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FW: WebAIM Discussion List Digest 22.07.2004.
From: Mark Stimson
Date: Jul 22, 2004 8:43AM
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FW: WebAIM Discussion List Digest 22.07.2004.
Gary,
I've also searched for an answer to that question a couple of years ago, and never came up with any decent data or references.  Perhaps there have been some attempts to obtain demographic data of screen reader users since then.  I'm forwarding you a study I received a couple months ago by Microsoft and Forrester Data, a private research firm, called "AT's Wide Impact - a Forrester Data & Microsoft Research Report."  It's probably the closest thing I've seen to good demographic data so far.  If you do come across any other studies I would surely be grateful if you could let me know about them.  Again, I haven't conducted a "thorough" lit search in at least 2 years, so I'm sure there's stuff out there I don't know about.
Best regards,
Mark
P.S. Gary, I'm forwarding you the article in a separate email so that I don't bombard the WebAIM Discussion List with a large attachment.
P.S.S. WebAIM Discussion folks, if any of you would like me to forward you a copy of the AT Report to your personal email address, send me a response and let me know if you prefer MS Word or Adobe PDF.
Mark  Stimson,  Ph.D.
Access Technology Specialist
Sensory Access Foundation
1142 West Evelyn Avenue
Sunnyvale, CA  94086
Ph:  408-245-7330, extension 32
Fax: 408-245-3762
<EMAIL REMOVED>
www.sensoryaccess.com
SAF Mission: To assist people who are blind or visually impaired to obtain or retain competitive employment by providing the highest quality access technology assessment, computer training, job placement and accommodation services with a goal of achieving 100% job retention.
-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:02 AM
To: Mark Stimson
Subject: WebAIM Discussion List Digest 22.07.2004.
WebAIM Discussion List Digest 22.07.2004.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: total number of screen readers
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:41:46 -0600
Hey. I am currently doing research for my company for an article about
web accessibility. I need a ballpark figure of how many people (US or
worldwide) use screen reader software. I tried asking GW Micro for
their sales figures, but they wouldn't tell me. i have also asked the
makers of JAWS, but that figure would not be very accurate, since there
are so many other screen readers out there. Does anybody know where I
could find an estimate of the total number of people who use screen
readers?
Gary
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: Flash into
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:59:04 -0600
I would suggest having your index page be something that has 2 links: &quot;flash&quot; and &quot;non-flash&quot;, then they click either link they want.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:00:40 -0600
I have an
interesting delima.&amp;nbsp; I am working on a new web site for our organization
and am including a site map.&amp;nbsp; My problem is this:&amp;nbsp; Within major
sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs that
we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar.&amp;nbsp; A program may
include training so there is a link to training for example.&amp;nbsp; This does not
pose a problem for the pages within the section.&amp;nbsp; However when those links
are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links that say
&quot;training.&quot;
&amp;nbsp;
Bobby correctly
flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.
&amp;nbsp;
A visitor using a
screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link list feature of their
browser will be confused by the duplicate named links.&amp;nbsp; However, to add the
program name to all of the links relating to that program would likely be very
annoying as well.
&amp;nbsp;
Any suggestions from
this group?
&amp;nbsp;
Thanks,
&amp;nbsp;
Mike
Moore
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:14:42 -0600
I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible
and the program name wrapped in a &amp;lt;span
class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;.&amp;nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors display:none so
that doesn't work
.hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}
&amp;nbsp;
&amp;nbsp;
&amp;lt;a
href=&quot;&quot;&amp;gt;Training &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;for
Program&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;
&amp;nbsp;
Sandra
Clark
From: mmoore [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:00 PMTo: WebAIM
Discussion ListSubject: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG
13.1
I have an
interesting delima.&amp;nbsp; I am working on a new web site for our organization
and am including a site map.&amp;nbsp; My problem is this:&amp;nbsp; Within major
sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs that
we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar.&amp;nbsp; A program may
include training so there is a link to training for example.&amp;nbsp; This does not
pose a problem for the pages within the section.&amp;nbsp; However when those links
are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links that say
&quot;training.&quot;
&amp;nbsp;
Bobby correctly
flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.
&amp;nbsp;
A visitor using a
screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link list feature of their
browser will be confused by the duplicate named links.&amp;nbsp; However, to add the
program name to all of the links relating to that program would likely be very
annoying as well.
&amp;nbsp;
Any suggestions from
this group?
&amp;nbsp;
Thanks,
&amp;nbsp;
Mike
Moore
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:31:58 -0600
check out the new article on the Webaim website:
An Accessible Method of Hiding HTML Content
-----Original Message-----
From: &quot;sllists&quot; &lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;
To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; &lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:12:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible and the program
name wrapped in a &lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors
display:none so that doesn't work
..hidden{
width:1px;
position:absolute;
left:0;
top:-100px;
height:1px;
overflow:hidden;
}
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
&lt;a href=&quot;&quot;&gt;Training &lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&gt;for Program&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
&nbsp;
Sandra Clark
&nbsp; _____&nbsp;
From: mmoore [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:00 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
I have an interesting delima.&nbsp; I am working on a new web site for our
organization and am including a site map.&nbsp; My problem is this:&nbsp; Within major
sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs
that we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar.&nbsp; A program
may include training so there is a link to training for example.&nbsp; This does
not pose a problem for the pages within the section.&nbsp; However when those
links are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links that
say &quot;training.&quot;
&nbsp;
Bobby correctly flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.
&nbsp;
A visitor using a screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link
list feature of their browser will be confused by the duplicate named links..
However, to add the program name to all of the links relating to that
program would likely be very annoying as well.
&nbsp;
Any suggestions from this group?
&nbsp;
Thanks,
&nbsp;
Mike Moore
Shane Anderson
Programmer Analyst
Web Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:24:57 -0600
I have read the article that you mentioned but I am still concerned about
the annoyance factor of adding the program name to the links - each section
would need to have seven or eight links with the hidden program name.&nbsp; The
screen reader would read &quot;program training&quot; &quot;program schedule&quot; &quot;program
participants&quot; etc.&nbsp; Then again maybe I am just being overly cautious.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Shane [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:32 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
check out the new article on the Webaim website:
An Accessible Method of Hiding HTML Content
-----Original Message-----
From: &quot;sllists&quot; &lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;
To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; &lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:12:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible and the program
name wrapped in a &lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors
display:none so that doesn't work .hidden{ width:1px; position:absolute;
left:0; top:-100px; height:1px; overflow:hidden; }
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
&lt;a href=&quot;&quot;&gt;Training &lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&gt;for Program&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
&nbsp;
Sandra Clark
&nbsp; _____&nbsp;
From: mmoore [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:00 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
I have an interesting delima.&nbsp; I am working on a new web site for our
organization and am including a site map.&nbsp; My problem is this:&nbsp; Within major
sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs
that we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar.&nbsp; A program
may include training so there is a link to training for example.&nbsp; This does
not pose a problem for the pages within the section.&nbsp; However when those
links are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links that
say &quot;training.&quot;
&nbsp;
Bobby correctly flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.
&nbsp;
A visitor using a screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link
list feature of their browser will be confused by the duplicate named links.
However, to add the program name to all of the links relating to that
program would likely be very annoying as well.
&nbsp;
Any suggestions from this group?
&nbsp;
Thanks,
&nbsp;
Mike Moore
Shane Anderson
Programmer Analyst
Web Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)
----
To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: total number of screen readers
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:40:44 -0600
Well, why not check with your local society for the blind? In Canada, its
the CNIB (Canadian National Institute for the Blind) and every country is
likely to have something similar. They may not have global figures but they
would probably have national stats. They would know the total number of
visually impaired as well as the number who are currently online. National
statistics bodies will probably also have that information, although it
would probably be much more difficult to track down.
&gt; From: &quot;garymm&quot; &lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;
&gt; Reply-To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; &lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;
&gt; Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:41:07 -0700
&gt; To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; &lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;
&gt; Subject: [WebAIM] total number of screen readers
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hey. I am currently doing research for my company for an article about
&gt; web accessibility. I need a ballpark figure of how many people (US or
&gt; worldwide) use screen reader software. I tried asking GW Micro for
&gt; their sales figures, but they wouldn't tell me. i have also asked the
&gt; makers of JAWS, but that figure would not be very accurate, since there
&gt; are so many other screen readers out there. Does anybody know where I
&gt; could find an estimate of the total number of people who use screen
&gt; readers?
&gt;
&gt; Gary
&gt;
&gt; ----
&gt; To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
&gt;
&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Skip links (in-page links) and the keyboard
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:56:17 -0600
I just updated a study of the problems and possibilities of skip links at
http://jimthatcher.com/skipnav.htm. The important news is at the very bottom
of that page. There is a pretty simple technique to be sure that your
in-page links work from the keyboard. Just do it like this:
&lt;span style=&quot;width: 100%;&quot;&gt;&lt;a name=&quot;main&quot; id=&quot;main&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
This technique is less of a hack than placing the anchor in a table - a
technique used at http://WebAIM.org. The two techniques have a common
aspect. Both place the anchor in some construct with width. That seems to be
the thing that undoes/fixes the IE6 bug.
Jim
Accessibility, What Not to do: http://jimthatcher.com/whatnot.htm.
Web Accessibility Tutorial: http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse1.htm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:34:26 -0600
Don't
take this personally but I hate excessive markup for the purpose of applying
style such as a series of nested divs whose role is only to apply different
backgrounds to the same content. For example, the Onion Skinning technique
recently discussed at AListApart.com (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/)
and this code below smacks of the same thing. It is a maintenance nightmare and
difficult for others who work with you&amp;nbsp;or after you to maintain.&amp;nbsp;Why
not simply use the Title attribute to add more information?
&amp;nbsp;
Jules
-----------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards A/Digitial Publications Distribution
Coordinator Publication Services
Section, Ministry of Northern
Development and Mines, Vox:
705-670-5608 / Fax: 705-670-5960
&nbsp; -----Original Message-----From: sllists
&nbsp; [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:13
&nbsp; PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM] Site
&nbsp; Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
&nbsp; I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible
&nbsp; and the program name wrapped in a &amp;lt;span
&nbsp; class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;.&amp;nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors display:none
&nbsp; so that doesn't work
&nbsp; ..hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}
&nbsp; &amp;nbsp;
&nbsp; &amp;nbsp;
&nbsp; &amp;lt;a href=&quot;&quot;&amp;gt;Training &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;for
&nbsp; Program&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:49:39 -0600
Not taken personally :)
&amp;nbsp;
My experience with the title attribute is that a)&amp;nbsp;I
don't feel that the use of titles meet the WCAG guideline 13.1 &amp;nbsp;of &quot;link
text must be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of context&quot;.&amp;nbsp; b)
not every screen reader is configured to read titles out of the box (or many of
them&amp;nbsp;can be reconfigured to either read or
not read titles) so I can't be sure that it would even be read.&amp;nbsp;
&amp;nbsp;
I don't think the maintenance of it is that difficult,
mainly because most of what I would use it for is dynamically programmed
anyways. Its a technique, I've found effective, but if someone comes
up with a better way that will meet standards and work, then I'd love to hear
it.
&amp;nbsp;
Sandy Clark
From: julian.rickards
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004
9:33 AMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM]
Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
Don't
take this personally but I hate excessive markup for the purpose of applying
style such as a series of nested divs whose role is only to apply different
backgrounds to the same content. For example, the Onion Skinning technique
recently discussed at AListApart.com (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/)
and this code below smacks of the same thing. It is a maintenance nightmare and
difficult for others who work with you&amp;nbsp;or after you to maintain.&amp;nbsp;Why
not simply use the Title attribute to add more information?
&amp;nbsp;
Jules
-----------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards A/Digitial Publications Distribution
Coordinator Publication Services
Section, Ministry of Northern
Development and Mines, Vox:
705-670-5608 / Fax: 705-670-5960
&nbsp; -----Original Message-----From: sllists
&nbsp; [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:13
&nbsp; PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM] Site
&nbsp; Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
&nbsp; I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible
&nbsp; and the program name wrapped in a &amp;lt;span
&nbsp; class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;.&amp;nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors display:none
&nbsp; so that doesn't work
&nbsp; ..hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}
&nbsp; &amp;nbsp;
&nbsp; &amp;nbsp;
&nbsp; &amp;lt;a href=&quot;&quot;&amp;gt;Training &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;for
&nbsp; Program&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;
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