Thread Subject: Re: Group D: 22(d) Readable without stylesheets

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From: Richard Schwerdtfeger
Date: Wed, Jan 03 2007 7:05 AM

>In WCAG this is handled by whether CSS is in the baseline or not.

CSS is now on over 50% of all web sites. It, like JavaScript has had steady
growth since 2001:

http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/man.200607/techpen.html

The use of it and JavaScript will continue to grow the more companies move
to Web 2.0 technologies from static HTML.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer



"Walser, Kate"
<Kate_Walser@sra.
com> To
Sent by: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
teitac-websoftwar < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
itac.org cc

Subject
12/19/2006 01:35 Re: [teitac-websoftware] Group D:
PM 22(d) Readable without stylesheets


Please respond to
TEITAC
Web/Software
Subcommittee
<teitac-websoftwa
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
g>






Jim Thatcher proposed:
(Meaningful sequence) When the sequence in which content is presented
affects its meaning, a correct reading sequence can be programmatically
determined.

Gregg replied:
In WCAG this is handled by whether CSS is in the baseline or not. The
question then becomes - is CSS so widely supported that it would ALSWAYS
be in the baseline? If yes - then we can remove it and no difference.
If not - then removing it would cause divergence from WCAG.

Kate asks and adds:
- Did we ever clearly define baseline? We've been using it heavily on
the list but I know I still have some questions about what it means in
general and what it means for our efforts.
- With respect to whether CSS is widely supported - it is, but not all
are using it. There will always be those behind the curve (including
older applications agencies must maintain and update), so I don't know
that we can make the assumption that everything being developed,
procured, maintained, or used by agencies uses CSS.
- What's the best way to track some of the examples / details that may
no longer be standards but will be helpful in providing some ideas to
agencies and everyone else about what we meant with the standard? Some
of the proposed standards will be a bit less clear as we try to
generalize them. If we can capture examples / details now of how you
might address the standards, it will put us much further ahead later.

Best regards,
Kate

--
Kate Walser
Director, Usability Center of Excellence
SRA International, Inc.
4300 Fair Lakes Court
Fairfax, VA 22033

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:45 PM
To: 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Group D: 22(d) Readable without
stylesheets

In WCAG this is handled by whether CSS is in the baseline or not. The
question then becomes - is CSS so widely supported that it would ALSWAYS
be
in the baseline? If yes - then we can remove it and no difference.
If
not - then removing it would cause divergence from WCAG.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Jim Thatcher
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:57 AM
> To: 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Group D: 22(d) Readable
> without stylesheets
>
> Current wording. 1194.22(d) Documents shall be organized so
> they are readable without requiring an associated style sheet.
>
> The discussion on the list on this item 1194.22(d) (Readable
> without style
> sheets) has been succinctly summarized by Andi on the wiki,
> http://teitac.org/wiki/Web_and_Software:_Correct_coding#22.28d
> .29. On the last call (12/13) I took the action item to
> submit a proposal relative to this provision.
>
> Proposal: Delete provision 1194.22(d) (Readable without style sheets).
>
> The problem is that it is possible with CSS positioning to
> wreak havoc on the source code order of the content and the
> order can be meaningful. Thus following WCAG 2.0 we need a
> provision that guarantees that AT can come up with a
> meaningful reading order. The following proposal takes the
> wording from the current WCAG 2.0 Editors Draft
> (http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/).
>
> Proposal: (Meaningful sequence) When the sequence in which
> content is presented affects its meaning, a correct reading
> sequence can be programmatically determined.
>
> This proposal is also added to the Wiki - the agenda for the
> 12/20 meeting
> (http://teitac.org/wiki/Web_and_Software:December_20#Agenda).
>
> Jim Thatcher
> 512-306-0931
> Accessibility Consulting
> http://jimthatcher.com
>
>

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