Thread Subject: Re: 1194.23(k)(2)

Note

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From: Randy Marsden (Home)
Date: Sat, Mar 10 2007 10:45 AM

So, we¹ve established that the word ³tight² can be used as an adverb for
grasping, pinching, twisting, (and my controller¹s purse-strings ­ although
then it would technically be an adjective). <grin>

But as it relates to 1194.23(k)(2), can we agree that we want to make the
clause as strong as possible by not limiting it to only ³tight² pinching and
³tight² twisting? We would accomplish this by simply moving ³tight
grasping² to the end of the list. If we make the word ³tight² apply to all
the actions listed, I believe it would result in a weakening of the existing
508 provision, which the Access Board has directed us not to do.

-Randy



------------------------------------------------
Randy Marsden
President & CEO, Madentec Limited
ATIA Global Policy Chair

780-450-8926 ext. 223
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

>
> From: "Gregg Vanderheiden" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: "TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:23:56 -0600
> To: "'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee'"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>

> Grin
>
>
>
> I was talking about the INTENT of the rule. Not what someone interpreted it
> to mean. If we want to use legal interpretations to write our regs then we
> have to also allow Braille as a method for deaf people to get access.
>
>
>
> We are now writing the revision to the Regulations. When we see things like
> ³tight twisting of the wrist² like you just pointed out it should remove our
> doubts that we should change the way this is worded so that it can't be
> misinterpreted.
>
>
>
> In that case they should have been talking about ³tight grasping². You
> don't need to pinch the towel to get it out. You need to grasp and pull it.
> A ?pinching¹ motion can be used to grasp the paper towel but ?pinching¹ is not
> required.
>
>
>
> How / where did you find this ruling? Is there a collection like this
> somewhere? It would be of great value to the group here.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Thomas Albin
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:06 AM
>> To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>>
>> I respectully disagree. In a lawsuit filed by the Department of Justice and
>> then settled by agreement, the following statement appears: "The paper towel
>> dispenser is inaccessible because the controls require tight twisting of the
>> wrist or tight pinching to advance the paper." Clearly the Department of
>> Justice, the Court and the Defendant believe that "tight" modifies twisting
>> and pinching and grasping. The reference is "SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
>> UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND WASHINGTON COUNTY, UTAH UNDER THE AMERICANS WITH
>> DISABILITIES ACT DJ 204-77-63".
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Albin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 10, 2007, at 12:38 AM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Debbie,
>>
>>
>>
>> The gripping isn't one of the items.
>>
>>
>>
>> The three provisions are
>>
>>
>>
>> Grasping
>>
>> Pinching
>>
>> Twisting
>>
>>
>>
>> "tight can't apply to all three. Tight twisting doesn't make sense.
>>
>>
>>
>> And pinching doesn't work even if light. It just is outside the ability of
>>
>> many people with different disabilities.
>>
>>
>>
>> Only grasping is allowed and only if not tight.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Make sense?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>> -- ------------------------------
>>
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>>
>>> Debbie Cook
>>>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:27 PM
>>>
>>> To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't support the proposed change. I believe "tight"
>>>
>>> applies to all of the actions. No tight gripping, no tight
>>>
>>> grasping etc.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: "Thomas Albin" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>> To: "TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee"
>>>
>>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:22 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to be such a broken record on this, but I still don't
>>>
>>> understand whether or not a decision was made regarding the
>>>
>>> recommendation to the committee regarding 1194.23(k)(2). It
>>>
>>> was originally proposed to leave the language as currently
>>>
>>> written in 508, e.g. "...and shall not require tight
>>>
>>> grasping, pinching or twisting of the wrist" . I thought
>>>
>>> that I heard a decision to re- word this as "...and shall not
>>>
>>> require pinching, twisting of the
>>>
>>> wrist or tight grasping"? Was a decision made regarding this?
>>>
>>> Tom Albin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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