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From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Aug 02 2011 11:45AM
Subject: Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site or a problem with Jaws?
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Hello everyone

A shortcut question (I have not analyzed this code, I am coming up to
speed with ARIA specifications, but I am as curious as George).
The following page has an "expand/collapse" text link (Javascript I assume)
http://www.ncsu.edu/grad/tuition-residency/
I have also seen this elsewhere.
Expanding the text is no problem at all, but the problem is that Jaws
will not tell me whether said text is expanded or not i.e. the state
of the link is not announced.
Is this a lack of ARIA implementation or is this something that is
available, but Jaws does not pick up on?
Thanks
-Birkir

From: DANIEL.KINNUNEN
Date: Wed, Aug 03 2011 4:39PM
Subject: Re: Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site or a problem with Jaws?
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Hi Birkir,

The link you provide points to a really good example of what not to do on a web page, for many reasons.

For your specific question, the problem you see is an authoring problem with the expandable text section. The expand/collapse control on the page is not using ARIA.

Visually, the control is an image of a plus sign when the section is collapsed, or a minus sign when the section is expanded. JavaScript is used to show or hide the section, and toggle the image from plus to minus. However, the script does not change the alt text for the image to indicate whether the section is currently expanded or collapsed. (The script could easily be changed to fix that problem.)

In theory, you could ARIA be used to provide the same indication. Of course, it would need to be toggled in the JavaScript also. And I have not seen great screen reader support yet for ARIA implementations of expandable sections, at least for examples I've seen. Maybe others have found better examples.

Dan Kinnunen

From: Donald Evans
Date: Thu, Aug 04 2011 8:45AM
Subject: Re: Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site or a problem with Jaws?
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Here is one way to do it:
http://websiteaccessibility.donaldevans.com/?p=174



On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:38 PM, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi Birkir,
>
> The link you provide points to a really good example of what not to do on a
> web page, for many reasons.
>
> For your specific question, the problem you see is an authoring problem
> with the expandable text section. The expand/collapse control on the page is
> not using ARIA.
>
> Visually, the control is an image of a plus sign when the section is
> collapsed, or a minus sign when the section is expanded. JavaScript is used
> to show or hide the section, and toggle the image from plus to minus.
> However, the script does not change the alt text for the image to indicate
> whether the section is currently expanded or collapsed. (The script could
> easily be changed to fix that problem.)
>
> In theory, you could ARIA be used to provide the same indication. Of
> course, it would need to be toggled in the JavaScript also. And I have not
> seen great screen reader support yet for ARIA implementations of expandable
> sections, at least for examples I've seen. Maybe others have found better
> examples.
>
> Dan Kinnunen
>
>

From: YOUNGV5
Date: Thu, Aug 04 2011 9:03AM
Subject: Re: Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site or a problem with Jaws?
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Donald, if I have time today, I will try to put an example together as
well. Have you considered using the aria-controls attribute?

Vincent Young
User Experience, Web Accessibility Specialist
Nationwide Corporate Marketing
Nationwide®
o | 614·677·5094
c | 614·607·3400
e | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =




From:
Donald Evans < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To:
WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Date:
08/04/2011 10:45 AM
Subject:
Re: [WebAIM] Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site
or a problem with Jaws?
Sent by:
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =



Here is one way to do it:
http://websiteaccessibility.donaldevans.com/?p=174



On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:38 PM, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi Birkir,
>
> The link you provide points to a really good example of what not to do
on a
> web page, for many reasons.
>
> For your specific question, the problem you see is an authoring problem
> with the expandable text section. The expand/collapse control on the
page is
> not using ARIA.
>
> Visually, the control is an image of a plus sign when the section is
> collapsed, or a minus sign when the section is expanded. JavaScript is
used
> to show or hide the section, and toggle the image from plus to minus.
> However, the script does not change the alt text for the image to
indicate
> whether the section is currently expanded or collapsed. (The script
could
> easily be changed to fix that problem.)
>
> In theory, you could ARIA be used to provide the same indication. Of
> course, it would need to be toggled in the JavaScript also. And I have
not
> seen great screen reader support yet for ARIA implementations of
expandable
> sections, at least for examples I've seen. Maybe others have found
better
> examples.
>
> Dan Kinnunen
>
>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Aug 04 2011 9:33AM
Subject: Re: Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site or a problem with Jaws?
← Previous message | Next message →

Donald

Oddly enough my Jaws 12 (12.00.167) with IE9 (I was silly enough to
leave my Windows UPdate on and IE was updated, either without me
knowing, or by me accidnetally clicking "ok" when prompted). Anyway,
this combination crashes instantly when I click the button to collapse
the control. I tried it twice, with same results. I suspect IE9/Jaws
combination is to blame and I see there is a Jaws update available
(1169).
So this may be something particular to my machine, but at least you
know there is a potential for user issues.
I will keep testing, NVDA/Firefox etc.
Thanks for the information y'all, this is very educational.


On 8/4/11, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Donald, if I have time today, I will try to put an example together as
> well. Have you considered using the aria-controls attribute?
>
> Vincent Young
> User Experience, Web Accessibility Specialist
> Nationwide Corporate Marketing
> Nationwide®
> o | 614·677·5094
> c | 614·607·3400
> e | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
> From:
> Donald Evans < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To:
> WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Date:
> 08/04/2011 10:45 AM
> Subject:
> Re: [WebAIM] Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site
> or a problem with Jaws?
> Sent by:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
> Here is one way to do it:
> http://websiteaccessibility.donaldevans.com/?p=174
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:38 PM, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Hi Birkir,
>>
>> The link you provide points to a really good example of what not to do
> on a
>> web page, for many reasons.
>>
>> For your specific question, the problem you see is an authoring problem
>> with the expandable text section. The expand/collapse control on the
> page is
>> not using ARIA.
>>
>> Visually, the control is an image of a plus sign when the section is
>> collapsed, or a minus sign when the section is expanded. JavaScript is
> used
>> to show or hide the section, and toggle the image from plus to minus.
>> However, the script does not change the alt text for the image to
> indicate
>> whether the section is currently expanded or collapsed. (The script
> could
>> easily be changed to fix that problem.)
>>
>> In theory, you could ARIA be used to provide the same indication. Of
>> course, it would need to be toggled in the JavaScript also. And I have
> not
>> seen great screen reader support yet for ARIA implementations of
> expandable
>> sections, at least for examples I've seen. Maybe others have found
> better
>> examples.
>>
>> Dan Kinnunen
>>
>>

From: David Farough
Date: Thu, Aug 04 2011 10:24AM
Subject: Re: Is this a problem with ARIA implementation on authoring site or a problem with Jaws?
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Donald:
I tried this example using Jaws 12.0.1269 (current version) and
Internet explorer 8.

When I activated the button the focus moved to the heading as
intended.

When I moved back to the button to collapse the text Jaws did not
correctly report the updated state of the button when I collapsed the
text. I had to update the virtual buffer by pressing Insert plus
escape. This is a common problem unfortunately.

This did however work with this version of jaws with Firefox 4.0.1



David Farough
Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
Information Technology Services Directorate /
Direction des services d'information technologiques
Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779

>>> Donald Evans < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 10:44 AM Thursday, August 04,
2011 >>>
Here is one way to do it:
http://websiteaccessibility.donaldevans.com/?p=174


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