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Thread: Keyboard navigation
Number of posts in this thread: 15 (In chronological order)
From: Don Mauck
Date: Thu, Jan 23 2014 1:35PM
Subject: Keyboard navigation
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Hi list -
I've had an interesting idea proposed to me. With the many folks that are =
not able to use a mouse, yet have no visual issues, wouldn't it be a great =
help if they had some of the same quick key navigation abilities such as ju=
mping from headings, button, check boxes, radio buttons etc. This would ce=
rtainly save the users a lot of tabbing and arrowing. Just imagine how muc=
h easier it would be for a user to bring up a list of headings, buttons etc=
. =20
As more folks get older and or have permanent wrist injuries, I think this =
kind of keyboard navigation would be quite popular. It seems like a screen=
reader company like FS or GW-micro would have a whole new market to tap in=
to. Any thoughts?
=20
--=20
Regards: Don Mauck -- Accessibility matters.
HYPERLINK "http://www.oracle.com/" nOracle
Don Mauck | Accessibility Evangelist
Phone: HYPERLINK "tel:+1%203033344184"+1 3033344184 | Mobile: HYPERLINK "te=
l:+1%203032171557"+1 3032171557=20
Oracle Accessibility Program Office
7604 Technology Way | Denver, Colorado 80237=20
HYPERLINK "http://www.oracle.com/commitment" nGreen Oracle
Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect =
the environment
=20
From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Thu, Jan 23 2014 2:56PM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
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Screen readers do have speech off mode that allow one to do this. The
free NVDA screen reader can help such users.
A decade ago IBM HPR also had this feature. JAWS too works with speech off.
Sailesh
On 1/23/14, Don Mauck < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi list -
>
> I've had an interesting idea proposed to me. With the many folks that are
> not able to use a mouse, yet have no visual issues, wouldn't it be a great
> help if they had some of the same quick key navigation abilities such as
> jumping from headings, button, check boxes, radio buttons etc. This would
> certainly save the users a lot of tabbing and arrowing. Just imagine how
> much easier it would be for a user to bring up a list of headings, buttons
> etc.
>
> As more folks get older and or have permanent wrist injuries, I think this
> kind of keyboard navigation would be quite popular. It seems like a screen
> reader company like FS or GW-micro would have a whole new market to tap in
> to. Any thoughts?
>
>
>
> --
> Regards: Don Mauck -- Accessibility matters.
>
> HYPERLINK "http://www.oracle.com/" nOracle
> Don Mauck | Accessibility Evangelist
> Phone: HYPERLINK "tel:+1%203033344184"+1 3033344184 | Mobile: HYPERLINK
> "tel:+1%203032171557"+1 3032171557
> Oracle Accessibility Program Office
> 7604 Technology Way | Denver, Colorado 80237
>
> HYPERLINK "http://www.oracle.com/commitment" nGreen Oracle
>
> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect
> the environment
>
>
>
From: Don Mauck
Date: Thu, Jan 23 2014 3:22PM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
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I understand that as screen reader myself, however, I'm not convinced that with speech off, the visual cursor would track correctly. I'll half to ask some of my visual friends.
From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 4:03AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
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Speech off has been built into SRs for the same reason for a long time now.
For some aspects, if visual cursor tracking does not work as intended,
that's a bug to be fixed.
But overall it is the solution you were hoping for as per your first email.
Thanks and regards,
Sailesh
On 1/23/14, Don Mauck < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I understand that as screen reader myself, however, I'm not convinced that
> with speech off, the visual cursor would track correctly. I'll half to ask
> some of my visual friends.
>
From: lists
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 6:07AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
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Sailesh,
While I agree that's a solution, I'm unsure if a general keyboard only user would aware of this. In fact why would they even think of a screen reader? Since we are all in the accessibility industry, we could think of cross disability and aware of AT features across.
Also, I'm not sure if screen reader vendors ever document with keywords of other disabilities.
Further, all they would need is a quick navigation feature and why would they need to install a screen reader that require investment of more space.
Can we think of a plugin that could just turn on quick navigation feature by pressing an access key?
Am I missing something?
Regards,
Srinivasu Chakravarthula | PayPal | @csrinivasu
Sent from my iPhone 5C
> On 24-Jan-2014, at 16:33, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Speech off has been built into SRs for the same reason for a long time now.
> For some aspects, if visual cursor tracking does not work as intended,
> that's a bug to be fixed.
> But overall it is the solution you were hoping for as per your first email.
> Thanks and regards,
> Sailesh
>
>> On 1/23/14, Don Mauck < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> I understand that as screen reader myself, however, I'm not convinced that
>> with speech off, the visual cursor would track correctly. I'll half to ask
>> some of my visual friends.
>>
From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 7:00AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello Srinivasu,
At least one browser (Opera) did permit heading navigation from the
keyboard ... I suppose that is more robust now ... no personal
experience there.
My responses are in the context of the thought in the first email.
And in that context I said that SRs do allow one to work with speech off.
Sure one can have a user agent that allows keyboard navigation in a
manner that is as robust as SRs allow with no speech funtctionality at
all.
Sailesh
On 1/24/14, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Sailesh,
> While I agree that's a solution, I'm unsure if a general keyboard only user
> would aware of this. In fact why would they even think of a screen reader?
> Since we are all in the accessibility industry, we could think of cross
> disability and aware of AT features across.
>
> Also, I'm not sure if screen reader vendors ever document with keywords of
> other disabilities.
>
> Further, all they would need is a quick navigation feature and why would
> they need to install a screen reader that require investment of more space.
>
>
> Can we think of a plugin that could just turn on quick navigation feature by
> pressing an access key?
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Regards,
> Srinivasu Chakravarthula | PayPal | @csrinivasu
> Sent from my iPhone 5C
>
>> On 24-Jan-2014, at 16:33, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Speech off has been built into SRs for the same reason for a long time
>> now.
>> For some aspects, if visual cursor tracking does not work as intended,
>> that's a bug to be fixed.
>> But overall it is the solution you were hoping for as per your first
>> email.
>> Thanks and regards,
>> Sailesh
>>
>>> On 1/23/14, Don Mauck < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> I understand that as screen reader myself, however, I'm not convinced
>>> that
>>> with speech off, the visual cursor would track correctly. I'll half to
>>> ask
>>> some of my visual friends.
>>>
From: Don Mauck
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 8:04AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
I'm finding out that with a screen reader the sighted user is having issues with the cursor focus. It just seems to me that if we are really going to deal with disabilities, we need to deal with as many as we can. I just don't think it would be that difficult to have a small program that did what I proposed in my original message.
From: Bourne, Sarah (ITD)
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 9:31AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
Ideally, browsers should enhance their keyboard navigation options, rather than requiring an extra program. Here is an extension for Firefox, for example, that allows you to navigate by ARIA landmarks: https://github.com/davidtodd/landmarks. Having a widely used extension is one way of getting traction for adding a feature as a core function.
It works quite nicely. The "n" key moves focus to the next landmark, and the "p" key takes you to the previous one. When you press the key, it briefly makes a red outline around the area. From there, you can use the tab and/or arrow keys as usual.
If a page does not have ARIA landmarks, nothing happens.
sb
Sarah E. Bourne
Director of Assistive Technology &
Mass.Gov Chief Technology Strategist
Information Technology Division
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
617-626-4502
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.mass.gov/itd
From: lists
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 9:42AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Sailesh,
Nice to know about opera support. I'll try that out. Thank you for sharing.
Best regards,
Srinivasu Chakravarthula
Mobile: +91 990 081 0881
Website: http://www.srinivasu.org |http://sgaccessibility.com
Follow me on Twitter:http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu
Sr. Accessibility Lead at PayPal
Founder at Sai Gagan Accessibility Solutions
Hon. Joint Secretary at The National Association for the Blind, Karnataka Branch
http://about.me/srinivasuc
Sent from my iPhone 4S
> On 24-Jan-2014, at 19:30, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello Srinivasu,
> At least one browser (Opera) did permit heading navigation from the
> keyboard ... I suppose that is more robust now ... no personal
> experience there.
> My responses are in the context of the thought in the first email.
> And in that context I said that SRs do allow one to work with speech off.
> Sure one can have a user agent that allows keyboard navigation in a
> manner that is as robust as SRs allow with no speech funtctionality at
> all.
> Sailesh
>
>
>> On 1/24/14, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Sailesh,
>> While I agree that's a solution, I'm unsure if a general keyboard only user
>> would aware of this. In fact why would they even think of a screen reader?
>> Since we are all in the accessibility industry, we could think of cross
>> disability and aware of AT features across.
>>
>> Also, I'm not sure if screen reader vendors ever document with keywords of
>> other disabilities.
>>
>> Further, all they would need is a quick navigation feature and why would
>> they need to install a screen reader that require investment of more space.
>>
>>
>> Can we think of a plugin that could just turn on quick navigation feature by
>> pressing an access key?
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Srinivasu Chakravarthula | PayPal | @csrinivasu
>> Sent from my iPhone 5C
>>
>>> On 24-Jan-2014, at 16:33, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Speech off has been built into SRs for the same reason for a long time
>>> now.
>>> For some aspects, if visual cursor tracking does not work as intended,
>>> that's a bug to be fixed.
>>> But overall it is the solution you were hoping for as per your first
>>> email.
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> Sailesh
>>>
>>>> On 1/23/14, Don Mauck < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>> I understand that as screen reader myself, however, I'm not convinced
>>>> that
>>>> with speech off, the visual cursor would track correctly. I'll half to
>>>> ask
>>>> some of my visual friends.
>>>>
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 10:18AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
Sara
What happens when user needs to use the n key when typing into a form
field on the page.
Basically, a keyboar navigation interface needs to allow for the
concept of interactive typing and filling in forms, similar to the
forms mode in screen readers.
I absolutely agree that browsers should offer up a more robust support
for keyboard only behavior.
I think that would be a fantastic addition for a lot of people, not
just with disabilities but frequent/power users of websites.
I know the traders at the investment bank I used to work for always
used a console mode app for trading stocks because using the keyboard
they could pull of trades much more quickly.
On 1/24/14, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Sailesh,
> Nice to know about opera support. I'll try that out. Thank you for sharing.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Srinivasu Chakravarthula
> Mobile: +91 990 081 0881
> Website: http://www.srinivasu.org |http://sgaccessibility.com
> Follow me on Twitter:http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu
>
> Sr. Accessibility Lead at PayPal
> Founder at Sai Gagan Accessibility Solutions
> Hon. Joint Secretary at The National Association for the Blind, Karnataka
> Branch
> http://about.me/srinivasuc
>
> Sent from my iPhone 4S
>
>> On 24-Jan-2014, at 19:30, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Srinivasu,
>> At least one browser (Opera) did permit heading navigation from the
>> keyboard ... I suppose that is more robust now ... no personal
>> experience there.
>> My responses are in the context of the thought in the first email.
>> And in that context I said that SRs do allow one to work with speech
>> off.
>> Sure one can have a user agent that allows keyboard navigation in a
>> manner that is as robust as SRs allow with no speech funtctionality at
>> all.
>> Sailesh
>>
>>
>>> On 1/24/14, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> Sailesh,
>>> While I agree that's a solution, I'm unsure if a general keyboard only
>>> user
>>> would aware of this. In fact why would they even think of a screen
>>> reader?
>>> Since we are all in the accessibility industry, we could think of cross
>>> disability and aware of AT features across.
>>>
>>> Also, I'm not sure if screen reader vendors ever document with keywords
>>> of
>>> other disabilities.
>>>
>>> Further, all they would need is a quick navigation feature and why would
>>> they need to install a screen reader that require investment of more
>>> space.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can we think of a plugin that could just turn on quick navigation feature
>>> by
>>> pressing an access key?
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Srinivasu Chakravarthula | PayPal | @csrinivasu
>>> Sent from my iPhone 5C
>>>
>>>> On 24-Jan-2014, at 16:33, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Speech off has been built into SRs for the same reason for a long time
>>>> now.
>>>> For some aspects, if visual cursor tracking does not work as intended,
>>>> that's a bug to be fixed.
>>>> But overall it is the solution you were hoping for as per your first
>>>> email.
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> Sailesh
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/23/14, Don Mauck < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>>> I understand that as screen reader myself, however, I'm not convinced
>>>>> that
>>>>> with speech off, the visual cursor would track correctly. I'll half
>>>>> to
>>>>> ask
>>>>> some of my visual friends.
>>>>>
From: Bourne, Sarah (ITD)
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 10:33AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
Birkir, when you have focus on a form field, the shortcuts do not work. It enters the letter n or p into the field, or jumps to that letter in a drop-list, etc. When you tab out of the form field, the shortcuts work again.
Sarah E. Bourne
Director of Assistive Technology &
Mass.Gov Chief Technology Strategist
Information Technology Division
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
617-626-4502
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.mass.gov/itd
From: deborah.kaplan
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 10:55AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
In opera, F9 is blur, so in a form field you can always use F9 to enter navigation mode and leave form mode.
The header navigation is great -- when it works. It has a tendency to be confused by some divs; sometimes it gets trapped. But I still use it frequently.
I sometimes use speech off NVDA for element navigation but unexpected things do happen with the viewable elements on the page. Plus reponse time is very slow. I agree that browser builtins or add-ons would be an easier way to handle this.
Deborah Kaplan
Accessibility Team Co-lead
Dreamwidth Studios
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014, Bourne, Sarah (ITD) wrote:
> Birkir, when you have focus on a form field, the shortcuts do not work. It enters the letter n or p into the field, or jumps to that letter in a drop-list, etc. When you tab out of the form field, the shortcuts work again.
>
> Sarah E. Bourne
> Director of Assistive Technology &
> Mass.Gov Chief Technology Strategist
> Information Technology Division
> Commonwealth of Massachusetts
> 1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
> 617-626-4502
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.mass.gov/itd
>
>
>
From: Paul J. Adam
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 11:10AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
I dont think my reply went through due to attaching screenshots, theyve been removed.
> Ive considered this idea as well as a method for non-mouse users to bypass repetitive blocks of content, i.e. no more need for a skip link.
>
> So if a keyboard-only user was on a Mac they could turn on VoiceOver and use the Headings quick navigation keys or navigate by other semantic elements. Lets say I press Control+Option+Command+H then I can cycle through all the headings but I cant just press TAB to get to the next link, you have to press VO+Command+L for link or arrow to it, once youre on a focusable element then you can start TABing around again.
>
> Unlike other screen readers, VoiceOver displays a visual Cursor (black outline) around the current screen reader focused element. This makes it a much more visual screen reader and helpful to keep track of where you are on the page. The speech output window (Caption Panel) can be enabled or disabled and the font size adjusted.
>
>
>
> I think VoiceOver for OS X would be great for keyboard-only users, learning/cognitive disabilities, deaf/HOH users doing accessibility testing. I think the other screen readers should have the ability to show your current focus and display the speech output in an adjustable size.
>
> Theres also plugins to enable ARIA Landmark keyboard navigation like this one:
> Enabling landmark-based keyboard navigation in Firefox
> http://blog.paciellogroup.com/2013/07/enabling-landmark-based-keyboard-navigation-in-firefox/
>
> The landmark plugin works great, you press n and p for next/previous landmarks, it flashes a temporary red outline around the current landmark and when you press TAB youll be on the next link inside that landmark.
>
>
>
> I agree that keyboard based quick navigation functionality should be built directly into the browsers then maybe skip links could be retired :)
>
> I think there may be some bug reports or feature requests in with some of the browser developers, heres the bug report for Firefox:
> Bug 670928 - HTML5 element and WAI-ARIA landmark roles easily navigable in Firefox
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928
>
> Its a good read!
> Check this out from Steve Faulkner:
> Concept for integrating keyboard navigation of HTML5 structural elements/ ARIA landmarks into Firefox
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/11yzSsHorM3mkG8fLk_etdY-jcpYjZIHAKT3qDzkuyMI/edit?pli=1
>
> Paul J. Adam
> Accessibility Evangelist
> www.deque.com
On Jan 24, 2014, at 11:55 AM, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
> In opera, F9 is blur, so in a form field you can always use F9 to enter navigation mode and leave form mode.
>
> The header navigation is great -- when it works. It has a tendency to be confused by some divs; sometimes it gets trapped. But I still use it frequently.
>
> I sometimes use speech off NVDA for element navigation but unexpected things do happen with the viewable elements on the page. Plus reponse time is very slow. I agree that browser builtins or add-ons would be an easier way to handle this.
>
> Deborah Kaplan
> Accessibility Team Co-lead
> Dreamwidth Studios
>
> On Fri, 24 Jan 2014, Bourne, Sarah (ITD) wrote:
>
>> Birkir, when you have focus on a form field, the shortcuts do not work. It enters the letter n or p into the field, or jumps to that letter in a drop-list, etc. When you tab out of the form field, the shortcuts work again.
>>
>> Sarah E. Bourne
>> Director of Assistive Technology &
>> Mass.Gov Chief Technology Strategist
>> Information Technology Division
>> Commonwealth of Massachusetts
>> 1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
>> 617-626-4502
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> http://www.mass.gov/itd
>>
>>
>>
From: Lucy Greco
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 11:43AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | Next message →
My only problem with this is that a key board only user would be using
the keyboard because they have a hard time with fine motor control and
sorry three keys at once or more like voice over uses is fine motor
control we want to remove keys from the path of the keyboard only user not
make them hit key after key after key to just move once through the
page. So a different mottle is needed not a screen reader model. Hay I
might even say some times the hand gymnastics I have to use as a screen
reader user are far too hard for me with borderline RSI. I like the idea
of the Firefox extension and I think browsers should be made responsible
to support aria for every one not just screen readers. Lucy
Lucia Greco
Web Access Analyst
IST-Campus Technology Services
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu Http://accessaces.com
Follow me on twitter @accessaces
From: Don Mauck
Date: Fri, Jan 24 2014 12:33PM
Subject: Re: Keyboard navigation
← Previous message | No next message
I agree, I even think that since more and more sites are doing away with the skip to nav, a keyboard user should be able to jump from heading to heading, just as a screen user can. As I said in my first post, buttons, radio buttons, lists ETC. should be included. I also think that it would be easy for Browsers to do this and Fire Fox could show the way since a plug-in would be the easiest way to go, IE should and you'd think that Microsoft would realize that more and more folks will need good keyboard navigation.