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Thread: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?

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Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Mon, Dec 05 2011 8:27AM
Subject: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?
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Hi all

I am working with a library page (in Icelandic admittedly).
The page is
http://hbleit.bbi.is/

To get a sample of a table, type in "Auel" (or any other author you
fancy) in the search field and hit enter (leit = search).
The resulting interface table is a bit clumsy but it does work.
There is a lot of "fancy" drag and drop functionality going on, but
there is sufficient keyboard support to get it done.
The problem I am having with this, and the users complain about, is
that the word "clickable" is read for practically every column,
because there is an onMouseDown event associated with almost every
column and value.
When an Icelandic tts voice is used, but the word clickable is not
translated, you end up with a minor, but irritating user distraction.
I have looked at accessibility commentary for "onMouseDown" but it
only suggest implementing appropriate keyboard support, which is not
the issue, but I can't find anywhere how one could prevent it from
being "vissible" to the screen readers.

Is it possible to either use a different type of event, use ARIa to
hide this functionality, or would you simply recommend a more major
overhaul of how this search result table is implemented?
(the last 3 columns in the result table have options like "add to wish
list" "download" and "order on cd").
We have the vendors attention at the moment, especially for small
accessibility repairs.
I know, in the perfect world, this whole set up should be recoded, and
it is on the agenda for next year, but if there is a quickish type of
fix that could be implemented to prevent the word "clickable" from
being read constantly, it would be a feather in my cap and no misatke.
Thanks all.
-Birkir

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Mon, Dec 05 2011 8:54AM
Subject: Re: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?
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Hi Burkir,
had a look at the page,
I believe that the 'clickable' announcement is due to the inline
onclick event handler on the table:

onclick="aspxGVTableClick('ctl00_MainContent_panelLeit_gvBookSearch', event);"

screen readers I have tested (jaws amd NVDA) only announce the
presence of an onclick when the event handler is added inline

<div onclick="javascript"> some text </div>

if the event is registered via scripting it is not picked up by screen
readers and not announced. For example using
'element.addEventListener'
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element.addEventListener

regards
Stevef


On 5 December 2011 15:25, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I am working with a library page (in Icelandic admittedly).
> The page is
> http://hbleit.bbi.is/
>
> To get a sample of a table, type in "Auel" (or any other author you
> fancy) in the search field and hit enter (leit = search).
> The resulting interface table is a bit clumsy but it does work.
> There is a lot of "fancy" drag and drop functionality going on, but
> there is sufficient keyboard support to get it done.
> The problem I am having with this, and the users complain about, is
> that the word "clickable" is read for practically every column,
> because there is an onMouseDown event associated with almost every
> column and value.
> When an Icelandic tts voice is used, but the word clickable is not
> translated, you end up with a minor, but irritating user distraction.
> I have looked at accessibility commentary for "onMouseDown" but it
> only suggest implementing appropriate keyboard support, which is not
> the issue, but I can't find anywhere how one could prevent it from
> being "vissible" to the screen readers.
>
> Is it possible to either use a different type of event, use ARIa to
> hide this functionality, or would you simply recommend a more major
> overhaul of how this search result table is implemented?
> (the last 3 columns in the result table have options like "add to wish
> list" "download" and "order on cd").
> We have the vendors attention at the moment, especially for small
> accessibility repairs.
> I know, in the perfect world, this whole set up should be recoded, and
> it is on the agenda for next year, but if there is a quickish type of
> fix that could be implemented to prevent the word "clickable" from
> being read constantly, it would be a feather in my cap and no misatke.
> Thanks all.
> -Birkir
>

From: Ro
Date: Mon, Dec 05 2011 11:00AM
Subject: Re: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?
← Previous message | Next message →

From a screen reader user's standpoint, using Voiceover, I can change the verbosity settings to eliminate the word clickable. Unfortunately, getting rid of this word eliminates other useful words for me, so it would be great if there's a fix. However I encounter the word on nearly every website I access.

I just wanted to offer that point of view because in my opinion, it's not always the developers' responsibility to eliminate things, especially if they are necessary, if we as screen reader users, can change it.

~Ro

On Dec 5, 2011, at 8:25 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I am working with a library page (in Icelandic admittedly).
> The page is
> http://hbleit.bbi.is/
>
> To get a sample of a table, type in "Auel" (or any other author you
> fancy) in the search field and hit enter (leit = search).
> The resulting interface table is a bit clumsy but it does work.
> There is a lot of "fancy" drag and drop functionality going on, but
> there is sufficient keyboard support to get it done.
> The problem I am having with this, and the users complain about, is
> that the word "clickable" is read for practically every column,
> because there is an onMouseDown event associated with almost every
> column and value.
> When an Icelandic tts voice is used, but the word clickable is not
> translated, you end up with a minor, but irritating user distraction.
> I have looked at accessibility commentary for "onMouseDown" but it
> only suggest implementing appropriate keyboard support, which is not
> the issue, but I can't find anywhere how one could prevent it from
> being "vissible" to the screen readers.
>
> Is it possible to either use a different type of event, use ARIa to
> hide this functionality, or would you simply recommend a more major
> overhaul of how this search result table is implemented?
> (the last 3 columns in the result table have options like "add to wish
> list" "download" and "order on cd").
> We have the vendors attention at the moment, especially for small
> accessibility repairs.
> I know, in the perfect world, this whole set up should be recoded, and
> it is on the agenda for next year, but if there is a quickish type of
> fix that could be implemented to prevent the word "clickable" from
> being read constantly, it would be a feather in my cap and no misatke.
> Thanks all.
> -Birkir
>

From: Jim Allan
Date: Mon, Dec 05 2011 12:09PM
Subject: Re: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?
← Previous message | Next message →

If you find a way eliminate the word 'clickable' you have also removed a
primary way that the screen reader user knows that an action can be
performed at a particular location. Perhaps you could make these table
headers actual links with some javascript attached that does the sorting
(that would substitute 1 syllable 'link' for 3 syllables 'click-a-ble').
Also, the sort functions would show up in a links list and the user would
know the range of functions that are possible in the table (most users know
how to get a links list). Though the latest version of Jaws has a 'list of
clickable' elements your average user is not likely to have Jaws 13 nor
know the command (insert-control-slash)

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> From a screen reader user's standpoint, using Voiceover, I can change the
> verbosity settings to eliminate the word clickable. Unfortunately, getting
> rid of this word eliminates other useful words for me, so it would be great
> if there's a fix. However I encounter the word on nearly every website I
> access.
>
> I just wanted to offer that point of view because in my opinion, it's not
> always the developers' responsibility to eliminate things, especially if
> they are necessary, if we as screen reader users, can change it.
>
> ~Ro
>
> On Dec 5, 2011, at 8:25 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > I am working with a library page (in Icelandic admittedly).
> > The page is
> > http://hbleit.bbi.is/
> >
> > To get a sample of a table, type in "Auel" (or any other author you
> > fancy) in the search field and hit enter (leit = search).
> > The resulting interface table is a bit clumsy but it does work.
> > There is a lot of "fancy" drag and drop functionality going on, but
> > there is sufficient keyboard support to get it done.
> > The problem I am having with this, and the users complain about, is
> > that the word "clickable" is read for practically every column,
> > because there is an onMouseDown event associated with almost every
> > column and value.
> > When an Icelandic tts voice is used, but the word clickable is not
> > translated, you end up with a minor, but irritating user distraction.
> > I have looked at accessibility commentary for "onMouseDown" but it
> > only suggest implementing appropriate keyboard support, which is not
> > the issue, but I can't find anywhere how one could prevent it from
> > being "vissible" to the screen readers.
> >
> > Is it possible to either use a different type of event, use ARIa to
> > hide this functionality, or would you simply recommend a more major
> > overhaul of how this search result table is implemented?
> > (the last 3 columns in the result table have options like "add to wish
> > list" "download" and "order on cd").
> > We have the vendors attention at the moment, especially for small
> > accessibility repairs.
> > I know, in the perfect world, this whole set up should be recoded, and
> > it is on the agenda for next year, but if there is a quickish type of
> > fix that could be implemented to prevent the word "clickable" from
> > being read constantly, it would be a feather in my cap and no misatke.
> > Thanks all.
> > -Birkir
> >

From: Vincent Young
Date: Mon, Dec 05 2011 12:18PM
Subject: Re: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?
← Previous message | Next message →

I would consider adding role="button". I know the function is obvious to
most but I've never liked links used in this way.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> If you find a way eliminate the word 'clickable' you have also removed a
> primary way that the screen reader user knows that an action can be
> performed at a particular location. Perhaps you could make these table
> headers actual links with some javascript attached that does the sorting
> (that would substitute 1 syllable 'link' for 3 syllables 'click-a-ble').
> Also, the sort functions would show up in a links list and the user would
> know the range of functions that are possible in the table (most users know
> how to get a links list). Though the latest version of Jaws has a 'list of
> clickable' elements your average user is not likely to have Jaws 13 nor
> know the command (insert-control-slash)
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > From a screen reader user's standpoint, using Voiceover, I can change the
> > verbosity settings to eliminate the word clickable. Unfortunately,
> getting
> > rid of this word eliminates other useful words for me, so it would be
> great
> > if there's a fix. However I encounter the word on nearly every website I
> > access.
> >
> > I just wanted to offer that point of view because in my opinion, it's not
> > always the developers' responsibility to eliminate things, especially if
> > they are necessary, if we as screen reader users, can change it.
> >
> > ~Ro
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2011, at 8:25 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > I am working with a library page (in Icelandic admittedly).
> > > The page is
> > > http://hbleit.bbi.is/
> > >
> > > To get a sample of a table, type in "Auel" (or any other author you
> > > fancy) in the search field and hit enter (leit = search).
> > > The resulting interface table is a bit clumsy but it does work.
> > > There is a lot of "fancy" drag and drop functionality going on, but
> > > there is sufficient keyboard support to get it done.
> > > The problem I am having with this, and the users complain about, is
> > > that the word "clickable" is read for practically every column,
> > > because there is an onMouseDown event associated with almost every
> > > column and value.
> > > When an Icelandic tts voice is used, but the word clickable is not
> > > translated, you end up with a minor, but irritating user distraction.
> > > I have looked at accessibility commentary for "onMouseDown" but it
> > > only suggest implementing appropriate keyboard support, which is not
> > > the issue, but I can't find anywhere how one could prevent it from
> > > being "vissible" to the screen readers.
> > >
> > > Is it possible to either use a different type of event, use ARIa to
> > > hide this functionality, or would you simply recommend a more major
> > > overhaul of how this search result table is implemented?
> > > (the last 3 columns in the result table have options like "add to wish
> > > list" "download" and "order on cd").
> > > We have the vendors attention at the moment, especially for small
> > > accessibility repairs.
> > > I know, in the perfect world, this whole set up should be recoded, and
> > > it is on the agenda for next year, but if there is a quickish type of
> > > fix that could be implemented to prevent the word "clickable" from
> > > being read constantly, it would be a feather in my cap and no misatke.
> > > Thanks all.
> > > -Birkir
> > >

From: James Nurthen
Date: Mon, Dec 05 2011 1:12PM
Subject: Re: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?
← Previous message | Next message →

Birkir,

Assuming you are using JAWS, you can change what is said in the JAWS
"Speech and Sounds" settings.
On the HTML tab you can change the text that is read for a number of
different attributes, play a sound instead for certain attributes, or turn
off certain attributes individually.

Regards,
James

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 07:25, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I am working with a library page (in Icelandic admittedly).
> The page is
> http://hbleit.bbi.is/
>
> To get a sample of a table, type in "Auel" (or any other author you
> fancy) in the search field and hit enter (leit = search).
> The resulting interface table is a bit clumsy but it does work.
> There is a lot of "fancy" drag and drop functionality going on, but
> there is sufficient keyboard support to get it done.
> The problem I am having with this, and the users complain about, is
> that the word "clickable" is read for practically every column,
> because there is an onMouseDown event associated with almost every
> column and value.
> When an Icelandic tts voice is used, but the word clickable is not
> translated, you end up with a minor, but irritating user distraction.
> I have looked at accessibility commentary for "onMouseDown" but it
> only suggest implementing appropriate keyboard support, which is not
> the issue, but I can't find anywhere how one could prevent it from
> being "vissible" to the screen readers.
>
> Is it possible to either use a different type of event, use ARIa to
> hide this functionality, or would you simply recommend a more major
> overhaul of how this search result table is implemented?
> (the last 3 columns in the result table have options like "add to wish
> list" "download" and "order on cd").
> We have the vendors attention at the moment, especially for small
> accessibility repairs.
> I know, in the perfect world, this whole set up should be recoded, and
> it is on the agenda for next year, but if there is a quickish type of
> fix that could be implemented to prevent the word "clickable" from
> being read constantly, it would be a feather in my cap and no misatke.
> Thanks all.
> -Birkir
>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Mon, Dec 05 2011 1:30PM
Subject: Re: screen readers constantly saying "clickable" with onMouseDown Javascript in a table, is there a better design recommendation for this?
← Previous message | No next message

Thanks everyone for valuable contributions.
This website is frequented by users using Jaws, NvDA, and various
versions of Hal&Supernova. Users] technical ability varies widely, so
I want to be able to provide a way to turn off this "distaction" for
them, in other words, changing speech settings, though a valuable
tool, is not good here.
I agree that this provides information that is useful.
Perhaps I can leave this info for the column titles (the header row),
but the results themselves should not hae "clickable" associated with
them.
I like the idea of using role = button
for the 3 actions a user can perform
(hala ni[ur, b;ta 'a minnislista, and, panta 'a disk).
I don't like this graphics link combination, and it distracts users as well.
I presume it is enough to just add this and then the links will appear
as buttons to the users, I can easily test this with Jaws and NVDA.
Again, thanks all.


On 12/5/11, James Nurthen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Birkir,
>
> Assuming you are using JAWS, you can change what is said in the JAWS
> "Speech and Sounds" settings.
> On the HTML tab you can change the text that is read for a number of
> different attributes, play a sound instead for certain attributes, or turn
> off certain attributes individually.
>
> Regards,
> James
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 07:25, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I am working with a library page (in Icelandic admittedly).
>> The page is
>> http://hbleit.bbi.is/
>>
>> To get a sample of a table, type in "Auel" (or any other author you
>> fancy) in the search field and hit enter (leit = search).
>> The resulting interface table is a bit clumsy but it does work.
>> There is a lot of "fancy" drag and drop functionality going on, but
>> there is sufficient keyboard support to get it done.
>> The problem I am having with this, and the users complain about, is
>> that the word "clickable" is read for practically every column,
>> because there is an onMouseDown event associated with almost every
>> column and value.
>> When an Icelandic tts voice is used, but the word clickable is not
>> translated, you end up with a minor, but irritating user distraction.
>> I have looked at accessibility commentary for "onMouseDown" but it
>> only suggest implementing appropriate keyboard support, which is not
>> the issue, but I can't find anywhere how one could prevent it from
>> being "vissible" to the screen readers.
>>
>> Is it possible to either use a different type of event, use ARIa to
>> hide this functionality, or would you simply recommend a more major
>> overhaul of how this search result table is implemented?
>> (the last 3 columns in the result table have options like "add to wish
>> list" "download" and "order on cd").
>> We have the vendors attention at the moment, especially for small
>> accessibility repairs.
>> I know, in the perfect world, this whole set up should be recoded, and
>> it is on the agenda for next year, but if there is a quickish type of
>> fix that could be implemented to prevent the word "clickable" from
>> being read constantly, it would be a feather in my cap and no misatke.
>> Thanks all.
>> -Birkir
>>