E-mail List Archives
Thread: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: Jordan Wilson
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 9:02AM
Subject: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
No previous message | Next message →
Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they use for remediating
a PDF?
I¹m trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large batches
of documents.
It might be helpful to have an average time for simple, intermediate and
complex documents.
From: Trafford, Logan
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 9:13AM
Subject: Re: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
← Previous message | Next message →
That question depends a lot on a number of variables, including but not limited to:
Experience and knowledge of the person doing the remediation, tools being used, size of document, complexity of document.
I'll let others weigh in, but I'm not sure it can accurately be "averaged".
Logan Trafford
Intermediate Web Developer (WCAG Compliance)
Corporate Accessibility Office
City of Ottawa
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jordan Wilson
Sent: October 10, 2014 11:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they use for remediating a PDF?
I¹m trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large batches of documents.
It might be helpful to have an average time for simple, intermediate and complex documents.
This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. Thank you.
Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de la Ville d'Ottawa. Toute distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration.
From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 9:42AM
Subject: Re: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
← Previous message | Next message →
Jordan wrote: "Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they use for
remediating a PDF?
I'm trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large batches of
documents."
Define "large." It means different things to different people. Is a large
batch 10 documents or 100 documents? Are the documents 5 pages long, 50
pages, or 500 pages?
In our contracts to agencies for PDF remediation, we specifically do not
place an estimate on how long it will take to remediate a PDF. It's just not
possible because there are too many variables.
The biggest factor is how well the original source document was made, which
then affects the underlying structure and coding of the PDF, which of course
directly affects accessibility.
The version of the originating software is critical; Word 2013 makes a
better document than Word 2007. Same with Adobe InDesign. And which version
of Acrobat was used to convert the document affects the accessibility in the
PDF.
You can't see any of these items by visually looking at the PDF, so how do
you know what you'll run into when you start remediation?
And then there's Alt-text; is the graphic a complex statistical chart or a
garden-variety photo for window-dressing the document's visual appearance?
Big difference in what has to be written for Alt-text, and statistical
Alt-text has to then be approved by the author or SME.
Summary: sometimes we can remediate a 100-page PDF from Word faster than a
4-page PDF brochure from InDesign. It's all about the code, the source
document, the software versions, and the skills of the person who made the
document.
WTHK ... Who the heck knows!
--BJC
- PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
- Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
- 508 Workshop: www.workshop.pubcom.com
- US Federal Training: www.gpo.gov/customers/theinstitute.htm
From: Jordan Wilson
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 9:54AM
Subject: Re: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks,
I don¹t need it to be perfect - rather looking for an average that I can
use for a low and high boundary for my estimate. As far as the size of the
batch, approximately 1000 documents. Most are simple, some are
intermediate and a few are complex.
Perhaps it would be more helpful if I took a stab myself and asked if it
made sense to others:
If I was to take a guess at this I¹d say something like:
Simple documents: .5 an hour
Intermediate documents: 1-4 hours
Complex documents: 4-8+ hours
Does that mesh (on average, and without needing to be perfect) with
other¹s experiences or it too high/too low?
On 10/10/14, 11:42 AM, "Chagnon | PubCom" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>Jordan wrote: "Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they use
>for
>remediating a PDF?
>I'm trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large batches
>of
>documents."
>
>Define "large." It means different things to different people. Is a large
>batch 10 documents or 100 documents? Are the documents 5 pages long, 50
>pages, or 500 pages?
>
>In our contracts to agencies for PDF remediation, we specifically do not
>place an estimate on how long it will take to remediate a PDF. It's just
>not
>possible because there are too many variables.
>
>The biggest factor is how well the original source document was made,
>which
>then affects the underlying structure and coding of the PDF, which of
>course
>directly affects accessibility.
>
>The version of the originating software is critical; Word 2013 makes a
>better document than Word 2007. Same with Adobe InDesign. And which
>version
>of Acrobat was used to convert the document affects the accessibility in
>the
>PDF.
>
>You can't see any of these items by visually looking at the PDF, so how do
>you know what you'll run into when you start remediation?
>
>And then there's Alt-text; is the graphic a complex statistical chart or a
>garden-variety photo for window-dressing the document's visual appearance?
>Big difference in what has to be written for Alt-text, and statistical
>Alt-text has to then be approved by the author or SME.
>
>Summary: sometimes we can remediate a 100-page PDF from Word faster than a
>4-page PDF brochure from InDesign. It's all about the code, the source
>document, the software versions, and the skills of the person who made the
>document.
>
>WTHK ... Who the heck knows!
>
>--BJC
>
>- PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>- Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>Accessibility.
>- 508 Workshop: www.workshop.pubcom.com
>- US Federal Training: www.gpo.gov/customers/theinstitute.htm
>
>
>>>
From: William Seiter
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 9:58AM
Subject: Re: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
← Previous message | Next message →
I have seen single page PDFs that were obviously 'scanned' versions of a
mailed informational flyer, all text is a 'picture' (not even OCR) inside
the PDF.
This type of thing would have to be completely redone in order to be ever
considered for accessibility...
My point? In a 'large batch' of documents, you may not know what you are
really getting into.
I would suggest setting up an hourly rate and a 'minimum' for the project...
Then rely on good communication with the client so that if there is an issue
with some of the PDFs, they know and can readjust their budgets.
William
----------------------------------
William Seiter
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jordan Wilson
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 8:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they use for remediating a
PDF?
I¹m trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large batches of
documents.
It might be helpful to have an average time for simple, intermediate and
complex documents.
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 10:14AM
Subject: Re: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
← Previous message | Next message →
> If I was to take a guess at this I¹d say something like: Simple documents: .5 an hour Intermediate documents: 1-4 hours
It really depends on the number of pages in the document, the level of accessibility desired (e.g. Section 508, WCAG, PDF/UA, etc.), the person doing the work, the tools you have available, the native document format, etc.
Form based documents, documents with multiple columns, or documents with math, footnotes, superscripts, etc. can vary widely. Perhaps a better way of looking at it is the types of elements each document contains along with the number of pages.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jordan Wilson
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 11:55 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
Thanks,
I don¹t need it to be perfect - rather looking for an average that I can use for a low and high boundary for my estimate. As far as the size of the batch, approximately 1000 documents. Most are simple, some are intermediate and a few are complex.
Perhaps it would be more helpful if I took a stab myself and asked if it made sense to others:
If I was to take a guess at this I¹d say something like:
Simple documents: .5 an hour
Intermediate documents: 1-4 hours
Complex documents: 4-8+ hours
Does that mesh (on average, and without needing to be perfect) with other¹s experiences or it too high/too low?
On 10/10/14, 11:42 AM, "Chagnon | PubCom" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>Jordan wrote: "Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they
>use for remediating a PDF?
>I'm trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large
>batches of documents."
>
>Define "large." It means different things to different people. Is a
>large batch 10 documents or 100 documents? Are the documents 5 pages
>long, 50 pages, or 500 pages?
>
>In our contracts to agencies for PDF remediation, we specifically do
>not place an estimate on how long it will take to remediate a PDF. It's
>just not possible because there are too many variables.
>
>The biggest factor is how well the original source document was made,
>which then affects the underlying structure and coding of the PDF,
>which of course directly affects accessibility.
>
>The version of the originating software is critical; Word 2013 makes a
>better document than Word 2007. Same with Adobe InDesign. And which
>version of Acrobat was used to convert the document affects the
>accessibility in the PDF.
>
>You can't see any of these items by visually looking at the PDF, so how
>do you know what you'll run into when you start remediation?
>
>And then there's Alt-text; is the graphic a complex statistical chart
>or a garden-variety photo for window-dressing the document's visual appearance?
>Big difference in what has to be written for Alt-text, and statistical
>Alt-text has to then be approved by the author or SME.
>
>Summary: sometimes we can remediate a 100-page PDF from Word faster
>than a 4-page PDF brochure from InDesign. It's all about the code, the
>source document, the software versions, and the skills of the person
>who made the document.
>
>WTHK ... Who the heck knows!
>
>--BJC
>
>- PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>- Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>Accessibility.
>- 508 Workshop: www.workshop.pubcom.com
>- US Federal Training: www.gpo.gov/customers/theinstitute.htm
>
>
>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 10:39AM
Subject: Re: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
← Previous message | Next message →
I'd use a page rate rather than a document rate.
Maybe something like this:
Each page of basic text: x$ per page (starting base rate)
Each graphic/Alt-Text: Additional x$ for each graphic
If footnotes, superscripts, and other cross-references, Additional x$ per
page
Per document fee: Additional x$ to cover testing, metadata, etc. per
document
And other items.
So, start with the base rate of a page of solid text and headings. Then add
in the additional labor costs for fixing all of the other things that could
be in a document--sidebars, tables, cross-references, etc.
--BJC
PubCom.com Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
508 Workshop: www.workshop.pubcom.com
US Federal Training: www.gpo.gov/customers/theinstitute.htm
-----Original Message-----
> If I was to take a guess at this I¹d say something like: Simple
> documents: .5 an hour Intermediate documents: 1-4 hours
It really depends on the number of pages in the document, the level of
accessibility desired (e.g. Section 508, WCAG, PDF/UA, etc.), the person
doing the work, the tools you have available, the native document format,
etc.
Form based documents, documents with multiple columns, or documents with
math, footnotes, superscripts, etc. can vary widely. Perhaps a better way
of looking at it is the types of elements each document contains along with
the number of pages.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
Thanks,
I don¹t need it to be perfect - rather looking for an average that I can use
for a low and high boundary for my estimate. As far as the size of the
batch, approximately 1000 documents. Most are simple, some are intermediate
and a few are complex.
Perhaps it would be more helpful if I took a stab myself and asked if it
made sense to others:
If I was to take a guess at this I¹d say something like:
Simple documents: .5 an hour
Intermediate documents: 1-4 hours
Complex documents: 4-8+ hours
Does that mesh (on average, and without needing to be perfect) with other¹s
experiences or it too high/too low?
On 10/10/14, 11:42 AM, "Chagnon | PubCom" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>Jordan wrote: "Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they
>use for remediating a PDF?
>I'm trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large
>batches of documents."
>
>Define "large." It means different things to different people. Is a
>large batch 10 documents or 100 documents? Are the documents 5 pages
>long, 50 pages, or 500 pages?
>
>In our contracts to agencies for PDF remediation, we specifically do
>not place an estimate on how long it will take to remediate a PDF. It's
>just not possible because there are too many variables.
>
>The biggest factor is how well the original source document was made,
>which then affects the underlying structure and coding of the PDF,
>which of course directly affects accessibility.
>
>The version of the originating software is critical; Word 2013 makes a
>better document than Word 2007. Same with Adobe InDesign. And which
>version of Acrobat was used to convert the document affects the
>accessibility in the PDF.
>
>You can't see any of these items by visually looking at the PDF, so how
>do you know what you'll run into when you start remediation?
>
>And then there's Alt-text; is the graphic a complex statistical chart
>or a garden-variety photo for window-dressing the document's visual
appearance?
>Big difference in what has to be written for Alt-text, and statistical
>Alt-text has to then be approved by the author or SME.
>
>Summary: sometimes we can remediate a 100-page PDF from Word faster
>than a 4-page PDF brochure from InDesign. It's all about the code, the
>source document, the software versions, and the skills of the person
>who made the document.
>
>WTHK ... Who the heck knows!
>
>--BJC
>
>- PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>- Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>Accessibility.
>- 508 Workshop: www.workshop.pubcom.com
>- US Federal Training: www.gpo.gov/customers/theinstitute.htm
From: Dona Patrick
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2014 10:41AM
Subject: Re: Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
← Previous message | No next message
I am asked this question all the time at work. I respond with some of the
same responses that have been provided here and they still say, "Okay
thanks, but how long will it take. We need an LOE for our paperwork..."
So then I usually respond that I can do, on average, 10 to 15 pages an hour
and then figure out about how many pages there are in all and then provide
them with what they are looking for. I always include a disclaimer that if
the files are very complex, misbehave in any way, if I have to write all of
the alt text or if the tables are very complex it will take me more than
what I quoted. I open all of the files to see how many pages are in each
and do a quick scan of what is involved. Sometimes my LOE takes several
hours to write.
Dona
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> > If I was to take a guess at this I¹d say something like: Simple
> documents: .5 an hour Intermediate documents: 1-4 hours
>
> It really depends on the number of pages in the document, the level of
> accessibility desired (e.g. Section 508, WCAG, PDF/UA, etc.), the person
> doing the work, the tools you have available, the native document format,
> etc.
>
> Form based documents, documents with multiple columns, or documents with
> math, footnotes, superscripts, etc. can vary widely. Perhaps a better
> way of looking at it is the types of elements each document contains along
> with the number of pages.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jordan Wilson
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 11:55 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Average time to Remediate PDFs in bulk?
>
> Thanks,
>
> I don¹t need it to be perfect - rather looking for an average that I can
> use for a low and high boundary for my estimate. As far as the size of the
> batch, approximately 1000 documents. Most are simple, some are intermediate
> and a few are complex.
>
> Perhaps it would be more helpful if I took a stab myself and asked if it
> made sense to others:
>
> If I was to take a guess at this I¹d say something like:
>
> Simple documents: .5 an hour
> Intermediate documents: 1-4 hours
> Complex documents: 4-8+ hours
>
> Does that mesh (on average, and without needing to be perfect) with
> other¹s experiences or it too high/too low?
>
>
>
> On 10/10/14, 11:42 AM, "Chagnon | PubCom" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> >Jordan wrote: "Does anyone recommend an average time (in hours) they
> >use for remediating a PDF?
> >I'm trying to semi-accurately estimate an hourly effort for large
> >batches of documents."
> >
> >Define "large." It means different things to different people. Is a
> >large batch 10 documents or 100 documents? Are the documents 5 pages
> >long, 50 pages, or 500 pages?
> >
> >In our contracts to agencies for PDF remediation, we specifically do
> >not place an estimate on how long it will take to remediate a PDF. It's
> >just not possible because there are too many variables.
> >
> >The biggest factor is how well the original source document was made,
> >which then affects the underlying structure and coding of the PDF,
> >which of course directly affects accessibility.
> >
> >The version of the originating software is critical; Word 2013 makes a
> >better document than Word 2007. Same with Adobe InDesign. And which
> >version of Acrobat was used to convert the document affects the
> >accessibility in the PDF.
> >
> >You can't see any of these items by visually looking at the PDF, so how
> >do you know what you'll run into when you start remediation?
> >
> >And then there's Alt-text; is the graphic a complex statistical chart
> >or a garden-variety photo for window-dressing the document's visual
> appearance?
> >Big difference in what has to be written for Alt-text, and statistical
> >Alt-text has to then be approved by the author or SME.
> >
> >Summary: sometimes we can remediate a 100-page PDF from Word faster
> >than a 4-page PDF brochure from InDesign. It's all about the code, the
> >source document, the software versions, and the skills of the person
> >who made the document.
> >
> >WTHK ... Who the heck knows!
> >
> >--BJC
> >
> >- PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
> >- Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
> >Accessibility.
> >- 508 Workshop: www.workshop.pubcom.com
> >- US Federal Training: www.gpo.gov/customers/theinstitute.htm
> >
> >
> >> >> >messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > >