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Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Mon, Jul 11 2011 3:21PM
Subject: PDFs and JAWS
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Hi,

I've noticed that when I listen to a PDF using JAWS, it generally reads one
line at a time instead of one sentence at a time (or until a certain number
of characters have been read). Is this expected Adobe Reader behavior, or is
there a way to create a PDF so that it reads more like a web page?

For example, if there is a PDF formatted like this:

Temperatures in the Northeast (pause)
will rise into the 80s and 90s, (pause)
and into the 90s and 100s in (pause)
the Southeast. Temperatures (pause)
in the Southern Plains and the (pause)
Southwest will rise into the 90s (pause)
and 100s, and into the 80s in (pause)
the Northwest. (pause)

JAWS will pause at the end of each line and wait for the user to hit the
down arrow before reading the next line. I have indicated this by putting
the word "pause" at the end of each line.

Is there a way for me to format the PDF so that it reads entire sentences
without pausing for line breaks?

Thanks,
David

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Mon, Jul 11 2011 3:27PM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
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David,

If the PDF is correctly tagged, you should get each paragraph without pauses.

If the PDF hasn't been tagged, or is tagged poorly, then the text-stream delivered to you as an AT user is a crapshoot in the first instance.

In such cases, if you are lucky enough to ONLY suffer pauses, consider yourself fortunate!

Duff Johnson

US Committee for ISO/DIS 14289 (PDF/UA), Chair

p +1 617.283.4226
e = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
t http://www.twitter.com/duffjohnson
w http://www.duff-johnson.com


On Jul 11, 2011, at 5:21 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've noticed that when I listen to a PDF using JAWS, it generally reads one
> line at a time instead of one sentence at a time (or until a certain number
> of characters have been read). Is this expected Adobe Reader behavior, or is
> there a way to create a PDF so that it reads more like a web page?
>
> For example, if there is a PDF formatted like this:
>
> Temperatures in the Northeast (pause)
> will rise into the 80s and 90s, (pause)
> and into the 90s and 100s in (pause)
> the Southeast. Temperatures (pause)
> in the Southern Plains and the (pause)
> Southwest will rise into the 90s (pause)
> and 100s, and into the 80s in (pause)
> the Northwest. (pause)
>
> JAWS will pause at the end of each line and wait for the user to hit the
> down arrow before reading the next line. I have indicated this by putting
> the word "pause" at the end of each line.
>
> Is there a way for me to format the PDF so that it reads entire sentences
> without pausing for line breaks?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Mon, Jul 11 2011 3:33PM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
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Yes, and there is a way to make a web page read like the bad behavior you describe also. The PDF probably has each phrase tagged as a separate paragraph - tagged correctly, it would read as you prefer.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://twitter.com/awkawk
http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Mon, Jul 11 2011 4:30PM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
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The PDF is tagged. I don't have a copy that I can show you right now,
unfortunately. But using the text I wrote earlier as an example, that whole
paragraph shows up in the tag tree as one paragraph. When I choose the
"Highlight Content" option for the Tags, and then click on that paragraph in
the tag tree, the whole paragraph highlights in the document.

However, when I listen to it with JAWS 12, it pauses at the end of each
line, even though the whole thing is all in one paragraph tag.

Note: no pausing occurs when I tell JAWS to just read the entire document
from top to bottom. It does that fine. This only occurs when I start at the
top of the PDF and navigate through the document using the Down Arrow.

Thanks,
David

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> David,
>
> If the PDF is correctly tagged, you should get each paragraph without
> pauses.
>
> If the PDF hasn't been tagged, or is tagged poorly, then the text-stream
> delivered to you as an AT user is a crapshoot in the first instance.
>
> In such cases, if you are lucky enough to ONLY suffer pauses, consider
> yourself fortunate!
>
> Duff Johnson
>
> US Committee for ISO/DIS 14289 (PDF/UA), Chair
>
> p +1 617.283.4226
> e = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> t http://www.twitter.com/duffjohnson
> w http://www.duff-johnson.com
>
>

From: Patrick Burke
Date: Mon, Jul 11 2011 5:00PM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
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Reading by sentence is a Jaws feature. I think that's what you're
after anyway...

For a quick test:

Insert+V for Jaws (verbosity) options:
Way down under SayAll Options you have:

... Reads by line without pauses (that's the default I get); Reads by
sentence; Reads by Paragraph; Reads by line without pauses.

That should change the behavior. It can be changed permanently
(globally or stored separately for each application) under Jaws,
Utilities > Settings Center.

Patrick


At 03:29 PM 7/11/2011, David Ashleydale wrote:
>The PDF is tagged. I don't have a copy that I can show you right now,
>unfortunately. But using the text I wrote earlier as an example, that whole
>paragraph shows up in the tag tree as one paragraph. When I choose the
>"Highlight Content" option for the Tags, and then click on that paragraph in
>the tag tree, the whole paragraph highlights in the document.
>
>However, when I listen to it with JAWS 12, it pauses at the end of each
>line, even though the whole thing is all in one paragraph tag.
>
>Note: no pausing occurs when I tell JAWS to just read the entire document
>from top to bottom. It does that fine. This only occurs when I start at the
>top of the PDF and navigate through the document using the Down Arrow.
>
>Thanks,
>David
>
>On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > If the PDF is correctly tagged, you should get each paragraph without
> > pauses.
> >
> > If the PDF hasn't been tagged, or is tagged poorly, then the text-stream
> > delivered to you as an AT user is a crapshoot in the first instance.
> >
> > In such cases, if you are lucky enough to ONLY suffer pauses, consider
> > yourself fortunate!
> >
> > Duff Johnson
> >
> > US Committee for ISO/DIS 14289 (PDF/UA), Chair
> >
> > p +1 617.283.4226
> > e = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > t http://www.twitter.com/duffjohnson
> > w http://www.duff-johnson.com
> >
> >
>

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Mon, Jul 11 2011 5:06PM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →

I've attached a simple PDF I just made that demonstrates this. There is only
one paragraph in the document and it has been tagged as a paragraph.

I have JAWS 12 on and I go to the top of the page. I hit Down Arrow and it
reads the first line. It stops reading at the line break and waits for me to
hit the Down Arrow again before continuing.

Is this the normal default behavior, or is there a different way I need to
tag the PDF so that it doesn't stop reading at the end of the line in the
middle of a sentence?

Thanks,
David

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 3:29 PM, David Ashleydale < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> The PDF is tagged. I don't have a copy that I can show you right now,
> unfortunately. But using the text I wrote earlier as an example, that whole
> paragraph shows up in the tag tree as one paragraph. When I choose the
> "Highlight Content" option for the Tags, and then click on that paragraph in
> the tag tree, the whole paragraph highlights in the document.
>
> However, when I listen to it with JAWS 12, it pauses at the end of each
> line, even though the whole thing is all in one paragraph tag.
>
> Note: no pausing occurs when I tell JAWS to just read the entire document
> from top to bottom. It does that fine. This only occurs when I start at the
> top of the PDF and navigate through the document using the Down Arrow.
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> If the PDF is correctly tagged, you should get each paragraph without
>> pauses.
>>
>> If the PDF hasn't been tagged, or is tagged poorly, then the text-stream
>> delivered to you as an AT user is a crapshoot in the first instance.
>>
>> In such cases, if you are lucky enough to ONLY suffer pauses, consider
>> yourself fortunate!
>>
>> Duff Johnson
>>
>> US Committee for ISO/DIS 14289 (PDF/UA), Chair
>>
>> p +1 617.283.4226
>> e = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> t http://www.twitter.com/duffjohnson
>> w http://www.duff-johnson.com
>>
>>

From: Keith
Date: Mon, Jul 11 2011 5:30PM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →

Actually, if you're simply arrowing down, you'll only be reading one
line for each press of the arrow key.

If you want to read the entire paragraph at one press of a key, you'll
need to use the key combination: ctrl+down arrow. If the pdf is
formatted correctly, you can also try the single Jaws hot key of "P", to
move by paragraph.

If you want to read by sentence, try: alt+down arrow. Although, I have
mixed luck with that one, but it's supposed to work.

from
Keith H


On 7/11/2011 6:02 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> I've attached a simple PDF I just made that demonstrates this. There is only
> one paragraph in the document and it has been tagged as a paragraph.
>
> I have JAWS 12 on and I go to the top of the page. I hit Down Arrow and it
> reads the first line. It stops reading at the line break and waits for me to
> hit the Down Arrow again before continuing.
>
> Is this the normal default behavior, or is there a different way I need to
> tag the PDF so that it doesn't stop reading at the end of the line in the
> middle of a sentence?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 3:29 PM, David Ashleydale< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> The PDF is tagged. I don't have a copy that I can show you right now,
>> unfortunately. But using the text I wrote earlier as an example, that whole
>> paragraph shows up in the tag tree as one paragraph. When I choose the
>> "Highlight Content" option for the Tags, and then click on that paragraph in
>> the tag tree, the whole paragraph highlights in the document.
>>
>> However, when I listen to it with JAWS 12, it pauses at the end of each
>> line, even though the whole thing is all in one paragraph tag.
>>
>> Note: no pausing occurs when I tell JAWS to just read the entire document
>> from top to bottom. It does that fine. This only occurs when I start at the
>> top of the PDF and navigate through the document using the Down Arrow.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Duff Johnson< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> If the PDF is correctly tagged, you should get each paragraph without
>>> pauses.
>>>
>>> If the PDF hasn't been tagged, or is tagged poorly, then the text-stream
>>> delivered to you as an AT user is a crapshoot in the first instance.
>>>
>>> In such cases, if you are lucky enough to ONLY suffer pauses, consider
>>> yourself fortunate!
>>>
>>> Duff Johnson
>>>
>>> US Committee for ISO/DIS 14289 (PDF/UA), Chair
>>>
>>> p +1 617.283.4226
>>> e = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> t http://www.twitter.com/duffjohnson
>>> w http://www.duff-johnson.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Tue, Jul 12 2011 11:30AM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →

Great, thanks! I wasn't aware that arrowing down was a different behavior in
PDFs than web sites.

So the conclusion is that the PDF is tagged correctly -- I just need to
navigate it in a different way than I was doing it. Ctrl+Down Arrow worked
perfectly.

Thanks!
David

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Keith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Actually, if you're simply arrowing down, you'll only be reading one
> line for each press of the arrow key.
>
> If you want to read the entire paragraph at one press of a key, you'll
> need to use the key combination: ctrl+down arrow. If the pdf is
> formatted correctly, you can also try the single Jaws hot key of "P", to
> move by paragraph.
>
> If you want to read by sentence, try: alt+down arrow. Although, I have
> mixed luck with that one, but it's supposed to work.
>
> from
> Keith H
>
>
> On 7/11/2011 6:02 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> > I've attached a simple PDF I just made that demonstrates this. There is
> only
> > one paragraph in the document and it has been tagged as a paragraph.
> >
> > I have JAWS 12 on and I go to the top of the page. I hit Down Arrow and
> it
> > reads the first line. It stops reading at the line break and waits for me
> to
> > hit the Down Arrow again before continuing.
> >
> > Is this the normal default behavior, or is there a different way I need
> to
> > tag the PDF so that it doesn't stop reading at the end of the line in the
> > middle of a sentence?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 3:29 PM, David Ashleydale< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >wrote:
> >
> >> The PDF is tagged. I don't have a copy that I can show you right now,
> >> unfortunately. But using the text I wrote earlier as an example, that
> whole
> >> paragraph shows up in the tag tree as one paragraph. When I choose the
> >> "Highlight Content" option for the Tags, and then click on that
> paragraph in
> >> the tag tree, the whole paragraph highlights in the document.
> >>
> >> However, when I listen to it with JAWS 12, it pauses at the end of each
> >> line, even though the whole thing is all in one paragraph tag.
> >>
> >> Note: no pausing occurs when I tell JAWS to just read the entire
> document
> >> from top to bottom. It does that fine. This only occurs when I start at
> the
> >> top of the PDF and navigate through the document using the Down Arrow.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Duff Johnson< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> David,
> >>>
> >>> If the PDF is correctly tagged, you should get each paragraph without
> >>> pauses.
> >>>
> >>> If the PDF hasn't been tagged, or is tagged poorly, then the
> text-stream
> >>> delivered to you as an AT user is a crapshoot in the first instance.
> >>>
> >>> In such cases, if you are lucky enough to ONLY suffer pauses, consider
> >>> yourself fortunate!
> >>>
> >>> Duff Johnson
> >>>
> >>> US Committee for ISO/DIS 14289 (PDF/UA), Chair
> >>>
> >>> p +1 617.283.4226
> >>> e = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >>> t http://www.twitter.com/duffjohnson
> >>> w http://www.duff-johnson.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>

From: ckrugman
Date: Sun, Jul 31 2011 11:27PM
Subject: Re: PDFs and JAWS
← Previous message | No next message

this could be caused by the version of JAWSs that is being used or the
settings used regarding how JAWS reads the document. When you open a PDF
file with JAWS there are several choices for the JAWS user to determine how
the document is read. These choices should be experimented with when
difficulty arises in reading a PDF document. The later versions of JAWS have
markedly improved in the handling of PDF files.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ashleydale" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: [WebAIM] PDFs and JAWS


> Hi,
>
> I've noticed that when I listen to a PDF using JAWS, it generally reads
> one
> line at a time instead of one sentence at a time (or until a certain
> number
> of characters have been read). Is this expected Adobe Reader behavior, or
> is
> there a way to create a PDF so that it reads more like a web page?
>
> For example, if there is a PDF formatted like this:
>
> Temperatures in the Northeast (pause)
> will rise into the 80s and 90s, (pause)
> and into the 90s and 100s in (pause)
> the Southeast. Temperatures (pause)
> in the Southern Plains and the (pause)
> Southwest will rise into the 90s (pause)
> and 100s, and into the 80s in (pause)
> the Northwest. (pause)
>
> JAWS will pause at the end of each line and wait for the user to hit the
> down arrow before reading the next line. I have indicated this by putting
> the word "pause" at the end of each line.
>
> Is there a way for me to format the PDF so that it reads entire sentences
> without pausing for line breaks?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>