WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Thread: Complex Tables on PDFs

for

Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: Rabab Gomaa
Date: Thu, Oct 17 2013 1:32PM
Subject: Complex Tables on PDFs
No previous message | Next message →

Hello,=20
=20
I didn't see in the PDF WCAG techniques any example on coding ID/headers =
in a PDF.=20
Does this mean that ID/headers are not required for complex tables in =
PDF? using TR,TH,TD structure is enough?
=20
Rabab

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Thu, Oct 17 2013 1:43PM
Subject: Re: Complex Tables on PDFs
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Rabab,

tagged PDF does support IDs and headers to express complex table cell relationships.

In Acrobat Pro it is possible in principle (but not in an elegant or efficient fashion) to create IDs for table cells and to referenced them in header entries in other cells. I do not know pif anybody who has actually used this in production (it is just too cumbersome).

For InDesign CS 5.5 and newer axaio (the company I work for) has created a plug-in called MadeToTag (for fully functional demos see www.axaio.com), which makes it relatively easy to prepare complex tables for export to tagged PDF, such that MadeToTag post-processes the InDesign exported PDF and injects the necessary IDs and headers into the table structures.

If I am not mistaken the axesPDF plug-in (developed by xyMedia, www.xymedia.ch) for Microsoft Word offers a similar feature for PDFs created in Microsoft Word.


To the best of my knowledge, for complex tables that do have non-trivial column and/or row headers, IDs and headers would be the only way to tag them properly.


Olaf


Am 17 Oct 2013 um 21:32 schrieb Rabab Gomaa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> I didn't see in the PDF WCAG techniques any example on coding ID/headers in a PDF.
> Does this mean that ID/headers are not required for complex tables in PDF? using TR,TH,TD structure is enough?

From: Kroon, Kurtis
Date: Fri, Oct 18 2013 12:20PM
Subject: Re: Complex Tables on PDFs
← Previous message | Next message →

Another alternative, which we recommend to our content providers, is to simplify the table -- breaking it up into several tables, if necessary -- so that it only requires headers with a defined scope.

Of course, it doesn't always work that way, but we do try.

Thanks!

Kurtis Kroon
Analyst, Web Business Services
Franchise Tax Board
916·845·5603


From: Whitney Quesenbery
Date: Fri, Oct 18 2013 12:38PM
Subject: Re: Complex Tables on PDFs
← Previous message | Next message →

Kurtis,
That's a great point. I often work with teams to simplify their content
into plainer language and clearer presentation. It works for everyone AND
makes it easier to make documents technically accessible in any medium.

I talk about it as "Content for Everyone" and find that I get more traction
that way.

http://www.slideshare.net/whitneyq/content-for-everyone-20599326



On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Kroon, Kurtis@FTB
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Another alternative, which we recommend to our content providers, is to
> simplify the table -- breaking it up into several tables, if necessary --
> so that it only requires headers with a defined scope.
>
> Of course, it doesn't always work that way, but we do try.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kurtis Kroon
> Analyst, Web Business Services
> Franchise Tax Board
> 916·845·5603
>
>
>

From: Rabab Gomaa
Date: Fri, Oct 18 2013 12:48PM
Subject: Re: Complex Tables on PDFs
← Previous message | Next message →

Hello,=20
=20
I find those pages provide good examples of table simplification.=20
http://wet-boew.github.io/wet-boew/demos/opt-cont/tbl-simp-en.html
http://webaim.org/techniques/tables/data=20
=20
Rabab
>>> Whitney Quesenbery <whitneyq=40gmail.com> 2013-10-18 2:38 PM >>>
Kurtis,
That=27s a great point. I often work with teams to simplify their
content
into plainer language and clearer presentation. It works for everyone
AND
makes it easier to make documents technically accessible in any
medium.

I talk about it as =22Content for Everyone=22 and find that I get more
traction
that way.

http://www.slideshare.net/whitneyq/content-for-everyone-20599326



On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Kroon, Kurtis=40FTB
<Kurtis.Kroon=40ftb.ca.gov>wrote:

> Another alternative, which we recommend to our content providers, is
to
> simplify the table -- breaking it up into several tables, if
necessary --
> so that it only requires headers with a defined scope.
>
> Of course, it doesn=27t always work that way, but we do try.
>
> Thanks=21
>
> Kurtis Kroon
> Analyst, Web Business Services
> Franchise Tax Board
> 916=C2=B7845=C2=B75603
>
>
>

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Fri, Oct 18 2013 2:04PM
Subject: Re: Complex Tables on PDFs
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Rabab,

Am 18 Oct 2013 um 20:48 schrieb Rabab Gomaa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> I find those pages provide good examples of table simplification.
> http://wet-boew.github.io/wet-boew/demos/opt-cont/tbl-simp-en.html

to my taste this is taking accessibility too far in many cases - once simplified in this fashion, the tables tend to become much less usable for many users.

Tables are a valid presentational concept, regardless of ability and disability. Where information is related in complex ways, tables might be the only efficient means for presentation. Splitting a complex table into a bunch of less complex tables can make it more difficult to read and understand such information. Tables express relationship between data or information inside it, splitting tables discards some of these relationship aspects, or makes it more cumbersome to retrieve them.

Whenever a discussion like this comes up I wonder why assistive technology does not come up with approaches of simplified presentation of tables. The principles explained on the page mentioned above can be applied on the fly by a tool like a screen reader (but also by a viewer on a mobile phone with its small display). Why are we not asking more from the tools we use, instead of applying violence to content and its most efficient form of presentation.

Disclaimer: As always, tables like any other type of content or presentation need to have their target audience in mind. Some complex tables will never work for their indented audience, and might have to be simplified in one way or another.


Olaf