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From: Trafford, Logan
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 7:35AM
Subject: FTP site opinion
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Hi All.

I’m just looking for feedback (opinions) from others in this industry.

Here in Ontario, we are under the direction of the AODA (Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act) which stipulates our websites must be WCAG A compliant, moving to WCAG AA. Of course, like any large organization we are faced with resistance from certain departments whose material, while posted to a public site, is not necessarily meant for true public consumption.

So my question is this. Are there times when an FTP site is an acceptable practice for target audiences (thereby bypassing the “law” per se).

Removing my own personal opinion (I am on the side of making all documents accessible..period, end of story) I am just looking for opinions from others. Perhaps some of you have faced similar situations with 508.

thanks

Logan Trafford
Web Intermediate Systems Developer/Integrator (WCAG Compliance)
Corporate Accessibility Office
City of Ottawa
613-580-2424 x13598



This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any
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Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de
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From: Jared Smith
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 10:12AM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
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Trafford, Logan wrote:

> we are faced with resistance from certain departments
> whose material, while posted to a public site, is not
> necessarily meant for true public consumption.

I'm not sure I understand this. Who else would it be meant for? If for
internal employees, US law is much more clear about employment
discrimination than it is about discrimination due to inaccessible
content intended for the public.

> So my question is this. Are there times when an FTP
> site is an acceptable practice for target audiences
> (thereby bypassing the "law" per se).

I can't speak to whether AODA would apply to FTP sites. WCAG (which is
the basis for AODA) does not limit itself to HTTP protocols. It
applies to all web content (though one could make a stretching
argument, I suppose, that a PDF file on an FTP server isn't 'web'
content).

Unfortunately, the reality of AODA (and probably future US law) is
that many companies are simply removing content from the web to avoid
liability rather than making it accessible. A large insurance company
recently sent the following to all Ontarian customers...

"Due to technical limitations, starting December 8th 2013, most or
possibly all documents you view online will no longer be available.
Unfortunately, this is a necessary step as we improve the overall
accessibility of our site."
(http://blog.xenos.com/2014/02/update-on-aoda-for-document-accessibility/)

Of course the real intention is that by not providing the documents to
Ontarians, AODA would not apply to them. In this situation, everybody
loses.

Jared

From: Trafford, Logan
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 11:07AM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
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Thanks Jared.

We're talking about documents such as detailed site plans that are targeted for companies bidding on contracts (as an example).

The wording in the AODA legislation is a bit vague as to whether or not an FTP site is considered public domain or not..thus opening up a loophole that everyone wants to jump on. It'll probably take a hundred lawyers 5 years to figure it out...;-)

Logan

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 12:37PM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
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Here are some key obstacles I've run into with US and state government
agencies:

1. Managers and employees are scared. They've heard horror stories about how
difficult, time-consuming, and expensive it is to make a document
accessible.

2. Managers don't know how to make documents accessible, so they choose to
either ignore the problem, hide the document behind a loophole in the law,
or hire an outside contractor to fix the mess. The last option is very
expensive!

3. Agencies haven't yet examined their workflow and retooled it for the job
that needs to get done. Right now their workflow is:

Step 1. Make a Word, InDesign, or other document.

Step 2. Either place it online as is, or export it to PDF.

Step 3. Hand off the PDF to someone else who remediates it into compliance.

There are 2 major problems with this workflow; it's extremely difficult and
time-consuming to remediate a PDF, and most users of Word and InDesign don't
really know how to use the software correctly and instead use it by the seat
of their pants. In other words, they make poorly constructed documents which
then go on to become PDF nightmares.

No wonder accessible documents are so difficult and expensive to make!
Agencies are using an illogical, backwards workflow because they don't know
any better.

The solution is to educate the managers so that they understand how
accessible documents can easily be made by their staff, and then train the
users of MS Word, PowerPoint, and Adobe InDesign who create 90% of our
documents.

The accessibility problems start with the very first word that's written in
MS Word. Fix the problem there by training the document creators. Basic
training in how to use MS Word correctly solves more than 50% of the
problems and makes accessibility nearly cost-free.

Teaching a man to fish is a lot cheaper than supplying him with fish every
day.

-Bevi Chagnon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
New Sec. 508 Workshop & EPUBs Tour in 2014 - www.Workshop.Pubcom.com

From: Lynn Wehrman
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 1:19PM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
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The work I pioneered with the Minnesota DOT when working as their accessible document specialist, enabled us to streamline the process and use a team of individuals who were working as word processors as "master document converters" for legislative studies going out for public review as well as internal employee documents.

It is a great deal of extra work, however. I often compare it to having someone sew a shirt together incorrectly and then having to take a seam ripper and disassemble it and put it back together. The real solution, and the one our company, WeCo, partners with most companies regarding, is training document authors (such as project managers) to author their own documents from the start.

A key way we engage the people we train is by opening our sessions with a sensitivity segment including how people living with different disability types, some using devices/some not, interact with their documents. (Quote from our training services information.) "If people understand the 'why' behind accessibility, it's easier for them to retain the 'how' and feel motivated to act on it."

Warm Regards,

Lynn Wehrman
President & Test Management Team Director
theweco.com 855-849-5050 x705 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Follow WeCo on Twitter: @WeCo5 Interact with us on Facebook and read about current press coverage of our company!


Not sure if your webpage is accessible? Try our quick and easy Access Check-In service to find out within one week.



This email, including attachments, may be confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it was addressed. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this email immediately.

From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:37 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] FTP site opinion

Here are some key obstacles I've run into with US and state government
agencies:

1. Managers and employees are scared. They've heard horror stories about how
difficult, time-consuming, and expensive it is to make a document
accessible.

2. Managers don't know how to make documents accessible, so they choose to
either ignore the problem, hide the document behind a loophole in the law,
or hire an outside contractor to fix the mess. The last option is very
expensive!

3. Agencies haven't yet examined their workflow and retooled it for the job
that needs to get done. Right now their workflow is:

Step 1. Make a Word, InDesign, or other document.

Step 2. Either place it online as is, or export it to PDF.

Step 3. Hand off the PDF to someone else who remediates it into compliance.

There are 2 major problems with this workflow; it's extremely difficult and
time-consuming to remediate a PDF, and most users of Word and InDesign don't
really know how to use the software correctly and instead use it by the seat
of their pants. In other words, they make poorly constructed documents which
then go on to become PDF nightmares.

No wonder accessible documents are so difficult and expensive to make!
Agencies are using an illogical, backwards workflow because they don't know
any better.

The solution is to educate the managers so that they understand how
accessible documents can easily be made by their staff, and then train the
users of MS Word, PowerPoint, and Adobe InDesign who create 90% of our
documents.

The accessibility problems start with the very first word that's written in
MS Word. Fix the problem there by training the document creators. Basic
training in how to use MS Word correctly solves more than 50% of the
problems and makes accessibility nearly cost-free.

Teaching a man to fish is a lot cheaper than supplying him with fish every
day.

-Bevi Chagnon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
New Sec. 508 Workshop & EPUBs Tour in 2014 - www.Workshop.Pubcom.com

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 1:35PM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

Lynn Wehrman wote:
"... The real solution, and the one our company, WeCo, partners with most
companies regarding, is training document authors (such as project managers)
to author their own documents from the start. ..."

Perfect solution, Lynn. Kudos to you and your company.

- Bevi Chagnon
- PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
- Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
- 508 Workshop: www.workshop.pubcom.com
- US Federal Training: www.gpo.gov/customers/theinstitute.htm

From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 1:45PM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

Logan,

It sounds like the situation is a matter of intent versus location.

Their intent is for the documents only to be used by business' bidding on contracts. However, the location and manner which they make the documents available says their intent is for the documents to be publically available.

Maybe, the first step for them is to decide which it is. Do they really intend for the documents to be publically available? Or do they need to choose a location and manner of access that is in line with their stated intent.

That might make the rest of the decisions easier--or at least reduce the amount of debate.

Tim

From: Lynn Wehrman
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 1:55PM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

Tim, I totally agree. Part of the work I did for state government, and the DOT, was to sit down with groups and ascertain what the use and exposure was for the document and whether or not it deemed an accessible text version, or if another way to access the document was needed.

For instance, working with engineers who needed to post plat maps for public comment regarding an upcoming road being put through a neighborhood. Screen readers don't typically translate plat maps very well for the user, so we decided the more appropriate alternative was to assign someone with good customer service capability, and map knowledge, to translate what the map covered in the event that someone who could not encounter the map visually, wanted to know what it contained.

There is NEVER one solution for accessibility. Flexibility and being innovative is the key!

Warm Regards,

Lynn Wehrman
President & Test Management Team Director
theweco.com 855-849-5050 x705 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Follow WeCo on Twitter: @WeCo5 Interact with us on Facebook and read about current press coverage of our company!


Not sure if your webpage is accessible? Try our quick and easy Access Check-In service to find out within one week.



This email, including attachments, may be confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it was addressed. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this email immediately.

From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Tim Harshbarger < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 2:45 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] FTP site opinion

Logan,

It sounds like the situation is a matter of intent versus location.

Their intent is for the documents only to be used by business' bidding on contracts. However, the location and manner which they make the documents available says their intent is for the documents to be publically available.

Maybe, the first step for them is to decide which it is. Do they really intend for the documents to be publically available? Or do they need to choose a location and manner of access that is in line with their stated intent.

That might make the rest of the decisions easier--or at least reduce the amount of debate.

Tim

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Fri, Feb 28 2014 2:54PM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

Logan

> Perhaps some of you have faced similar situations with 508.
Jared partially covered this, but Section 508 applies to documents that
live on the inter/intranet, including SharePoint, and servers managed for a
contractor. Roughly speaking, if we are paying somebody to do something our
behalf 508 is applicable.

> Are there times when an FTP site is an acceptable practice for target
audiences (thereby bypassing the "law" per se).
I cannot talk about AODA or the US Federal Government as a whole, but a
Section 508 coordinator can decide when/if an exception applies. Where I
work we handle this on a case-by-case basis. We may grant an exception for
a FTP site, if the audience is small, somebody who is at the head of the
project knows all of the users and knows they do not have special needs,
and finally that portion of the site is locked down. We still advocate
making the documents compliant.

--
Ryan E. Benson


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Trafford, Logan
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Hi All.
>
> I'm just looking for feedback (opinions) from others in this industry.
>
> Here in Ontario, we are under the direction of the AODA (Accessibility for
> Ontarians with Disabilities Act) which stipulates our websites must be WCAG
> A compliant, moving to WCAG AA. Of course, like any large organization we
> are faced with resistance from certain departments whose material, while
> posted to a public site, is not necessarily meant for true public
> consumption.
>
> So my question is this. Are there times when an FTP site is an
> acceptable practice for target audiences (thereby bypassing the "law" per
> se).
>
> Removing my own personal opinion (I am on the side of making all documents
> accessible..period, end of story) I am just looking for opinions from
> others. Perhaps some of you have faced similar situations with 508.
>
> thanks
>
> Logan Trafford
> Web Intermediate Systems Developer/Integrator (WCAG Compliance)
> Corporate Accessibility Office
> City of Ottawa
> 613-580-2424 x13598
>
>
>
> This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any
> distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it
> contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the
> telephone number shown above or by return e-mail and delete
> this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you.
>
> Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de
> la Ville d'Ottawa. Toute distribution, utilisation ou
> reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent
> par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite.
> Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par
> téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer
> sans délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que
> toutes ses copies. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration.
>
> > > >

From: Bourne, Sarah (ITD)
Date: Mon, Mar 03 2014 7:29AM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

Bevi said: "The accessibility problems start with the very first word that's written in MS Word. Fix the problem there by training the document creators. Basic training in how to use MS Word correctly solves more than 50% of the problems and makes accessibility nearly cost-free."

The problem goes back even further than that. Everybody I know (including myself) was taught wrong, and then had to re-learn how to use Office software. I look forward to the day that introductory courses start with styles and not the bold and color buttons!

Sarah E. Bourne
Director of Assistive Technology
Information Technology Division
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
617-626-4502
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.mass.gov/itd

From: Shuttlesworth, Rachel
Date: Mon, Mar 03 2014 7:39AM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

The approach we are hoping to take on our campus is re-educating faculty,
staff, and students in use of Office and Acrobat in accessible ways. Who
else has already done this and would you be willing to discuss it with me?

Thanks for any ideas and advice,

Rachel

Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility
Center for Instructional Technology
University of Alabama







On 03/03/14, 8:29 AM, "Bourne, Sarah (ITD)" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

Bevi said: "The accessibility problems start with the very first word
that's written in MS Word. Fix the problem there by training the document
creators. Basic training in how to use MS Word correctly solves more than
50% of the problems and makes accessibility nearly cost-free."

The problem goes back even further than that. Everybody I know (including
myself) was taught wrong, and then had to re-learn how to use Office
software. I look forward to the day that introductory courses start with
styles and not the bold and color buttons!

Sarah E. Bourne
Director of Assistive Technology
Information Technology Division
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
617-626-4502
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.mass.gov/itd

From: John E Brandt
Date: Mon, Mar 03 2014 9:35AM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

I've been beating the "accessible digital documents" (ADD) drum for some
time. But my experience is that most folks are *never trained at all* on any
office suite product. It's all OTJ training. It is just assumed that
everyone today knows how to use these applications.

Kids used to take "typing" when I was in high school (I didn't). Are they
teaching "Word" now? I don't think so. Many of today's young adults start
using keyboards before they were out of diapers. The next generation are
swiping, flicking and spinning content on virtual keyboards and desktops...

I've tried to tackle the ADD with training articles and webinars. Not sure
how successful it has been as I see some of my former "students" doing the
same old things (old dogs?).

Here is what I developed: http://mainecite.org/add/

Be aware these have not been updated for close to two years; some things may
be out of date.

I've had better luck pushing the "Cheat Sheets" from the GOALS Project which
are probably more up to date and easier to disseminate:
http://ncdae.org/resources/cheatsheets/

~j


John E. Brandt
jebswebs: accessible and universal web design,
development and consultation
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
207-622-7937
Augusta, Maine, USA

@jebswebs

From: Angela French
Date: Mon, Mar 03 2014 9:43AM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

Please share with the list. We too are looking at this.

From: Bourne, Sarah (ITD)
Date: Mon, Mar 03 2014 11:35AM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | Next message →

John, my son was taught Word in middle school (public.) It was part of his "Study Skills" class. They also covered PowerPoint, and I believe they dipped into Excel as well. (He, too, was taught wrong, of course.)

sb
Sarah E. Bourne
Director of Assistive Technology
Information Technology Division
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
617-626-4502
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.mass.gov/itd

From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Tue, Mar 18 2014 12:11PM
Subject: Re: FTP site opinion
← Previous message | No next message

Training developed by a group of more than 30 Texas state agencies is available online and free:

http://governor.state.tx.us/disabilities/accessibledocs/

The training is broken up into modules on specific aspects of accessibility. The modules are short and to the point—short enough that they can be repeatedly referred to for remedial on-the-job support. They're available as Word documents, PDFs, audio files, and YouTube videos. If YouTube is not available in your environment, I'll bet they'll even send you the mp4 files.

This is not an exhaustive list of topics covered, but they include:
* Installing and using the Accessibility tab for Word. This tab provides an interface that supports the creation of accessible documents. To change colors, you have to either change tabs or create and apply an appropriate style.
* Using Word's Accessibility Checker.
* Checking the accessibility of a document using JAWS.
* Turning an old, inaccessible Word document into an accessible Word document.

* Creating templates and using them to support the correct use of styles.
* Creating accessible tables.
* Creating forms that are as accessible as Word forms can be.
* Converting (accessible) Word 2010 documents to (accessible) PDFs.
If you're still stuck in Word 2007, they have comparable documents for you, too:
http://governor.state.tx.us/disabilities/resources/accessible_communications/

These modules are free. Gratis. Available.

Use them to make your accessibility problems in MS Office go away.

Cliff Tyllick
AT&T Corporate Accessibility Technology Office
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =


> On Mar 3, 2014, at 12:35 PM, "Bourne, Sarah (ITD)" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> John, my son was taught Word in middle school (public.) It was part of his "Study Skills" class.  They also covered PowerPoint, and I believe they dipped into Excel as well. (He, too, was taught wrong, of course.)
>
> sb
> Sarah E. Bourne
> Director of Assistive Technology
> Information Technology Division
> Commonwealth of Massachusetts
> 1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
> 617-626-4502
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.mass.gov/itd
>
>
> > >