Thread Subject: Re: Web Gaps - keyboard operation

Note

This archival content is maintained by WebAIM and NCDAE on behalf of TEITAC and the U.S. Access Board . Additional details on the updates to section 508 and section 255 can be found at the Access Board web site.

From: Sean Hayes
Date: Thu, Jan 18 2007 2:15 PM

Yes Photoshop allows scripting, albeit not with LISP.

So, if you are saying that:

(define (my-make-new-image)
(let* ((image (car (gimp-image-new 256 256 RGB)))
(layer (car (gimp-layer-new image 256 256
RGB-IMAGE "foobar" 100 NORMAL-MODE))))
(gimp-drawable-fill layer BG-IMAGE-FILL)
(gimp-image-add-layer image layer 0)
(gimp-display-new image)
image))

[extracted from GIMP-FU ]

Is an acceptable keyboard replacement for drawing a word on a grey background then the argument is going in a direction I had not anticipated, and in that case yes I accept it is possible to provide keyboard access to all functions of software.

I still assert however, that it is not possible to recreate the nuance of a human performance using such a system. If this aspect is not a requirement, and it is not intended that this provision imply that the features necessarily be usable to facilitate equal performance using the software (or even usable at all except by programmers) then I'm happy to continue with the existing text.

[I note that the red-eye removal script does require the user to select the red pupils first, btw]

Sean Hayes
Standards and Policy Team
Accessible Technology Group
Microsoft
Phone:
mob +44 7977 455002
office +44 117 9719730

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Robinson, Norman B - Washington, DC
Sent: 18 January 2007 20:43
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Web Gaps - keyboard operation

I don't know in how to tell you to do such a thing in Photoshop. What I can tell you is that it is possible (perhaps not with Photoshop). If you want an example of something to work with and debate, what about Script-fu and The Gimp (http://www.seul.org/~grumbel/gimp/script-fu/script-fu-tut.html#intro)?
This is a scripting extension that allows you to manipulate graphic images. It has been used on web sites to automatically perform image functions. Perhaps a better example would be a working script that performs red-eye removal technique:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6567

My point being that I don't have to be specific to insist the Section
508 standards allow such a thing (but hopefully I provided useful examples for your consideration).

Regards,

Norman B. Robinson
Section 508 Coordinator
IT Governance, US Postal Service
phone: 202.268.8246


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David Poehlman
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:15 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Web Gaps - keyboard operation


If I use the smudge tool in photoshop to blend colors, how do we do this effectively without the visual component?

On Jan 18, 2007, at 12:08 PM, Robinson, Norman B - Washington, DC wrote:

Gregg,

I have to say I like the existing language used in software and operating systems as well, so I agree with Don.

For the benefit of the new readers that language is: (a) When software is designed to run on a system that has a keyboard, products functions shall be executable from a keyboard where the function itself or the result of the function can be discerned textually.

I would like to understand your examples. Finger painting isn't electronic & information technology (E&IT). Flying a helicopter real-time isn't E&IT. Computer aided design (CAD) is E&IT. I could design a system that would allow electronic finger painting using a touch pad. I could design it such as there are text equivalents for all the functions and provide it accessibly. I can design a system to fly a helicopter via E&IT. I can make it accessible. I can make CAD functions accessible. Please help me understand your example and thus your arguments.

Finally, do you think the existing preamble is a good example? I note the recommendation for a explanation. Perhaps in the refresh it would be useful to have clearer direction to consult the preamble during the interpretation of the technical standards. On that note, I would like to specifically recommend that the preamble eliminate discussion in the response justifying inaccessibility; software exists that allows "selection of a paintbrush, picking a color, and drawing a design". The difficulty is not what is important, that is a value judgment I don't want to see continued in the refresh. (See Preamble discussion on
1194.21(a) via
http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/preamble.htm#Subpart%20B for more information).

Regards,


Norman B. Robinson
Section 508 Coordinator
IT Governance, US Postal Service
phone: 202.268.8246


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:39 PM
To: 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Web Gaps - keyboard operation


Hmmmm. It does sound a little arcane. However it is in fact the real problem. We can create keyboard access except when the input required is analog in nature (not a discreet item) and has a time dependent aspect to it (so you can't just type in numbers to specify an analog number).

Finger painting is one example. Flying a helicopter in real time is
another.

CAD is not.

The problem with the existing text is that the problem isn't whether you can describe the task or output in text. It is whether the action actually
requires input that cannot be done from a keyboard. I have had people
think we were talking about voice control or natural language control by typing into the keyboard. That was really confusing to them. I also have people saying that with enough words you can describe anything. And any limit on words raises the question of why that number of words. So I don't think the current wording does either.


Maybe we go with the new words and a good description to explain?


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Barrett, Don
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:48 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Web Gaps - keyboard operation
>
> Sorry, but I am not sure "time-dependent analogue input"
> really gets at the issue. Actually, I think it avoids the issue by
> using an intimidating arcane phrase which no developer I have ever
> worked with will understand. And when they ask me what it means, I
> will have to use phrases which should have been in the standard in the
> first place. It confuses rather than clarifies.
>
> I missed the call, but what's wrong with the standard as it exists
> now.
>

WebAIM is an initiative of:
Center for Persons with Disabilities (CPD) Utah State University