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Thread: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
Number of posts in this thread: 16 (In chronological order)
From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Thu, Apr 06 2017 11:00AM
Subject: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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Do screen reader users generally know to use Alt+Down arrow in combo box to list all possible choices?
We have a giant combo box for Country of Citizenship with 200+ options. If the user does not use Alt+Arrow to list choices, the screen reader does not tell them "X of 200".
Also it calculates whether to show Country of Birth or Residency Status "onchange", which is bad code, avoided if using Alt+Down arrow
Thanks.
Joseph
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: Thu, Apr 06 2017 3:54PM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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Hello,
I would say only about 20-30% of screen reader users know about the alt+
down arrow. I would suggest autocomplete (datalist). That way rather than
arrowing through 20 items I can just type them. The only time when alt+down
arrow is really useful is when the page changes when I select a new option.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Joseph Sherman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Do screen reader users generally know to use Alt+Down arrow in combo box
> to list all possible choices?
>
> We have a giant combo box for Country of Citizenship with 200+ options. If
> the user does not use Alt+Arrow to list choices, the screen reader does not
> tell them "X of 200".
>
> Also it calculates whether to show Country of Birth or Residency Status
> "onchange", which is bad code, avoided if using Alt+Down arrow
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joseph
>
> > > > >
From: Bossley, Peter A.
Date: Thu, Apr 06 2017 4:34PM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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I would say that you can't rely on them knowing about expanding select boxes. Also, Changing something based on someone arrowing through a select list is a bad idea for a few reasons, but mostly because screen reader users might not be aware of the change. Worse yet is if the change involves moving focus or loading a new page, that'll create issues for both screen reader and keyboard users.
From: Beranek, Nicholas
Date: Thu, Apr 06 2017 4:49PM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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It's also a violation of SC 3.2.2 On Input to change context upon selecting an option.
Nick
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2017, at 6:34 PM, Bossley, Peter A. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I would say that you can't rely on them knowing about expanding select boxes. Also, Changing something based on someone arrowing through a select list is a bad idea for a few reasons, but mostly because screen reader users might not be aware of the change. Worse yet is if the change involves moving focus or loading a new page, that'll create issues for both screen reader and keyboard users.
>
>
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: Thu, Apr 06 2017 5:04PM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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Hello,
If you would like the feel to be the same for blind and sighted
users,couldn't one just check for click, space and return rather than the
onchange event?
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Beranek, Nicholas <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> It's also a violation of SC 3.2.2 On Input to change context upon
> selecting an option.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> > On Apr 6, 2017, at 6:34 PM, Bossley, Peter A. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > I would say that you can't rely on them knowing about expanding select
> boxes. Also, Changing something based on someone arrowing through a select
> list is a bad idea for a few reasons, but mostly because screen reader
> users might not be aware of the change. Worse yet is if the change involves
> moving focus or loading a new page, that'll create issues for both screen
> reader and keyboard users.
> >
> >
From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Thu, Apr 06 2017 5:26PM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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Remember accessibility goes beyond screen readers, some people who need
accessibility don't use screen readers, and maybe no AT all,for example
some with mobility impairments. I would drop the level of people who know
about alt+down to near zero from that category.
Ryan E. Benson
On Apr 6, 2017 13:00, "Joseph Sherman" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Do screen reader users generally know to use Alt+Down arrow in combo box
> to list all possible choices?
>
> We have a giant combo box for Country of Citizenship with 200+ options. If
> the user does not use Alt+Arrow to list choices, the screen reader does not
> tell them "X of 200".
>
> Also it calculates whether to show Country of Birth or Residency Status
> "onchange", which is bad code, avoided if using Alt+Down arrow
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joseph
>
> > > > >
From: Roger Hudson
Date: Thu, Apr 06 2017 6:52PM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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+1
From: Jim Homme
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 7:13AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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Hi,
It's the screen reader user's responsibility to learn how to use their computer. This is a Windows key stroke.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Team Lead and Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
From: Beranek, Nicholas
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 7:35AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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I agree, Jim; I'm glad you said this. Whenever we come across a difficult problem to solve for a complicated widget, we always true back to what the default behavior of the operating system is.
Nick
From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 8:03AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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I know onchange is poor, unfortunately this is within a limited platform application so options are limited. I do not believe we can write standard HTML; just use the options the platform gives us.
Joseph
>
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 7:34AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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I would agree. We need better training for those of us who use adaptive technology. This has been the standard way of accessing dropdown and combo boxes for years.
Cheers, Karen
From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 9:24AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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I disagree with it is the responsibility to learn every hot key for a
program. At work I have to use IE (no comments please), and Microsoft help
page only attributes the hot key to the favorites dialog, nothing about
select drop downs.
Ryan E. Benson
On Apr 7, 2017 9:13 AM, "Jim Homme" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi,
> It's the screen reader user's responsibility to learn how to use their
> computer. This is a Windows key stroke.
>
> Jim
>
>
> =========> Jim Homme,
> Team Lead and Accessibility Consultant,
> Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
> Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
> 412-787-8567,
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-
> accessible-technology-solutions
> E+R=O
>
>
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 10:41AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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Hello,
as seen below, onchange is a violation, not a poor choice. That is a
terrible platform if you can not get keydown and onclick. I would suggest
changing platforms. But one thing you could do is place a little message
above the box telling users about alt+down arrow. Another thing you could
do is not reload the page, just change the text in the other elements. The
most common approach is to have a lag of 5-10 seconds after the user has
settled on an option before changing. This sort of works.
But please change platforms if there is no support for onclick or keydown
events. That is just promoting bad design.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 7:03 AM, Joseph Sherman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> I know onchange is poor, unfortunately this is within a limited platform
> application so options are limited. I do not believe we can write standard
> HTML; just use the options the platform gives us.
>
> Joseph
>
> >
From: Beranek, Nicholas
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 10:56AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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I would suggest using a 'Go- button right next to the combo box.
--
Nick Beranek
Digital Accessibility Team
On 4/7/17, 12:41 PM, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Brandon Keith Biggs" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hello,
as seen below, onchange is a violation, not a poor choice. That is a
terrible platform if you can not get keydown and onclick. I would suggest
changing platforms. But one thing you could do is place a little message
above the box telling users about alt+down arrow. Another thing you could
do is not reload the page, just change the text in the other elements. The
most common approach is to have a lag of 5-10 seconds after the user has
settled on an option before changing. This sort of works.
But please change platforms if there is no support for onclick or keydown
events. That is just promoting bad design.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 7:03 AM, Joseph Sherman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> I know onchange is poor, unfortunately this is within a limited platform
> application so options are limited. I do not believe we can write standard
> HTML; just use the options the platform gives us.
>
> Joseph
>
> >
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 10:57AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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On 07/04/2017 14:13, Jim Homme wrote:
> Hi,
> It's the screen reader user's responsibility to learn how to use their computer. This is a Windows key stroke.
However, it's also standard on windows to be able to interact with
something like a <select> quite happily by just using cursor up/down, or
by starting to type what you want and have the <select> jump to the
option that starts with what you typed, all without opening the actual
<select> itself. So, this standard way of working with a <select> should
also be supported (i.e. it should be announced properly, and it should
not onchange as soon as the user starts to navigate the options this way).
As ever, it's about striking a balance. Not all users are power users.
Certainly it's good to cater for the power users that know all the right
moves, but to also make concessions for those who don't (if possible).
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
From: Jim Homme
Date: Fri, Apr 07 2017 12:45PM
Subject: Re: Alt+Down arrow in combo box well known?
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Hi,
I agree with this.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Team Lead and Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O