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Thread: Reading order of details links?
Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)
From: Angela French
Date: Thu, Jun 01 2017 3:50PM
Subject: Reading order of details links?
No previous message | Next message →
Hello,
I am reviewing an old web application for improvements that can be made for accessibility. A frequent piece of functionality in the application is to make a query to the database based on user-selected criteria. The returned results are then displayed in a data table. In a number of cases, the very first column of each row contains a link that reads "details" and provides the user the opportunity to drill down and see more information about the item.
My concern is with having this link in the first column. It seems to me it is asking the screen reader user to decide about something they haven't "seen" yet. It seems they would have to read the data in the row, then back up to select the "view" link.
Another instance we have which is similar to this is a returned row of data where the first column is a checkbox for each row. An action is made to those items which have been selected. Again, the screen reader user is being asked to select something before they know what the "something" is.
Am I getting too in the weeds here, so to speak, or is my concern valid? Other than putting the actionable items in the far right column, which may slowdown keyboard users, is there another UI approach I might take to level the efficiency playing field?
Thank you for your opinion and/or links to examples of solution ideas.
Angela French
Internet/Intranet Specialist
Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
www.sbctc.edu<;http://www.sbctc.edu/>;
From: JP Jamous
Date: Thu, Jun 01 2017 4:08PM
Subject: Re: Reading order of details links?
← Previous message | Next message →
Angela,
This may not be the best idea, but what if you use scope="col" for the information the SR user will have to read. This way, the first row will be the links and the row below it would be considered as a column heading. I am trying to attack this without the use of ARIA.
If you want to use ARIA, then use aria-described by and link it to the text in the TD below the link. Once the link gets focus aria-describedby="tdId" would be read to the user.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 4:50 PM
To: WebAim Forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Hello,
I am reviewing an old web application for improvements that can be made for accessibility. A frequent piece of functionality in the application is to make a query to the database based on user-selected criteria. The returned results are then displayed in a data table. In a number of cases, the very first column of each row contains a link that reads "details" and provides the user the opportunity to drill down and see more information about the item.
My concern is with having this link in the first column. It seems to me it is asking the screen reader user to decide about something they haven't "seen" yet. It seems they would have to read the data in the row, then back up to select the "view" link.
Another instance we have which is similar to this is a returned row of data where the first column is a checkbox for each row. An action is made to those items which have been selected. Again, the screen reader user is being asked to select something before they know what the "something" is.
Am I getting too in the weeds here, so to speak, or is my concern valid? Other than putting the actionable items in the far right column, which may slowdown keyboard users, is there another UI approach I might take to level the efficiency playing field?
Thank you for your opinion and/or links to examples of solution ideas.
Angela French
Internet/Intranet Specialist
Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
www.sbctc.edu<;http://www.sbctc.edu/>;
From: Angela French
Date: Thu, Jun 01 2017 4:21PM
Subject: Re: Reading order of details links?
← Previous message | Next message →
I'm not sure I'm following you JP, so I've included a public link here that shows one such instance of this issue: https://secure.techprepwa.org/searchArticulations.aspx.
Just use the default search criteria and click the "Go Search!" button. The results will appear in the table below. I know there are a number of accessibility issues that may be encountered on this page. For now I'm just asking about the placement of the "Details" link that is in the first cell of each row.
Angela French
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JP Jamous
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 3:09 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Angela,
This may not be the best idea, but what if you use scope="col" for the information the SR user will have to read. This way, the first row will be the links and the row below it would be considered as a column heading. I am trying to attack this without the use of ARIA.
If you want to use ARIA, then use aria-described by and link it to the text in the TD below the link. Once the link gets focus aria-describedby="tdId" would be read to the user.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 4:50 PM
To: WebAim Forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Hello,
I am reviewing an old web application for improvements that can be made for accessibility. A frequent piece of functionality in the application is to make a query to the database based on user-selected criteria. The returned results are then displayed in a data table. In a number of cases, the very first column of each row contains a link that reads "details" and provides the user the opportunity to drill down and see more information about the item.
My concern is with having this link in the first column. It seems to me it is asking the screen reader user to decide about something they haven't "seen" yet. It seems they would have to read the data in the row, then back up to select the "view" link.
Another instance we have which is similar to this is a returned row of data where the first column is a checkbox for each row. An action is made to those items which have been selected. Again, the screen reader user is being asked to select something before they know what the "something" is.
Am I getting too in the weeds here, so to speak, or is my concern valid? Other than putting the actionable items in the far right column, which may slowdown keyboard users, is there another UI approach I might take to level the efficiency playing field?
Thank you for your opinion and/or links to examples of solution ideas.
Angela French
Internet/Intranet Specialist
Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
www.sbctc.edu<;http://www.sbctc.edu/>;
From: JP Jamous
Date: Thu, Jun 01 2017 4:33PM
Subject: Re: Reading order of details links?
← Previous message | Next message →
1. When you press "Go Search" nothing happens. You need to notify the SR user via aria-live that some results were found.
2. I see what is going on now. I would add a summary to the table to give the user information on how to get to the second, third and fourth list of results.
The way the table is constructed, the links are not read if the SR user uses table navigation. Only if I down-arrow I can read the links. That is why a summary explaining that there are links that bring more results at the beginning and end of the table is necessary.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 5:22 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
I'm not sure I'm following you JP, so I've included a public link here that shows one such instance of this issue: https://secure.techprepwa.org/searchArticulations.aspx.
Just use the default search criteria and click the "Go Search!" button. The results will appear in the table below. I know there are a number of accessibility issues that may be encountered on this page. For now I'm just asking about the placement of the "Details" link that is in the first cell of each row.
Angela French
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JP Jamous
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 3:09 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Angela,
This may not be the best idea, but what if you use scope="col" for the information the SR user will have to read. This way, the first row will be the links and the row below it would be considered as a column heading. I am trying to attack this without the use of ARIA.
If you want to use ARIA, then use aria-described by and link it to the text in the TD below the link. Once the link gets focus aria-describedby="tdId" would be read to the user.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 4:50 PM
To: WebAim Forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Hello,
I am reviewing an old web application for improvements that can be made for accessibility. A frequent piece of functionality in the application is to make a query to the database based on user-selected criteria. The returned results are then displayed in a data table. In a number of cases, the very first column of each row contains a link that reads "details" and provides the user the opportunity to drill down and see more information about the item.
My concern is with having this link in the first column. It seems to me it is asking the screen reader user to decide about something they haven't "seen" yet. It seems they would have to read the data in the row, then back up to select the "view" link.
Another instance we have which is similar to this is a returned row of data where the first column is a checkbox for each row. An action is made to those items which have been selected. Again, the screen reader user is being asked to select something before they know what the "something" is.
Am I getting too in the weeds here, so to speak, or is my concern valid? Other than putting the actionable items in the far right column, which may slowdown keyboard users, is there another UI approach I might take to level the efficiency playing field?
Thank you for your opinion and/or links to examples of solution ideas.
Angela French
Internet/Intranet Specialist
Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
www.sbctc.edu<;http://www.sbctc.edu/>;
From: Angela French
Date: Thu, Jun 01 2017 4:37PM
Subject: Re: Reading order of details links?
← Previous message | Next message →
Yes, there are many things that need improvement. Were you able to get to any Details link?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JP Jamous
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 3:34 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
1. When you press "Go Search" nothing happens. You need to notify the SR user via aria-live that some results were found.
2. I see what is going on now. I would add a summary to the table to give the user information on how to get to the second, third and fourth list of results.
The way the table is constructed, the links are not read if the SR user uses table navigation. Only if I down-arrow I can read the links. That is why a summary explaining that there are links that bring more results at the beginning and end of the table is necessary.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 5:22 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
I'm not sure I'm following you JP, so I've included a public link here that shows one such instance of this issue: https://secure.techprepwa.org/searchArticulations.aspx.
Just use the default search criteria and click the "Go Search!" button. The results will appear in the table below. I know there are a number of accessibility issues that may be encountered on this page. For now I'm just asking about the placement of the "Details" link that is in the first cell of each row.
Angela French
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JP Jamous
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 3:09 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Angela,
This may not be the best idea, but what if you use scope="col" for the information the SR user will have to read. This way, the first row will be the links and the row below it would be considered as a column heading. I am trying to attack this without the use of ARIA.
If you want to use ARIA, then use aria-described by and link it to the text in the TD below the link. Once the link gets focus aria-describedby="tdId" would be read to the user.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 4:50 PM
To: WebAim Forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Hello,
I am reviewing an old web application for improvements that can be made for accessibility. A frequent piece of functionality in the application is to make a query to the database based on user-selected criteria. The returned results are then displayed in a data table. In a number of cases, the very first column of each row contains a link that reads "details" and provides the user the opportunity to drill down and see more information about the item.
My concern is with having this link in the first column. It seems to me it is asking the screen reader user to decide about something they haven't "seen" yet. It seems they would have to read the data in the row, then back up to select the "view" link.
Another instance we have which is similar to this is a returned row of data where the first column is a checkbox for each row. An action is made to those items which have been selected. Again, the screen reader user is being asked to select something before they know what the "something" is.
Am I getting too in the weeds here, so to speak, or is my concern valid? Other than putting the actionable items in the far right column, which may slowdown keyboard users, is there another UI approach I might take to level the efficiency playing field?
Thank you for your opinion and/or links to examples of solution ideas.
Angela French
Internet/Intranet Specialist
Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
www.sbctc.edu<;http://www.sbctc.edu/>;
From: JP Jamous
Date: Fri, Jun 02 2017 4:36PM
Subject: Re: Reading order of details links?
← Previous message | No next message
Yes the details links are accessible, but you have an issue when the content opens up in the overlay.
There is a table with 3 columns where the left column has row headings. The table does not use scope="row". So as I am reading the information on the right side, I don't hear the row columns unless I move to the cells at the far left.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 5:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Yes, there are many things that need improvement. Were you able to get to any Details link?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JP Jamous
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 3:34 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
1. When you press "Go Search" nothing happens. You need to notify the SR user via aria-live that some results were found.
2. I see what is going on now. I would add a summary to the table to give the user information on how to get to the second, third and fourth list of results.
The way the table is constructed, the links are not read if the SR user uses table navigation. Only if I down-arrow I can read the links. That is why a summary explaining that there are links that bring more results at the beginning and end of the table is necessary.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 5:22 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
I'm not sure I'm following you JP, so I've included a public link here that shows one such instance of this issue: https://secure.techprepwa.org/searchArticulations.aspx.
Just use the default search criteria and click the "Go Search!" button. The results will appear in the table below. I know there are a number of accessibility issues that may be encountered on this page. For now I'm just asking about the placement of the "Details" link that is in the first cell of each row.
Angela French
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JP Jamous
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 3:09 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Angela,
This may not be the best idea, but what if you use scope="col" for the information the SR user will have to read. This way, the first row will be the links and the row below it would be considered as a column heading. I am trying to attack this without the use of ARIA.
If you want to use ARIA, then use aria-described by and link it to the text in the TD below the link. Once the link gets focus aria-describedby="tdId" would be read to the user.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 4:50 PM
To: WebAim Forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Reading order of details links?
Hello,
I am reviewing an old web application for improvements that can be made for accessibility. A frequent piece of functionality in the application is to make a query to the database based on user-selected criteria. The returned results are then displayed in a data table. In a number of cases, the very first column of each row contains a link that reads "details" and provides the user the opportunity to drill down and see more information about the item.
My concern is with having this link in the first column. It seems to me it is asking the screen reader user to decide about something they haven't "seen" yet. It seems they would have to read the data in the row, then back up to select the "view" link.
Another instance we have which is similar to this is a returned row of data where the first column is a checkbox for each row. An action is made to those items which have been selected. Again, the screen reader user is being asked to select something before they know what the "something" is.
Am I getting too in the weeds here, so to speak, or is my concern valid? Other than putting the actionable items in the far right column, which may slowdown keyboard users, is there another UI approach I might take to level the efficiency playing field?
Thank you for your opinion and/or links to examples of solution ideas.
Angela French
Internet/Intranet Specialist
Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
www.sbctc.edu<;http://www.sbctc.edu/>;