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Thread: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text

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Number of posts in this thread: 33 (In chronological order)

From: E.J. Zufelt
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 1:30AM
Subject: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
No previous message | Next message →

Good morning,

Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
to hear them.

Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7

Thanks,
Everett

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 6:10AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Everett

As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
opinion from that page:
"Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
and constrain
"
however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.

cheers

Geof






At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>Good morning,
>
>Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
>this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
>If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
>to hear them.
>
>Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
>using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
>text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>
>Thanks,
>Everett
>
>Follow me on Twitter
>http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
>View my LinkedIn Profile
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>

From: Evans, Donald (Contractor)
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 6:40AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could make use of hidden link text to describe them.

Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed, each with a link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS hidden text to the Buy link makes each link distinct.



-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text

Hi Everett

As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
opinion from that page:
"Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
and constrain
"
however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.

cheers

Geof






At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>Good morning,
>
>Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
>this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
>If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
>to hear them.
>
>Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
>using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
>text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>
>Thanks,
>Everett
>
>Follow me on Twitter
>http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
>View my LinkedIn Profile
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>

From: Simius Puer
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 6:55AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.

The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these (or if your
CMS enforces some manual checking).


Andrew Hart


2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could make use of
> hidden link text to describe them.
>
> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed, each with a
> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS hidden text
> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>
> Hi Everett
>
> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
> opinion from that page:
> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
> and constrain
> "
> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.
>
> cheers
>
> Geof
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >Good morning,
> >
> >Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> >this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> >If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> >to hear them.
> >
> >Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> >using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> >text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Everett
> >
> >Follow me on Twitter
> >http://twitter.com/ezufelt
> >
> >View my LinkedIn Profile
> >http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
> >
> >
> >
> >

From: Dan Conley
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 7:00AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Well, if the text is auto generated it would always be kept up to date,
wouldn't it? I think I might switch some of my table of contents code to
use this, as there are quite a lot of (PDF) links after the titles, and
I could add in <span>$title</span> easily enough.

Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
since you're not giving a definition?

Dan Conley

Simius Puer wrote:
> Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.
>
> The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
> one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
> emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
> easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these (or if your
> CMS enforces some manual checking).
>
>
> Andrew Hart
>
>
> 2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could make use of
>> hidden link text to describe them.
>>
>> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed, each with a
>> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS hidden text
>> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>>
>> Hi Everett
>>
>> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
>> opinion from that page:
>> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
>> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
>> and constrain
>> "
>> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
>> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Geof
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
>>> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
>>> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
>>> to hear them.
>>>
>>> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
>>> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
>>> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Everett
>>>
>>> Follow me on Twitter
>>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>>>
>>> View my LinkedIn Profile
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

From: Evans, Donald (Contractor)
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 7:05AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

I have used hidden CSS to

1. Create distinct link text
2. Provide a Header for navigation when there is no text on the visual screen.
3. Provide a Label for a form field when there is no text on the visual screen.



-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dan Conley
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text

Well, if the text is auto generated it would always be kept up to date,
wouldn't it? I think I might switch some of my table of contents code to
use this, as there are quite a lot of (PDF) links after the titles, and
I could add in <span>$title</span> easily enough.

Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
since you're not giving a definition?

Dan Conley

Simius Puer wrote:
> Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.
>
> The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
> one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
> emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
> easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these (or if your
> CMS enforces some manual checking).
>
>
> Andrew Hart
>
>
> 2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could make use of
>> hidden link text to describe them.
>>
>> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed, each with a
>> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS hidden text
>> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>>
>> Hi Everett
>>
>> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
>> opinion from that page:
>> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
>> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
>> and constrain
>> "
>> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
>> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Geof
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
>>> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
>>> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
>>> to hear them.
>>>
>>> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
>>> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
>>> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Everett
>>>
>>> Follow me on Twitter
>>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>>>
>>> View my LinkedIn Profile
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 7:20AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
url is necessary. Sure you could write more code to do this but why
not just do it right the first time instead of doing all of this
extra coding just because you can?

At 09:03 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>I have used hidden CSS to
>
>1. Create distinct link text
>2. Provide a Header for navigation when there is no text on the
>visual screen.
>3. Provide a Label for a form field when there is no text on the
>visual screen.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dan Conley
>Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:58 AM
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>
>Well, if the text is auto generated it would always be kept up to date,
>wouldn't it? I think I might switch some of my table of contents code to
>use this, as there are quite a lot of (PDF) links after the titles, and
>I could add in <span>$title</span> easily enough.
>
>Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
>since you're not giving a definition?
>
>Dan Conley
>
>Simius Puer wrote:
> > Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.
> >
> > The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
> > one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
> > emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
> > easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these
> (or if your
> > CMS enforces some manual checking).
> >
> >
> > Andrew Hart
> >
> >
> > 2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >
> >> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could make use of
> >> hidden link text to describe them.
> >>
> >> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed, each with a
> >> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS
> hidden text
> >> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
> >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
> >>
> >> Hi Everett
> >>
> >> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
> >> opinion from that page:
> >> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
> >> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
> >> and constrain
> >> "
> >> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
> >> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >>
> >> Geof
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >>> Good morning,
> >>>
> >>> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> >>> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> >>> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> >>> to hear them.
> >>>
> >>> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> >>> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> >>> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Everett
> >>>
> >>> Follow me on Twitter
> >>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
> >>>
> >>> View my LinkedIn Profile
> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>

From: Evans, Donald (Contractor)
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 7:25AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Your point is well taken but there are some web sites where the real estate on the screen is considered very valuable and the visual designers will not give up the few extra pixels required to print everything to the screen.

Although, I do agree with you. It is better to do it right from the start!


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:20 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text

These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
url is necessary. Sure you could write more code to do this but why
not just do it right the first time instead of doing all of this
extra coding just because you can?

At 09:03 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>I have used hidden CSS to
>
>1. Create distinct link text
>2. Provide a Header for navigation when there is no text on the
>visual screen.
>3. Provide a Label for a form field when there is no text on the
>visual screen.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dan Conley
>Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:58 AM
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>
>Well, if the text is auto generated it would always be kept up to date,
>wouldn't it? I think I might switch some of my table of contents code to
>use this, as there are quite a lot of (PDF) links after the titles, and
>I could add in <span>$title</span> easily enough.
>
>Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
>since you're not giving a definition?
>
>Dan Conley
>
>Simius Puer wrote:
> > Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.
> >
> > The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
> > one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
> > emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
> > easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these
> (or if your
> > CMS enforces some manual checking).
> >
> >
> > Andrew Hart
> >
> >
> > 2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >
> >> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could make use of
> >> hidden link text to describe them.
> >>
> >> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed, each with a
> >> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS
> hidden text
> >> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
> >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
> >>
> >> Hi Everett
> >>
> >> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
> >> opinion from that page:
> >> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
> >> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
> >> and constrain
> >> "
> >> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
> >> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >>
> >> Geof
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >>> Good morning,
> >>>
> >>> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> >>> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> >>> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> >>> to hear them.
> >>>
> >>> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> >>> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> >>> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Everett
> >>>
> >>> Follow me on Twitter
> >>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
> >>>
> >>> View my LinkedIn Profile
> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>

From: Karl Groves
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 7:30AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

>
> Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
> since you're not giving a definition?
>
> Dan Conley

This is definitely a hotly debated topic. Some would say that definition
lists should only be used for definitions, while others feel that definition
lists offer a great way to mark up anything that can (and should) be
represented as key:value pairs. I'm on the fence, personally. I'd rather not
use them for anything but definition lists, but see the logic in attempting
to put some semantic structure to such content.

Karl

From: Simius Puer
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 7:35AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

>
> Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> url is necessary.
>

You shouldn't use URLs as link text to begin with (and none of these
examples do). If you want them to be printable then you can do this using a
good print CSS although IEs support for that is somewhat lacking.

From: Dan Conley
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 7:40AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Couldn't you give a span {display:none} (or display inline if that's
what you'd prefer) in a print stylesheet? What would you say 'do[ing] it
right the first time' is? Here's what the TOC on one of my sites looks like:

Activities of Daily Living (PDF)
Adult Education and Intellectual and Allied Developmental Disabilities (PDF)
Amnesia (PDF)
Aphasia (PDF)

The titles are for html, the PDF links to the PDF version. I hadn't
thought of a way of differentiating the PDF links until now, but this
seems like a decent way to do it. The only issue I can see is that with
stylesheets disabled, the link text will be overly long (especially for
AEIADD above).

Dan Conley

Geof Collis wrote:
> These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> url is necessary. Sure you could write more code to do this but why
> not just do it right the first time instead of doing all of this
> extra coding just because you can?
>
> At 09:03 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>> I have used hidden CSS to
>>
>> 1. Create distinct link text
>> 2. Provide a Header for navigation when there is no text on the
>> visual screen.
>> 3. Provide a Label for a form field when there is no text on the
>> visual screen.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dan Conley
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:58 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>>
>> Well, if the text is auto generated it would always be kept up to date,
>> wouldn't it? I think I might switch some of my table of contents code to
>> use this, as there are quite a lot of (PDF) links after the titles, and
>> I could add in <span>$title</span> easily enough.
>>
>> Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
>> since you're not giving a definition?
>>
>> Dan Conley
>>
>> Simius Puer wrote:
>>> Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.
>>>
>>> The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
>>> one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
>>> emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
>>> easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these
>> (or if your
>>> CMS enforces some manual checking).
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew Hart
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>>> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could make use of
>>>> hidden link text to describe them.
>>>>
>>>> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed, each with a
>>>> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS
>> hidden text
>>>> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
>>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
>>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>>>>
>>>> Hi Everett
>>>>
>>>> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
>>>> opinion from that page:
>>>> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
>>>> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
>>>> and constrain
>>>> "
>>>> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
>>>> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might change my mind.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>>
>>>> Geof
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>>>>> Good morning,
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
>>>>> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
>>>>> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
>>>>> to hear them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
>>>>> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
>>>>> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Everett
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow me on Twitter
>>>>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>>>>>
>>>>> View my LinkedIn Profile
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 10:00AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

True. :O)

At 09:24 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>Your point is well taken but there are some web sites where the real
>estate on the screen is considered very valuable and the visual
>designers will not give up the few extra pixels required to print
>everything to the screen.
>
>Although, I do agree with you. It is better to do it right from the start!
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
>Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:20 AM
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
>
>These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
>to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
>url is necessary. Sure you could write more code to do this but why
>not just do it right the first time instead of doing all of this
>extra coding just because you can?
>
>At 09:03 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >I have used hidden CSS to
> >
> >1. Create distinct link text
> >2. Provide a Header for navigation when there is no text on the
> >visual screen.
> >3. Provide a Label for a form field when there is no text on the
> >visual screen.
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dan Conley
> >Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:58 AM
> >To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
> >
> >Well, if the text is auto generated it would always be kept up to date,
> >wouldn't it? I think I might switch some of my table of contents code to
> >use this, as there are quite a lot of (PDF) links after the titles, and
> >I could add in <span>$title</span> easily enough.
> >
> >Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
> >since you're not giving a definition?
> >
> >Dan Conley
> >
> >Simius Puer wrote:
> > > Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.
> > >
> > > The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
> > > one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
> > > emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
> > > easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these
> > (or if your
> > > CMS enforces some manual checking).
> > >
> > >
> > > Andrew Hart
> > >
> > >
> > > 2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > >
> > >> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could
> make use of
> > >> hidden link text to describe them.
> > >>
> > >> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed,
> each with a
> > >> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS
> > hidden text
> > >> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> > >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
> > >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
> > >> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
> > >>
> > >> Hi Everett
> > >>
> > >> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
> > >> opinion from that page:
> > >> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
> > >> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
> > >> and constrain
> > >> "
> > >> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
> > >> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might
> change my mind.
> > >>
> > >> cheers
> > >>
> > >> Geof
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> > >>> Good morning,
> > >>>
> > >>> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> > >>> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> > >>> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> > >>> to hear them.
> > >>>
> > >>> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> > >>> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> > >>> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Everett
> > >>>
> > >>> Follow me on Twitter
> > >>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
> > >>>
> > >>> View my LinkedIn Profile
> > >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 10:05AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Why cant I use the url as the link name as long as the surrounding
text lets me know where I am going.

As a screen reader user if I happen to use the JAWS drop down menu
and come upon a url then I'll just go to the link and hope the
designer has given me something to identify where I am going.




At 09:31 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >
> > Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> > to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> > url is necessary.
> >
>
>You shouldn't use URLs as link text to begin with (and none of these
>examples do). If you want them to be printable then you can do this using a
>good print CSS although IEs support for that is somewhat lacking.
>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 10:10AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

A few years ago it was pointed out to me that the url should be
either the link name or part of it, more so in things like a Blog or
Newsletter that might be printed off.

In other cases just follow WCAG and make the link name relevant to
its destination or the surrounding text.


At 09:26 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>Couldn't you give a span {display:none} (or display inline if that's
>what you'd prefer) in a print stylesheet? What would you say 'do[ing] it
>right the first time' is? Here's what the TOC on one of my sites looks like:
>
>Activities of Daily Living (PDF)
>Adult Education and Intellectual and Allied Developmental Disabilities (PDF)
>Amnesia (PDF)
>Aphasia (PDF)
>
>The titles are for html, the PDF links to the PDF version. I hadn't
>thought of a way of differentiating the PDF links until now, but this
>seems like a decent way to do it. The only issue I can see is that with
>stylesheets disabled, the link text will be overly long (especially for
>AEIADD above).
>
>Dan Conley
>
>Geof Collis wrote:
> > These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> > to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> > url is necessary. Sure you could write more code to do this but why
> > not just do it right the first time instead of doing all of this
> > extra coding just because you can?
> >
> > At 09:03 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >> I have used hidden CSS to
> >>
> >> 1. Create distinct link text
> >> 2. Provide a Header for navigation when there is no text on the
> >> visual screen.
> >> 3. Provide a Label for a form field when there is no text on the
> >> visual screen.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dan Conley
> >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:58 AM
> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
> >>
> >> Well, if the text is auto generated it would always be kept up to date,
> >> wouldn't it? I think I might switch some of my table of contents code to
> >> use this, as there are quite a lot of (PDF) links after the titles, and
> >> I could add in <span>$title</span> easily enough.
> >>
> >> Also, the W3C example uses dl/dd. Isn't that a poor use of the field,
> >> since you're not giving a definition?
> >>
> >> Dan Conley
> >>
> >> Simius Puer wrote:
> >>> Agreed - the method described by by the W3C is technically solid.
> >>>
> >>> The only potential pitfall (as they point out themselves) is an editorial
> >>> one, ensuring that the hidden text is not overly verbose. I'd also add
> >>> emphasis on ensuring it is 'accurate' and 'kept up-to-date' as these are
> >>> easily missed unless the site editors are trained to check these
> >> (or if your
> >>> CMS enforces some manual checking).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Hart
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2009/8/3 Evans, Donald (Contractor) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >>>
> >>>> Almost any page that uses the same link text many times could
> make use of
> >>>> hidden link text to describe them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Example: An ecommerce site that has a dozen products listed,
> each with a
> >>>> link next to the product's picture that says, "Buy". Adding CSS
> >> hidden text
> >>>> to the Buy link makes each link distinct.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> >>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
> >>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:06 AM
> >>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Everett
> >>>>
> >>>> As a screen reader user and an accessibility expert I'm of the
> >>>> opinion from that page:
> >>>> "Other screen reader users and accessibility experts don't recommend
> >>>> this as a general technique because the results can be overly chatty
> >>>> and constrain
> >>>> "
> >>>> however if you can show me an incident where this is used and serves
> >>>> a real purpose other than talking my ear off then I might
> change my mind.
> >>>>
> >>>> cheers
> >>>>
> >>>> Geof
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> At 03:25 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >>>>> Good morning,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> >>>>> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> >>>>> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> >>>>> to hear them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> >>>>> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> >>>>> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Everett
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Follow me on Twitter
> >>>>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
> >>>>>
> >>>>> View my LinkedIn Profile
> >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 12:00PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Ok, the more I think about this the less I understand.

If I'm hiding something that only screen readers can see/hear isn't
that reverse discrimination because sighted people wont be able to read it?


At 09:31 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >
> > Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> > to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> > url is necessary.
> >
>
>You shouldn't use URLs as link text to begin with (and none of these
>examples do). If you want them to be printable then you can do this using a
>good print CSS although IEs support for that is somewhat lacking.
>

From: Evans, Donald (Contractor)
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 12:05PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

I think of it more like describing a movie. In the case of the ecommerce site from our previous example, it's providing information that a sighted user could understand from the positioning of the information on the screen. As an example, if the Buy Link is next to a red camera, the sighted person knows which camera s/he is buying; however, the screen reader user would benefit from a link that says "Buy Red Camera".

As a side note, this is also beneficial to search engines too.



-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:56 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text

Ok, the more I think about this the less I understand.

If I'm hiding something that only screen readers can see/hear isn't
that reverse discrimination because sighted people wont be able to read it?


At 09:31 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >
> > Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> > to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> > url is necessary.
> >
>
>You shouldn't use URLs as link text to begin with (and none of these
>examples do). If you want them to be printable then you can do this using a
>good print CSS although IEs support for that is somewhat lacking.
>

From: Dean Hamack
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 12:15PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

The question is, do sighted people need to read it, or is the meaning clear
in context?

For example, I've created css bar graphs that show the percentage of
something. It's very clear from looking at the colored bar what number it
represents if you are sighted. Screenreader users get a hidden span that
says what the percent is. Is it discrimination because I'm not spelling out
the percent to the sighted user too? I don't think so.


On 8/3/09 10:56 AM, "Geof Collis" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Ok, the more I think about this the less I understand.
>
> If I'm hiding something that only screen readers can see/hear isn't
> that reverse discrimination because sighted people wont be able to read it?

From: Dan Conley
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 12:30PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

I guess it's reverse discrimination, but only if you're saying that all
people need to have access to all things at all times. My site has a
French translation, but users in the English section can't read the
French text because they have no reason to (switching between languages
is done through a link on every page, so they can if they really want to).

Maybe we're talking about different things, though. If I use this method
-- and I'm really thinking I will -- it won't be to abbreviate links or
provide more complete descriptions for screen readers. It will be, as
Donald says, to provide explanation that may not be needed otherwise.
Right now the table of contents on my site has let's say 25 instances of
a link with the text PDF. In context, that's fine, but in a list of
links on a page it's entirely useless. As I understand it, screen
readers aren't consistent in using the link title vs link text, so I
make them the same.

I haven't been able to think of a way to give each article's PDF link a
distinct title without duplicating the text immediately preceding it, so
until now I've sort of pretended the problem didn't exist. If there's
another way to handle it (and abbreviating the title text isn't an
option, since it's grabbed from a database and can be in three
languages, two of which I'm not fluent in) then I'm willing to hear it,
but it seems like hiding longer text would be a good option.

Dan Conley
Information Specialist
Center for International Rehabilitation Research Information and
Exchange (CIRRIE)
University at Buffalo, Health Sciences Library B6
Phone: (716) 829-3900 x145
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://cirrie.buffalo.edu

Geof Collis wrote:
> Ok, the more I think about this the less I understand.
>
> If I'm hiding something that only screen readers can see/hear isn't
> that reverse discrimination because sighted people wont be able to read it?
>
>
> At 09:31 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>>> Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
>>> to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
>>> url is necessary.
>>>
>> You shouldn't use URLs as link text to begin with (and none of these
>> examples do). If you want them to be printable then you can do this using a
>> good print CSS although IEs support for that is somewhat lacking.
>>

From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 12:35PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

>>
>> These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
>> to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
>> url is necessary. Sure you could write more code to do this but why
>> not just do it right the first time instead of doing all of this
>> extra coding just because you can?
>>
>>
print stylesheets *do* exist. :)

From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 12:40PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

There are cases (though relatively rare) where things are very
apparent visually, but where additional cues would be helpful or
necessary for screen reader users and for those with styles disabled.

On the WebAIM site (http://webaim.org/), we use hidden 'screen reader'
text in three instances.

1. We use it to hide a label for the search box. It's very apparent
visually what the text box is for because of the big "Search" button
adjacent to it. The label ensures that the function of the text box
("Search terms") is read to screen reader users. Putting it visually
within the page would be redundant.

2. We use hidden "You are here:" to identify the beginning of the
article breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs are a fairly common visual convention
when seen as a shole, but a screen reader user may not understand that
convention until they are probably a few links into the breadcrumbs.

3. We identify the beginning of advertisements at the bottom of
articles. The Google ads are apparent visually, but it was important
that they be identified as such to those who cannot see the "Ads by
Google" text within the ad.

Each of these are cases where content and information is already
apparent to sighted users and where the additional text ensures
accessibility. Providing lengthy descriptions or explanations for
screen reader users only is not necessary. Care needs to be taken when
hiding content just for screen reader users, particularly if the
hidden content contains a functional item (link, button, etc.)

We have an article on this at http://webaim.org/techniques/css/invisiblecontent/

Jared Smith
WebAIM

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 3:45PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

What happens if CSS and Images are turned off?



At 02:11 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>The question is, do sighted people need to read it, or is the meaning clear
>in context?
>
>For example, I've created css bar graphs that show the percentage of
>something. It's very clear from looking at the colored bar what number it
>represents if you are sighted. Screenreader users get a hidden span that
>says what the percent is. Is it discrimination because I'm not spelling out
>the percent to the sighted user too? I don't think so.
>
>
>On 8/3/09 10:56 AM, "Geof Collis" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Ok, the more I think about this the less I understand.
> >
> > If I'm hiding something that only screen readers can see/hear isn't
> > that reverse discrimination because sighted people wont be able to read it?
>
>
>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 3:50PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Sorry to change the topic on this one, but my question to this where
is the alternative to the pdf? I hate them with a passion. Are yours
accessible?



At 02:26 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>I guess it's reverse discrimination, but only if you're saying that all
>people need to have access to all things at all times. My site has a
>French translation, but users in the English section can't read the
>French text because they have no reason to (switching between languages
>is done through a link on every page, so they can if they really want to).
>
>Maybe we're talking about different things, though. If I use this method
>-- and I'm really thinking I will -- it won't be to abbreviate links or
>provide more complete descriptions for screen readers. It will be, as
>Donald says, to provide explanation that may not be needed otherwise.
>Right now the table of contents on my site has let's say 25 instances of
>a link with the text PDF. In context, that's fine, but in a list of
>links on a page it's entirely useless. As I understand it, screen
>readers aren't consistent in using the link title vs link text, so I
>make them the same.
>
>I haven't been able to think of a way to give each article's PDF link a
>distinct title without duplicating the text immediately preceding it, so
>until now I've sort of pretended the problem didn't exist. If there's
>another way to handle it (and abbreviating the title text isn't an
>option, since it's grabbed from a database and can be in three
>languages, two of which I'm not fluent in) then I'm willing to hear it,
>but it seems like hiding longer text would be a good option.
>
>Dan Conley
>Information Specialist
>Center for International Rehabilitation Research Information and
>Exchange (CIRRIE)
>University at Buffalo, Health Sciences Library B6
>Phone: (716) 829-3900 x145
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>http://cirrie.buffalo.edu
>
>Geof Collis wrote:
> > Ok, the more I think about this the less I understand.
> >
> > If I'm hiding something that only screen readers can see/hear isn't
> > that reverse discrimination because sighted people wont be able to read it?
> >
> >
> > At 09:31 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >>> Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >>> These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> >>> to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> >>> url is necessary.
> >>>
> >> You shouldn't use URLs as link text to begin with (and none of these
> >> examples do). If you want them to be printable then you can do
> this using a
> >> good print CSS although IEs support for that is somewhat lacking.
> >>

From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 3:55PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Geof Collis wrote:
> What happens if CSS and Images are turned off?
>
>
Or the computer is without power? Have you thought of that situation?

From: Dean Hamack
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 4:00PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

On 8/3/09 2:43 PM, "Geof Collis" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> What happens if CSS and Images are turned off?

In the example I gave, if the user has CSS off they would see the span that
spells out the percentage. In other examples posted here, the user might see
a bunch of redundant text.

With images off and CSS on, I suppose they wouldn't see either the bar or
the number in my example. But let's be realistic here, how many people turn
those things off? I've never met anyone who turns CSS off unless they are a
developer doing testing. And the only people I know who turn images off are
people on mobile devices who do so to speed up browsing over cellular
connections. If you are doing your job as a developer properly, the latter
are going to be served mobile specific stylesheets, and the point will be
moot.

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 4:25PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

But how many do create them?

Many of you live in the upper echelon of web design, I deal with
people who dont have a clue of most of what is being talked about
here, they get a whiff of what you are speaking of, implement it
poorly and set back accessibility for years, then it is up to people
like myself to undo the damage and that is no easy task.

It is my philosophy to use the KISS principle, Keep it Simple
Stupid, no offense to anyone I didn't make up the phrase. :O)








At 02:34 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:

> >>
> >> These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> >> to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> >> url is necessary. Sure you could write more code to do this but why
> >> not just do it right the first time instead of doing all of this
> >> extra coding just because you can?
> >>
> >>
>print stylesheets *do* exist. :)
>
>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 4:40PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

What is wrong with using the article title as the link?

I have a WordPress site at www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
that uses the title of the article as the link. Is that what you mean?






At 02:26 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>I guess it's reverse discrimination, but only if you're saying that all
>people need to have access to all things at all times. My site has a
>French translation, but users in the English section can't read the
>French text because they have no reason to (switching between languages
>is done through a link on every page, so they can if they really want to).
>
>Maybe we're talking about different things, though. If I use this method
>-- and I'm really thinking I will -- it won't be to abbreviate links or
>provide more complete descriptions for screen readers. It will be, as
>Donald says, to provide explanation that may not be needed otherwise.
>Right now the table of contents on my site has let's say 25 instances of
>a link with the text PDF. In context, that's fine, but in a list of
>links on a page it's entirely useless. As I understand it, screen
>readers aren't consistent in using the link title vs link text, so I
>make them the same.
>
>I haven't been able to think of a way to give each article's PDF link a
>distinct title without duplicating the text immediately preceding it, so
>until now I've sort of pretended the problem didn't exist. If there's
>another way to handle it (and abbreviating the title text isn't an
>option, since it's grabbed from a database and can be in three
>languages, two of which I'm not fluent in) then I'm willing to hear it,
>but it seems like hiding longer text would be a good option.
>
>Dan Conley
>Information Specialist
>Center for International Rehabilitation Research Information and
>Exchange (CIRRIE)
>University at Buffalo, Health Sciences Library B6
>Phone: (716) 829-3900 x145
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>http://cirrie.buffalo.edu
>
>Geof Collis wrote:
> > Ok, the more I think about this the less I understand.
> >
> > If I'm hiding something that only screen readers can see/hear isn't
> > that reverse discrimination because sighted people wont be able to read it?
> >
> >
> > At 09:31 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> >>> Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >>> These ideas sound good in principle but what happens if someone wants
> >>> to print off the page and take it to a presentation where the link
> >>> url is necessary.
> >>>
> >> You shouldn't use URLs as link text to begin with (and none of these
> >> examples do). If you want them to be printable then you can do
> this using a
> >> good print CSS although IEs support for that is somewhat lacking.
> >>

From: Dean Hamack
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 4:45PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

On 8/3/09 3:21 PM, "Geof Collis" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> But how many do create them?

You Google the term "print stylesheet" and follow the very simple
instructions. It's not rocket science.

From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Aug 03 2009 4:50PM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

You're a funny guuy, perhaps you should be a comedian.

At 05:55 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>Geof Collis wrote:
> > What happens if CSS and Images are turned off?
> >
> >
>Or the computer is without power? Have you thought of that situation?
>
>
>

From: Chris Hoffman
Date: Tue, Aug 04 2009 6:30AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Why do we (and WCAG) go out of our way to let users avoid context when
reading our pages? Is it because screen reader users can navigate by
running through a list of links? Well I (a sighted user) can do the
same thing by scanning the page, but I still need to go back and check
the context of a link before I click on it.

If we are to assume screen reader users ignore context, then we should
probably include hidden text with all pronouns to describe their (the
pronouns') referents, too.

Chris

On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:25 AM, "E.J. Zufelt" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Good morning,
>
> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> to hear them.
>
> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>
> Thanks,
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>

From: Léonie Watson
Date: Tue, Aug 04 2009 7:05AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

"Why do we (and WCAG) go out of our way to let users avoid context when reading our pages? Is it because screen reader users can navigate by running through a list of links? Well I (a sighted user) can do the same thing by scanning the page, but I still need to go back and check the context of a link before I click on it."

So you're saying you'd benefit from better (more context independent) link text too?


Regards,
Léonie.
--
Nomensa - humanising technology

Léonie Watson | Director of Accessibility
t. +44 (0)117 929 7333
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chris Hoffman
Sent: 04 August 2009 13:29
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Cc: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text


Why do we (and WCAG) go out of our way to let users avoid context when reading our pages? Is it because screen reader users can navigate by running through a list of links? Well I (a sighted user) can do the same thing by scanning the page, but I still need to go back and check the context of a link before I click on it.

If we are to assume screen reader users ignore context, then we should probably include hidden text with all pronouns to describe their (the
pronouns') referents, too.

Chris

On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:25 AM, "E.J. Zufelt" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Good morning,
>
> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> to hear them.
>
> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>
> Thanks,
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Tue, Aug 04 2009 7:10AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

Actually Chris, WCAG 2.0 provides for greater latitude here than was available in WCAG 1.0. At level A you could have the "buy" links that Don Evans described and not have "buy product X" be what is spoken. For level AAA you do, however.

2.4.4 Link Purpose (In Context): The purpose of each link can be determined from the link text alone or from the link text together with its programmatically determined link context, except where the purpose of the link would be ambiguous to users in general. (Level A)

2.4.9 Link Purpose (Link Only): A mechanism is available to allow the purpose of each link to be identified from link text alone, except where the purpose of the link would be ambiguous to users in general. (Level AAA)

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick

Senior Product Manager, Accessibility

Adobe Systems

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chris Hoffman
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 8:29 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Cc: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text


Why do we (and WCAG) go out of our way to let users avoid context when
reading our pages? Is it because screen reader users can navigate by
running through a list of links? Well I (a sighted user) can do the
same thing by scanning the page, but I still need to go back and check
the context of a link before I click on it.

If we are to assume screen reader users ignore context, then we should
probably include hidden text with all pronouns to describe their (the
pronouns') referents, too.

Chris

On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:25 AM, "E.J. Zufelt" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Good morning,
>
> Trying to build support for more meaningful link text in Drupal 7. To
> this end I am investigating using CSS to hide a portion of link text.
> If anyone has strong, or medium, feelings about this method I'd love
> to hear them.
>
> Also, wondering if anyone can point to examples of sites that are
> using WCAG 2.0 technique C7 - Using CSS to hide a portion of the link
> text - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/C7
>
> Thanks,
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>

From: Chris Hoffman
Date: Tue, Aug 04 2009 7:45AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | Next message →

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Léonie Watson< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>        So you're saying you'd benefit from better (more context independent) link text too?

Of course I would. Anybody would benefit. But that is a good argument
for _never_ hiding the extra descriptive text (though granted I was
questioning the existence of the extra description at all).

Chris

From: deblist@suberic.net
Date: Tue, Aug 04 2009 10:10AM
Subject: Re: Using CSS to hide a portion of the link text
← Previous message | No next message

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Chris Hoffman wrote:

>
> Why do we (and WCAG) go out of our way to let users avoid context when
> reading our pages? Is it because screen reader users can navigate by
> running through a list of links? Well I (a sighted user) can do the
> same thing by scanning the page, but I still need to go back and check
> the context of a link before I click on it.

Able-bodied users absolutely benefit from more context-complete
link text. Anybody who's doing keyboard navigation (which I admit
only includes me because I have a disability, but includes plenty
of other people who just dislike mice) will benefit by being able
to do keyboard search ahead to the exact text of a link.
Moreover, anybody who has a reason to use the "display all links
on a page" functionality in most browsers will also benefit by
more context-completely text.

I think of it as a general universal design argument. If you are
putting in a lot of extra features to make context clear to your
disabled users, it's worth taking a moment to think about whether
or not your disabled users are the only people who need it.
Better link text helps everybody (except for lazy graphic
designers).

-Deborah