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Thread: source order
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Mike Bleasdale
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 3:40PM
Subject: source order
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hi i am paralyzed from the neck down and use a head wand for my computer. i
am studying web devel. i had thought that main content should be place
before nav in source order. since i tab through a site, i must tab through
the webaims nav menu to reach the main content. the webaim site, and also
the wai site, have its source ordered like this, may i ask why. i had
thought content before nav was a best practice. thanks
From: Carolyn Baggoo
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 3:50PM
Subject: Re: source order
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I think it is because when the nav is at the bottom some people miss seeing it because they don't scroll down. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this. I am new to web design and my ultimate goal is to make accessible websites. Your input can really help me in understanding how I should design my sites.
Carolyn
www.bfwd.biz
--- On Mon, 4/7/08, Mike Bleasdale < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> From: Mike Bleasdale < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] source order
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Received: Monday, April 7, 2008, 5:38 PM
> hi i am paralyzed from the neck down and use a head wand for
> my computer. i
> am studying web devel. i had thought that main content
> should be place
> before nav in source order. since i tab through a site, i
> must tab through
> the webaims nav menu to reach the main content. the webaim
> site, and also
> the wai site, have its source ordered like this, may i ask
> why. i had
> thought content before nav was a best practice. thanks
>
From: Karl Groves
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 4:00PM
Subject: Re: source order
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On the surface, this seems like an excellent idea. But it also begs the
question: What happens when you want to get to the navigation?
Section 508 1194.22(o) says "A method shall be provided that permits users
to skip repetitive navigation links."
Commonly, developers will add a "Skip to Content" link immediately after
<body> which allows users to circumvent the global navigation.
Others espouse the method you describe and provide a "Skip to navigation"
link instead. This is an incorrect approach, IMO, and potentially
frustrating to multiple types of disabled users who may actually expect that
the global navigation will be early in the tab order, rather at the end of
all the page content.
IMO, the better approach is the "Skip to Content" link.
Karl Groves
AIM/YIM: karlcore
Skype: eight.pistons
www.WebAccessStrategies.com
>
From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 4:20PM
Subject: Re: source order
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On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Mike Bleasdale < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> i had thought content before nav was a best practice.
No, I wouldn't consider this a best practice. Typically, you want the
source order to be the same as the visual order. Putting content
before navigation could be problematic for several reasons:
- It's a pain to code unless you use CSS and absolute positioning.
- Using absolute positioning can cause other issues (pages that break
when fonts are enlarged, etc.)
- If users disable styles, suddenly the order is different than what
they saw visually.
- It breaks the convention used by probably 99.9% of web sites
- Now, instead of having to navigate to or past navigation (which
should be fairly consistent) in order to find the content, users must
now navigate through an unknown and variable number of links in
content to find the navigation. This is even more problematic when you
consider that screen reader users cannot see the keyboard focus point.
I'm sure there are more reasons why this is a bad idea.
The solution is to maintain the convention of navigation first and
content later, but provide a mechanism for keyboard users to skip over
the navigation. You mention both WebAIM and WAI, both of which provide
a "Skip to main content" link as the first item on the page. To get to
the main content (and bypass the navigation) using your keyboard,
simply tab to this first link on the page, hit Enter, and you're
there. You might also look into browsers or plug-ins that allow you to
navigate by other types of elements, such as headers, forms, etc. -
these can make keyboard navigation much easier.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Viable Design
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 4:40PM
Subject: Re: source order
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Very interesting discussion! I'm in the process of better organizing my
sites' tab navigation, so this is right in time.
I've seen several sites using both "Skip to Content" and "Skip to
Navigation" links, along with other "skip" links to other pertinent areas. I
believe Accessites.org has about four skip links, for example; its
navigation is floated right and follows the content.
Jo Hawke
http://www.viabledesign.com
>
> >
From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 5:00PM
Subject: Re: source order
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On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Viable Design < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I've seen several sites using both "Skip to Content" and "Skip to
> Navigation" links, along with other "skip" links to other pertinent areas.
I prefer "Skip to Content" because it informs the user where they are
going, not what they are skipping. It just seems to be slightly more
informative, to me at least.
I think you need to be careful to not provide too many "skip" links.
For most sites, just one link that skips to the content is sufficient.
Remember, keyboard and screen reader users have to navigate
through/listen to these links on every page. Many of these users can
navigate in other ways (by heading, forms, paragraphs, etc.) beyond
just the links your provide and will probably find a much more
efficient way to get to important page elements. For instance, the key
sequences F, TAB or B, Shift + Tab will get you to the Search box on
most sites. Because "skip" links are almost entirely useless to
non-keyboard users, providing a bunch of them could introduce
additional cognitive load and page clutter. There really are no
die-hard rules here, but the feedback I've received from keyboard
users is that less is often more in this area.
I've always wondered - if you have 4 "skip" links on each page, would
these qualify as "repetitive links" and thus require their own "Skip
the skip links" link according to Section 508? ;-)
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Karl Groves
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 5:20PM
Subject: Re: source order
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> I've always wondered - if you have 4 "skip" links on each page, would
> these qualify as "repetitive links" and thus require their own "Skip
> the skip links" link according to Section 508? ;-)
>
> Jared Smith
> WebAIM
And thus, Smith's Paradox was born...
Karl Groves