because this tagging method identifies
> > > > > the caption as a caption and not just text. It links the image
> > > > > and caption together. I can see that point, but the redundancy
> > > > > still
> > > bothers me.
> > > > >
> > > > > *What are your thoughts? Do you know of any alternate solutions
> > > > > for making the caption and image be linked and label the caption
> > > > > as such, without the alt text reading twice?*
> > > > >
> > > > > ****
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > Sarah
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sarah
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
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> >
>
> > > > >