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Thread: "<label>" for search field
Number of posts in this thread: 14 (In chronological order)
From: Langum, Michael J
Date: Mon, May 17 2010 1:51PM
Subject: "<label>" for search field
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Our designers don't like the idea of the word "Search" just before our standard site "search" field. They feel that for sighted users, the placement just above the words "Advanced Search" in the upper right corner of the standard site-wide banner is a clear enough. And the use of "title" attribute in the actual <input> tag is good enough for screen reader users.
What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title" attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
<form action="search.asp" method="GET" name="gs" id="SearchForm">
<input name="q" id="q" title="Search the OPM Site" size="26" type="text">
<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Go">
</form>
-- Mike
From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, May 17 2010 2:18PM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
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On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Langum, Michael J wrote:
> What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title" attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
It is supported by all modern screen readers. There isn't anything
that requires or specifies that screen readers should read the title
attribute for form elements that are missing labels, but they all do.
I, personally, am a bit uncomfortable with this approach. According to
the HTML specification, the title attribute is for "advisory
information" - and if something is inaccessible without the title
value, this certainly seems to suggest that this information is more
than advisory.
I think a better approach is to provide a <label> in markup, but
position it off-screen with CSS
(http://webaim.org/techniques/css/invisiblecontent/).
You might also consider changing the button text of "Go" to something
more descriptive such as "Search" or "Submit Search".
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: ckrugman@sbcglobal.net
Date: Mon, May 17 2010 3:15PM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
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As a screen reader user the actual title is adequate. I find many of the
descriptive standards actually slow the process down of accessing content on
a web site and I generally ignore most of them.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 11:50 AM
Subject: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
> Our designers don't like the idea of the word "Search" just before our
> standard site "search" field. They feel that for sighted users, the
> placement just above the words "Advanced Search" in the upper right corner
> of the standard site-wide banner is a clear enough. And the use of
> "title" attribute in the actual <input> tag is good enough for screen
> reader users.
>
> What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title"
> attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
> <form action="search.asp" method="GET" name="gs" id="SearchForm">
> <input name="q" id="q" title="Search the OPM Site" size="26" type="text">
> <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Go">
> </form>
>
> -- Mike
>
>
From: Don Mauck
Date: Mon, May 17 2010 3:18PM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
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I as a screen reader, agree.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 2:17 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
As a screen reader user the actual title is adequate. I find many of the
descriptive standards actually slow the process down of accessing content on
a web site and I generally ignore most of them.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 11:50 AM
Subject: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
> Our designers don't like the idea of the word "Search" just before our
> standard site "search" field. They feel that for sighted users, the
> placement just above the words "Advanced Search" in the upper right corner
> of the standard site-wide banner is a clear enough. And the use of
> "title" attribute in the actual <input> tag is good enough for screen
> reader users.
>
> What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title"
> attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
> <form action="search.asp" method="GET" name="gs" id="SearchForm">
> <input name="q" id="q" title="Search the OPM Site" size="26" type="text">
> <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Go">
> </form>
>
> -- Mike
>
>
From: DAVOUD TOHIDY
Date: Mon, May 17 2010 10:33PM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
← Previous message | Next message →
> ... I find many of the descriptive standards actually slow the process down of accessing content on a web site and I generally ignore most of them.
> Chuck
Interesting. Could you please identify which descriptive standards slows down accessing the content?
>
From: Rakesh.Paladugula@cognizant.com
Date: Mon, May 17 2010 10:57PM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
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A screen reader recognises the title when the user navigate the page using tab. But a screen reader user in general uses arrow keys to navigate through the page. So, title alone does not serve the purpose. In such case give a label to the screen reader, as your designer don't want to appear on the screen hide it from the sited users.
Thanks & regards
Rakesh Paladugula
Accessibility Consultant
Cognizant Technology Solutions
From: Priti Rohra
Date: Tue, May 18 2010 1:51AM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
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Hi Mike,
Providing Title attribute is sufficient and it will be read out by a screen
reader irrespective of the navigation method opted by the user, i.e. Tab key
or Arrow keys. Also the Title attribute is sufficient as per WCAG 2.0
techniques.
Thanks & Regards,
Priti Rohra
Senior Accessibility Consultant
Net Systems Informatics (India) Pvt. Ltd. & BarrierBreak Technologies
Web: www.n-syst.com | www.barrierbreak.com
Blog: www.barrierbreak.com/blog
Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will preserve
trees on our planet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:20 AM
Subject: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
> Our designers don't like the idea of the word "Search" just before our
> standard site "search" field. They feel that for sighted users, the
> placement just above the words "Advanced Search" in the upper right corner
> of the standard site-wide banner is a clear enough. And the use of
> "title" attribute in the actual <input> tag is good enough for screen
> reader users.
>
> What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title"
> attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
> <form action="search.asp" method="GET" name="gs" id="SearchForm">
> <input name="q" id="q" title="Search the OPM Site" size="26" type="text">
> <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Go">
> </form>
>
> -- Mike
>
>
From: Steven Faulkner
Date: Tue, May 18 2010 4:00AM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
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The title attribute content on a form control is exposed as the
accessible name value by browsers in accessibility APIs such as MSAA
and IA2, this is the reason why that it is well supported by assistive
technology.
so as far as the browser is concerned
<input type="text" title="label">
<label for="lb">label</label> <input type="text" id="lb">
result in the same information being passed to the accessibility API.
issues occur when an author uses both:
<label for="lb">label</label> <input type="text" id="lb" title="label title">
As the <label> text is used for the accessible name and the title text
is used for the accessible description. The exposure of the text in
the accessible description is not so well supported by AT, for example
until recent versions JAWS did not provide access to this info and it
still only provides it on form controls.
This can be further complicated as AT may provide user preferences
that favour one (title/label) over the other or only announce one or
the other.
regards
stevef
On 18 May 2010 07:51, Priti Rohra < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Providing Title attribute is sufficient and it will be read out by a screen
> reader irrespective of the navigation method opted by the user, i.e. Tab key
> or Arrow keys. Also the Title attribute is sufficient as per WCAG 2.0
> techniques.
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> Priti Rohra
> Senior Accessibility Consultant
> Net Systems Informatics (India) Pvt. Ltd. & BarrierBreak Technologies
> Web: www.n-syst.com | www.barrierbreak.com
> Blog: www.barrierbreak.com/blog
>
> Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will preserve
> trees on our planet.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:20 AM
> Subject: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
>
>
>> Our designers don't like the idea of the word "Search" just before our
>> standard site "search" field. They feel that for sighted users, the
>> placement just above the words "Advanced Search" in the upper right corner
>> of the standard site-wide banner is a clear enough. And the use of
>> "title" attribute in the actual <input> tag is good enough for screen
>> reader users.
>>
>> What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title"
>> attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
>> <form action="search.asp" method="GET" name="gs" id="SearchForm">
>> <input name="q" id="q" title="Search the OPM Site" size="26" type="text">
>> <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Go">
>> </form>
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>>
From: Rakesh.Paladugula@cognizant.com
Date: Tue, May 18 2010 4:24AM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
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Hi Mike,
Title attribute is read when navigating through arrow keys in Microsoft explorer but its not similar when we go through the webpage in firefox. I have noticed JAWS 11 not reading title in firefox when I tried to navigate the page using firefox with arrow keys. When I use tab key JAWS is reading title in both the browsers.
When we speak about WCAG 2.0 guidelines, According to guideline 2.4.6 Headings and labels describe topic or purpose and a level AA priority. Labels are given where ever user interaction is required. In this scenario search text box is a user interacting element.
According to guideline 3.3.2, labels or instructions are provided when user input is required which is a level A priority. Usually using "title" we wont give instructions so labels are mandetary.
Even if we evaluate the page in automated testing tools such as web AIM's Wave tool, we encounter an accessibility error if we don't provide label for form elements.
I have provided the info basing on JAWS 11, internet explorer 6 and firefox 3.5. Feel free to write back for any further clarification.
Thanks & regards
Rakesh Paladugula
Cognizant Technology Solutions
Mob: 9030497136
From: Steven Faulkner
Date: Tue, May 18 2010 5:03AM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Rakesh,
> Title attribute is read when navigating through arrow keys in Microsoft explorer but its not similar when we go through the webpage in firefox. I have noticed >JAWS 11 not reading title in firefox when I tried to navigate the page using firefox with arrow keys. When I use tab key JAWS is reading title in both the >browsers.
both firefox and internet explorer expose the title attribute content
as the accessible name via accessibility APIs, so it is a bug in JAWS
if it does not announce the accessible name of the text box in firefox
when using the arrow keys in virtul PC cursor mode. window eyes
announces the name without issue in both IE and FF
> Even if we evaluate the page in automated testing tools such as web AIM's Wave tool, we encounter an accessibility error if we don't provide label for form elements.
Wave is not infallible.
regards
stevef
On 18 May 2010 10:24, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Title attribute is read when navigating through arrow keys in Microsoft explorer but its not similar when we go through the webpage in firefox. I have noticed JAWS 11 not reading title in firefox when I tried to navigate the page using firefox with arrow keys. When I use tab key JAWS is reading title in both the browsers.
>
> When we speak about WCAG 2.0 guidelines, According to guideline 2.4.6 Headings and labels describe topic or purpose and a level AA priority. Labels are given where ever user interaction is required. In this scenario search text box is a user interacting element.
>
> According to guideline 3.3.2, labels or instructions are provided when user input is required which is a level A priority. Usually using "title" we wont give instructions so labels are mandetary.
>
> Even if we evaluate the page in automated testing tools such as web AIM's Wave tool, we encounter an accessibility error if we don't provide label for form elements.
>
> I have provided the info basing on JAWS 11, internet explorer 6 and firefox 3.5. Feel free to write back for any further clarification.
>
> Thanks & regards
>
> Rakesh Paladugula
>
> Cognizant Technology Solutions
>
> Mob: 9030497136
>
>
From: Jared Smith
Date: Tue, May 18 2010 7:18AM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
← Previous message | Next message →
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:24 AM, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Even if we evaluate the page in automated testing tools such as web AIM's Wave tool, we encounter an accessibility error if we don't provide label for form elements.
WAVE displays an error if you provide neither a label nor a title
attribute. If you have no label, but do have a title attribute, WAVE
displays an alert (not an error) that prompts you to ensure that the
title attribute is descriptive and appropriate. It is one of the few
accessibility tools that makes this allowance.
Jared
From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Tue, May 18 2010 7:42AM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
← Previous message | Next message →
If I were in this situation, I would probably ask the designers why they
don't like adding the label. It might give you insights into how they
determine a design is clear enough and if they think there is such a
thing as too much clarity.
The fact is it is easy enough to make this design accessible. However,
the extra knowledge might allow you to explain how accessibility should
fit into their thoughts about what makes a design clear or
understandable. That then may make things easier to resolve in the
future when they want to use a design which you can't make accessible.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Langum,
Michael J
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 1:51 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
Our designers don't like the idea of the word "Search" just before our
standard site "search" field. They feel that for sighted users, the
placement just above the words "Advanced Search" in the upper right
corner of the standard site-wide banner is a clear enough. And the use
of "title" attribute in the actual <input> tag is good enough for screen
reader users.
What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title"
attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
<form action="search.asp" method="GET" name="gs" id="SearchForm">
<input name="q" id="q" title="Search the OPM Site" size="26"
type="text">
<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Go">
</form>
-- Mike
From: Nancy Johnson
Date: Tue, May 18 2010 10:54AM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
← Previous message | Next message →
I understood that the "title" was OK if there was no other way to
label. I had a situation a few years ago, within an area of the form
where the user could select "Add a Second Item". If this button was
selected an exact copy of the original field was created dynamically.
I tried to see if we could dynamically create a unique ID when
multiple fields were created, but that wasn't possible, so I used the
title tag instead
Nancy
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Tim Harshbarger
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> If I were in this situation, I would probably ask the designers why they
> don't like adding the label. It might give you insights into how they
> determine a design is clear enough and if they think there is such a
> thing as too much clarity.
>
> The fact is it is easy enough to make this design accessible. However,
> the extra knowledge might allow you to explain how accessibility should
> fit into their thoughts about what makes a design clear or
> understandable. That then may make things easier to resolve in the
> future when they want to use a design which you can't make accessible.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Langum,
> Michael J
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 1:51 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
>
> Our designers don't like the idea of the word "Search" just before our
> standard site "search" field. They feel that for sighted users, the
> placement just above the words "Advanced Search" in the upper right
> corner of the standard site-wide banner is a clear enough. And the use
> of "title" attribute in the actual <input> tag is good enough for screen
> reader users.
>
> What is the groups thinking on the adequacy of relying solely on "title"
> attributes to give a prompt for the standard site search field?
> <form action="search.asp" method="GET" name="gs" id="SearchForm">
> <input name="q" id="q" title="Search the OPM Site" size="26"
> type="text">
> <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Go">
> </form>
>
> -- Mike
>
>
From: ckrugman@sbcglobal.net
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 4:12PM
Subject: Re: "<label>" for search field
← Previous message | No next message
anhything that iis repetitive to the text. headers that are the same as the
text below it in general. Remember that screen readers don't discriminate in
what they read on a page so when something is repeated multiple times as it
appears multiple times it slows down access.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVOUD TOHIDY" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "webaim forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] "<label>" for search field
>
>
>> ... I find many of the descriptive standards actually slow the process
>> down of accessing content on a web site and I generally ignore most of
>> them.
>> Chuck
>
> Interesting. Could you please identify which descriptive standards slows
> down accessing the content?
>
>
>
>
>>