Thread Subject: Re: Additional issues with closed,self-contained products

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From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Tue, Nov 14 2006 6:40 PM

Hi Rex

I'm not sure I follow.

The provision from the 508 standard reads.

"(a) Self contained products shall be usable by people with disabilities
without requiring an end-user to attach assistive technology to the product.
Personal headsets for private listening are not assistive technology."

Are saying that, since " usable by people with disabilities" isn't defined
that it somehow not in effect? Or are you saying something else? Couldn't
follow that part Can you explain what you mean by that?

RE - other provisions. - I didn't say that all of the other provisions
didn't hold. Just that the ones that deal with installed AT compatibility
wouldn't apply since provision (a) (above) says that it must be usable
without AT (and you can't install the AT). However you would still have to
be compatible with other (non-installed) AT. For example prosthetics,
hearing aids, wheelchairs etc.).

I guess technically you could argue that all of the OS rules had to apply to
closed systems as well. But that seems to make it harder for industry
without any benefit to users. So I don't think anyone would press for that.
Now - as pointed out, AT compatibility could help in making some 'closed'
products accessible by allowing one to install AT in the closed product
before you close it - thus making it accessible.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rex Lint [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 3:21 PM
> To: 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; 'TEITAC self
> contained/closed products subcommittee'
> Subject: RE: [teitac-closed] Additional issues with
> closed,self-contained products
>
> Indeed, the very first provision for the closed products says,
> 1194.25 (a) "Self contained products shall be usable by
> people with disabilities without requiring an end-user to
> attach assistive technology to the product. Personal headsets
> for private listening are not assistive technology."
>
> So by "closing" a PC based product with a policy, there is
> then a different set of provisions to satisfy than if it were
> not closed by a policy. I daresay that the provisions on a
> closed system are significantly different than those for the
> other product classes. And if your suggestion that, " To
> meet closed system access they would need to (with their
> installed AT) be accessible" (from the provision above), I
> submit, is open to interpretation:
> "be usable by people with disabilities" is not defined in the
> standard, so far as I can tell. And all the specific
> technical requirements for s/w and o/s and web pages don't
> apply, only the "closed product" provisions do.
>
> I suspect you have a different interpretation...?
>
> Rex
>
> Rex Lint, Consultant
> Chair, Section 508 Working Group
> Information Technology Association of America
> PH: 603-860-7651, FAX: 603-882-6612
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:32 PM
> To: 'Rex Lint'; = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; 'TEITAC self
> contained/closed products subcommittee'
> Subject: RE: [teitac-closed] Additional issues with
> closed,self-contained products
>
> Not sure I understand Rex. To meet closed system access
> they would need to
> (with their installed AT) be accessible.
>
> I can understand the "not meeting OS" because they are closed
> and the AT part of OS access wouldn't be needed (since it
> couldn't be accessed anyway).
> But the other OS parts would be met because of their closed system
> counterparts. And if it browsed web content - wouldn't it
> need to render
> it accessibly to be called accessible?
>
> Or were you saying something else?
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rex Lint [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:21 PM
> > To: 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; 'TEITAC self
> > contained/closed products subcommittee'
> > Subject: RE: [teitac-closed] Additional issues with
> > closed,self-contained products
> >
> > "Or rather, in their "closed state" they meet all the
> closed product
> > guidelines." {Gregg Vanderheiden]
> >
> > ...And they might NOT meet the provisions for computer operating
> > system/applications nor allow conformant web pages to be accessible.
> >
> > Perhaps we draft an observation that policy can affect
> accessibility
> > as much as technical provisions do, and that policy should
> be adjusted
> > to allow for addition of AT. Where to put it? Probably in the
> > standard somewhere...
> >
> > Rex
> >
> > Rex Lint, Consultant
> > Chair, Section 508 Working Group
> > Information Technology Association of America
> > PH: 603-860-7651, FAX: 603-882-6612
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:14 PM
> > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; 'Rex Lint'; 'TEITAC self contained/closed
> > products subcommittee'
> > Subject: RE: [teitac-closed] Additional issues with
> > closed,self-contained products
> >
> > This is a good discussion.
> >
> > In Diane's example, the computers are closed by policy. So
> > some of them
> > have AT installed on them (built into them before they are
> closed).
> > Thus they would meet 'closed system' access requirements
> because they
> > met the built in accessibility (by added AT) before they
> were closed.
> > Or rather, in their "closed state" they meet all the closed product
> > guidelines.
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> > -- ------------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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