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Number of posts in this thread: 17 (In chronological order)

From: Tony Olivero
Date: Tue, Feb 05 2013 11:26PM
Subject: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
No previous message | Next message →

All:



Is there any information to support whether an indication of link, "opens in
new window" indicator is useful to people with disabilities who are not
blind? Discussing the usefulness of this indicator with a group who is
wondering if it matters to any users who are not blind.



Thanks for your thoughts.



Tony

From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 12:06AM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

If a link opens the target page in a new window or a new tab, the browsing context changes. The user may not have noticed this change and may try to use the browser's "back" button to reach the page he came from - which will not work. So I reckon it is certainly useful also to sighted users to indicate that change if it needs to happen.
Cheers,
Detlev

On 6 Feb 2013, at 07:26, Tony Olivero wrote:

> All:
>
>
>
> Is there any information to support whether an indication of link, "opens in
> new window" indicator is useful to people with disabilities who are not
> blind? Discussing the usefulness of this indicator with a group who is
> wondering if it matters to any users who are not blind.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
> > > --
Detlev Fischer
testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestraße 2
22767 Hamburg

Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5

http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 1:51AM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

On 06/02/2013 06:26, Tony Olivero wrote:
> Is there any information to support whether an indication of link, "opens in
> new window" indicator is useful to people with disabilities who are not
> blind? Discussing the usefulness of this indicator with a group who is
> wondering if it matters to any users who are not blind.

See "Understanding SC 3.2.2 - Specific Benefits of Success Criterion
3.2.2"
http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/consistent-behavior-unpredictable-change.html
for some info (although the SC is about form controls, it does cover
"changes of context" which, in the definitions
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/#context-changedef does explicitly mention
links opening in new windows).

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Steve Green
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 2:53AM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator fornon-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

We often see this problem during user testing, particularly with people using screen magnification, because they usually cannot see that a new tab or window has opened. I have also worked with a fully-sighted dyslexic girl who freaks out any time something happens that she is not expecting, such as popups or new windows.

Steve Green

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Detlev Fischer
Sent: 06 February 2013 07:06
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness

If a link opens the target page in a new window or a new tab, the browsing context changes. The user may not have noticed this change and may try to use the browser's "back" button to reach the page he came from - which will not work. So I reckon it is certainly useful also to sighted users to indicate that change if it needs to happen.
Cheers,
Detlev

On 6 Feb 2013, at 07:26, Tony Olivero wrote:

> All:
>
>
>
> Is there any information to support whether an indication of link,
> "opens in new window" indicator is useful to people with disabilities
> who are not blind? Discussing the usefulness of this indicator with a
> group who is wondering if it matters to any users who are not blind.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

--
Detlev Fischer
testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese c/o feld.wald.wiese Thedestraße 2
22767 Hamburg

Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5

http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites

From: Shuttlesworth, Rachel
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 7:53AM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

We deal with some tools that will only open in a new window (links housed
within our learning management system to PDF articles or third party
tools). What would be recommended in this case? What are some of the best
(most accessible to the most users) ways to indicate that a new window
will appear when you click a link?

Rachel

Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
Director, Emerging Instructional Technology
Center for Instructional Technology
University of Alabama







On 02/06/13 3:53 AM, "Steve Green" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>We often see this problem during user testing, particularly with people
>using screen magnification, because they usually cannot see that a new
>tab or window has opened. I have also worked with a fully-sighted
>dyslexic girl who freaks out any time something happens that she is not
>expecting, such as popups or new windows.
>
>Steve Green
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Detlev Fischer
>Sent: 06 February 2013 07:06
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for
>non-blindness
>
>If a link opens the target page in a new window or a new tab, the
>browsing context changes. The user may not have noticed this change and
>may try to use the browser's "back" button to reach the page he came from
>- which will not work. So I reckon it is certainly useful also to sighted
>users to indicate that change if it needs to happen.
>Cheers,
>Detlev
>
>On 6 Feb 2013, at 07:26, Tony Olivero wrote:
>
>> All:
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any information to support whether an indication of link,
>> "opens in new window" indicator is useful to people with disabilities
>> who are not blind? Discussing the usefulness of this indicator with a
>> group who is wondering if it matters to any users who are not blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>--
>Detlev Fischer
>testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese c/o
>feld.wald.wiese Thedestraße 2
>22767 Hamburg
>
>Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
>Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
>Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
>http://www.testkreis.de
>Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
>
>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>

From: Denis Boudreau
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 7:58AM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

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From: Joe Chidzik
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 8:17AM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

> We deal with some tools that will only open in a new window (links housed
> within our learning management system to PDF articles or third party tools).
> What would be recommended in this case? What are some of the best (most
> accessible to the most users) ways to indicate that a new window will appear
> when you click a link?
>
> Rachel

[Joe Chidzik] Wikipedia uses a neat system of icons to indicate links that lead to external sites. This would be beneficial for indicating both links that open in a new window, and links that lead to a PDFWord doc etc.

Typically the title attribute is used to indicate when a link opens in a new window, however this is only really accessible to sighted mouse users when they hover the mouse over the link in question. Using an icon to indicate a new window link has several advantages:
i) It is clearly visible for sighted users
ii) It can have alt text assigned for screenreader users (Screenreaders will often not read out the title attribute on links unless the user explicitly requests it, but they will read alt text as a matter of course)
iii) the use of icons can particularly be beneficial for users with cognitive disabilities who may, as Detlev pointed out, find new windows being opened disorienting. You could, as well, use a PDF or Word icon to indicate when links lead to a document of this type.

An example of coding a link with an image in this way might be:
<a href="www.somesite.org">My website<img src="icons/new_window.png" alt="New window"></a>

--
Joe

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 3:49PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

If there is going to be information alerting the user that a new
window is going to open, and especially if you're going to have a lot
of such links on a page (such as a page of resources), please please
try not to start each link with "opens in a new window." "New
window" is at least shorter.

If there are a handful in a row, that's not such a big deal, I think.


But imagine if I used a list of links and that's what I heard for
each link for 20 or 50, in a row? And imagine how many links would
start with first letter "O" (for "Opens") in the list?

In an ideal world, it'd be great to indicate this after the words of
the link text.

That's my two cents, anyway. My ears and brain thank you for
considering audio overload.

Best,
Jennifer

From: Pamela Riesmeyer
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 4:10PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

I frequently need to explain why we recommend against opening new windows
arbitrarily and this is useful information.

For the occasion when we still want to allow a link to open a new tab, we
have borrowed a technique that we had seen on Glenda Watson Hyatt's
blog<http://blogaccessibility.com/who-says-accessible-web-design-is-boring-announcing-new-windows-with-trendy-style/>;.
Our Web coordinator turned it into a WordPress plugin / widget and we can
include it on any given site in our WordPress multi-site installation as we
have in the sidebar of our site on Web
Accessibility<http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility/>;
.

We have tested it and we *think *it works well. It puts the "opens in new
window" at the end of the link, and it's visible for keyboard navigators as
well. As always, we're open to better ideas.

Thanks,
Pam


On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> If there is going to be information alerting the user that a new
> window is going to open, and especially if you're going to have a lot
> of such links on a page (such as a page of resources), please please
> try not to start each link with "opens in a new window." "New
> window" is at least shorter.
>
> If there are a handful in a row, that's not such a big deal, I think.
>
>
> But imagine if I used a list of links and that's what I heard for
> each link for 20 or 50, in a row? And imagine how many links would
> start with first letter "O" (for "Opens") in the list?
>
> In an ideal world, it'd be great to indicate this after the words of
> the link text.
>
> That's my two cents, anyway. My ears and brain thank you for
> considering audio overload.
>
> Best,
> Jennifer
>
> > > >



--

Pamela Riesmeyer
Web Accessibility Coordinator
Purdue University Calumet
219-989-2731/219-730-2751
SKYPE: pamela.riesmeyer
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web Site: http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility
<http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility>;

From: Len Burns
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 4:27PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator fornon-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

From the usability side, I would agree with the below, and also with
Jennifer's preference for shortening to "New Window" In my experience,
placing this following the link is much less intrusive. When it precedes
the link, it pulls my attention from the text of the link itself. When it
follows it is ancillary.

-Len
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Pamela Riesmeyer
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 3:11 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for
non-blindness

I frequently need to explain why we recommend against opening new windows
arbitrarily and this is useful information.

For the occasion when we still want to allow a link to open a new tab, we
have borrowed a technique that we had seen on Glenda Watson Hyatt's
blog<http://blogaccessibility.com/who-says-accessible-web-design-is-boring-a
nnouncing-new-windows-with-trendy-style/>.
Our Web coordinator turned it into a WordPress plugin / widget and we can
include it on any given site in our WordPress multi-site installation as we
have in the sidebar of our site on Web
Accessibility<http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility/>;
.

We have tested it and we *think *it works well. It puts the "opens in new
window" at the end of the link, and it's visible for keyboard navigators as
well. As always, we're open to better ideas.

Thanks,
Pam


On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> If there is going to be information alerting the user that a new
> window is going to open, and especially if you're going to have a lot
> of such links on a page (such as a page of resources), please please
> try not to start each link with "opens in a new window." "New
> window" is at least shorter.
>
> If there are a handful in a row, that's not such a big deal, I think.
>
>
> But imagine if I used a list of links and that's what I heard for
> each link for 20 or 50, in a row? And imagine how many links would
> start with first letter "O" (for "Opens") in the list?
>
> In an ideal world, it'd be great to indicate this after the words of
> the link text.
>
> That's my two cents, anyway. My ears and brain thank you for
> considering audio overload.
>
> Best,
> Jennifer
>
> > > >



--

Pamela Riesmeyer
Web Accessibility Coordinator
Purdue University Calumet
219-989-2731/219-730-2751
SKYPE: pamela.riesmeyer
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web Site: http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility
<http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility>;

From: Don Mauck
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 5:12PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

I'd say the same would be true if you had "new window," many, many times. I understand that sometimes especially in tables that have the same link but the table is different like (Accounts Payable) (Accounts receivable) it's ok to have "account number," as maybe a detail link. But I don't get why if you're going to have links that take you to a new window, why you can't put the "opens a new window," or "new Window" after the actual name of the link. Maybe I missed part of this thread but that's how I see it, especially from a links list perspective.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Sutton [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 3:50 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List; WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness

If there is going to be information alerting the user that a new window is going to open, and especially if you're going to have a lot of such links on a page (such as a page of resources), please please try not to start each link with "opens in a new window." "New window" is at least shorter.

If there are a handful in a row, that's not such a big deal, I think.


But imagine if I used a list of links and that's what I heard for each link for 20 or 50, in a row? And imagine how many links would start with first letter "O" (for "Opens") in the list?

In an ideal world, it'd be great to indicate this after the words of the link text.

That's my two cents, anyway. My ears and brain thank you for considering audio overload.

Best,
Jennifer

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 5:15PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

Here here I second and third this. Most important thing said here is front
end load the most important information about the link wear it goes is
secondary

Lucia Greco
Web Access Analyst
IST-Campus Technology Services
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jennifer Sutton
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:50 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List; WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for
non-blindness

If there is going to be information alerting the user that a new
window is going to open, and especially if you're going to have a lot
of such links on a page (such as a page of resources), please please
try not to start each link with "opens in a new window." "New
window" is at least shorter.

If there are a handful in a row, that's not such a big deal, I think.


But imagine if I used a list of links and that's what I heard for
each link for 20 or 50, in a row? And imagine how many links would
start with first letter "O" (for "Opens") in the list?

In an ideal world, it'd be great to indicate this after the words of
the link text.

That's my two cents, anyway. My ears and brain thank you for
considering audio overload.

Best,
Jennifer

From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 7:02PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

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cmcK

From: Howard Kramer
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 7:27PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Pam,

Looks like an eloquent solution. I may try to incorporate it in my
WordPress sites. I try not to have links open in new windows but when I do
I've used the "(opens in new window)" following the link.

-Howard

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Pamela Riesmeyer
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> I frequently need to explain why we recommend against opening new windows
> arbitrarily and this is useful information.
>
> For the occasion when we still want to allow a link to open a new tab, we
> have borrowed a technique that we had seen on Glenda Watson Hyatt's
> blog<
> http://blogaccessibility.com/who-says-accessible-web-design-is-boring-announcing-new-windows-with-trendy-style/
> >.
> Our Web coordinator turned it into a WordPress plugin / widget and we can
> include it on any given site in our WordPress multi-site installation as we
> have in the sidebar of our site on Web
> Accessibility<http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility/>;
> .
>
> We have tested it and we *think *it works well. It puts the "opens in new
> window" at the end of the link, and it's visible for keyboard navigators as
> well. As always, we're open to better ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Pam
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > If there is going to be information alerting the user that a new
> > window is going to open, and especially if you're going to have a lot
> > of such links on a page (such as a page of resources), please please
> > try not to start each link with "opens in a new window." "New
> > window" is at least shorter.
> >
> > If there are a handful in a row, that's not such a big deal, I think.
> >
> >
> > But imagine if I used a list of links and that's what I heard for
> > each link for 20 or 50, in a row? And imagine how many links would
> > start with first letter "O" (for "Opens") in the list?
> >
> > In an ideal world, it'd be great to indicate this after the words of
> > the link text.
> >
> > That's my two cents, anyway. My ears and brain thank you for
> > considering audio overload.
> >
> > Best,
> > Jennifer
> >
> > > > > > > >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Pamela Riesmeyer
> Web Accessibility Coordinator
> Purdue University Calumet
> 219-989-2731/219-730-2751
> SKYPE: pamela.riesmeyer
> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Web Site: http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility
> <http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility>;
> > > >



--
Howard Kramer
Conference Coordinator
Accessing Higher Ground
303-492-8672
cell: 720-351-8668

AHEAD Association of Higher Education and Disability

From: Pamela Riesmeyer
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2013 8:04PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks, Howard,
I'm trying to get the author to make the plugin available, to make
incorporating it easier, but so far, no luck!

Pam

On Feb 6, 2013, at 8:28 PM, Howard Kramer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi Pam,
>
> Looks like an eloquent solution. I may try to incorporate it in my
> WordPress sites. I try not to have links open in new windows but when I do
> I've used the "(opens in new window)" following the link.
>
> -Howard
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Pamela Riesmeyer
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> I frequently need to explain why we recommend against opening new windows
>> arbitrarily and this is useful information.
>>
>> For the occasion when we still want to allow a link to open a new tab, we
>> have borrowed a technique that we had seen on Glenda Watson Hyatt's
>> blog<
>> http://blogaccessibility.com/who-says-accessible-web-design-is-boring-announcing-new-windows-with-trendy-style/
>>> .
>> Our Web coordinator turned it into a WordPress plugin / widget and we can
>> include it on any given site in our WordPress multi-site installation as we
>> have in the sidebar of our site on Web
>> Accessibility<http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility/>;
>> .
>>
>> We have tested it and we *think *it works well. It puts the "opens in new
>> window" at the end of the link, and it's visible for keyboard navigators as
>> well. As always, we're open to better ideas.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Pam
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If there is going to be information alerting the user that a new
>>> window is going to open, and especially if you're going to have a lot
>>> of such links on a page (such as a page of resources), please please
>>> try not to start each link with "opens in a new window." "New
>>> window" is at least shorter.
>>>
>>> If there are a handful in a row, that's not such a big deal, I think.
>>>
>>>
>>> But imagine if I used a list of links and that's what I heard for
>>> each link for 20 or 50, in a row? And imagine how many links would
>>> start with first letter "O" (for "Opens") in the list?
>>>
>>> In an ideal world, it'd be great to indicate this after the words of
>>> the link text.
>>>
>>> That's my two cents, anyway. My ears and brain thank you for
>>> considering audio overload.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Jennifer
>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Pamela Riesmeyer
>> Web Accessibility Coordinator
>> Purdue University Calumet
>> 219-989-2731/219-730-2751
>> SKYPE: pamela.riesmeyer
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Web Site: http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility
>> <http://webs.purduecal.edu/webaccessibility>;
>> >> >> >
>
>
> --
> Howard Kramer
> Conference Coordinator
> Accessing Higher Ground
> 303-492-8672
> cell: 720-351-8668
>
> AHEAD Association of Higher Education and Disability
> > >

From: Don Mauck
Date: Thu, Feb 07 2013 1:27PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
← Previous message | Next message →

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dC53ZWJhaW0ub3JnCg=

From: Tony Olivero
Date: Sat, Feb 09 2013 8:40PM
Subject: Re: Usefulness of "Opens in New window" Indicator for non-blindness
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