Thread Subject: Re: 1194.23(k)(2)

Note

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From: Thomas Albin
Date: Sun, Mar 11 2007 5:10 PM

No, I don't think that there was agreement to revise the
interpretation of this wording. I think that the original intent was
to preserve it as it was; i.e. where tight modified grasp, twist and
pinch. Frankly, it allows some wiggle room for interpretation.

Secondly, and again respectfully, I don't think that it was someone
arbitrarily interpreting what was meant. For example, we might want
to consider that the Access Board interpreted tight as modifying
grasping, twisting, and pinching, see(http://www.access-board.gov/
sec508/telecomm-course.htm).

Courts exist to argue what the intent is or was and we have to live
with what they determine, regardless of what we thought or intended
to mean. We certainly want to make our language and intent as clear
as possible.

Do we really mean to say that we will allow no twisting of the wrist
while using a control or key? If so, then what do we mean by
twisting? Do we want to say that there should be no Pronation/
supination, flexion/extension, radial/ulnar deviation while keying?
If we say no twisting, then I think that is how the revision will be
interpreted. Of course that then leaves open the question as to what
the fixed value should be.

Tom

On Mar 10, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Randy Marsden (Home) wrote:

> So, weâve established that the word âtightâ can be used as an
> adverb for grasping, pinching, twisting, (and my controllerâs purse-
> strings â although then it would technically be an adjective). <grin>
>
> But as it relates to 1194.23(k)(2), can we agree that we want to
> make the clause as strong as possible by not limiting it to only
> âtightâ pinching and âtightâ twisting? We would accomplish this by
> simply moving âtight graspingâ to the end of the list. If we make
> the word âtightâ apply to all the actions listed, I believe it
> would result in a weakening of the existing 508 provision, which
> the Access Board has directed us not to do.
>
> -Randy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> Randy Marsden
> President & CEO, Madentec Limited
> ATIA Global Policy Chair
>
> 780-450-8926 ext. 223
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>>
>> From: "Gregg Vanderheiden" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Reply-To: "TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee"
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:23:56 -0600
>> To: "'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee'" <teitac-
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>>
>
>> Grin
>>
>>
>>
>> I was talking about the INTENT of the rule. Not what someone
>> interpreted it to mean. If we want to use legal interpretations
>> to write our regs then we have to also allow Braille as a method
>> for deaf people to get access.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are now writing the revision to the Regulations. When we see
>> things like âtight twisting of the wristâ like you just pointed
>> out it should remove our doubts that we should change the way this
>> is worded so that it can't be misinterpreted.
>>
>>
>>
>> In that case they should have been talking about âtight
>> graspingâ. You don't need to pinch the towel to get it
>> out. You need to grasp and pull it. A âpinchingâ motion can be
>> used to grasp the paper towel but âpinchingâ is not required.
>>
>>
>>
>> How / where did you find this ruling? Is there a collection like
>> this somewhere? It would be of great value to the group here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Gregg
>> -- ------------------------------
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:teitac-
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Thomas Albin
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:06 AM
>>> To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>>>
>>> I respectully disagree. In a lawsuit filed by the Department of
>>> Justice and then settled by agreement, the following statement
>>> appears: "The paper towel dispenser is inaccessible because the
>>> controls require tight twisting of the wrist or tight pinching to
>>> advance the paper." Clearly the Department of Justice, the Court
>>> and the Defendant believe that "tight" modifies twisting and
>>> pinching and grasping. The reference is "SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT
>>> BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND WASHINGTON COUNTY, UTAH
>>> UNDER THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT DJ 204-77-63".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom Albin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 10, 2007, at 12:38 AM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Debbie,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The gripping isn't one of the items.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The three provisions are
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Grasping
>>>
>>> Pinching
>>>
>>> Twisting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "tight can't apply to all three. Tight twisting doesn't make sense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And pinching doesn't work even if light. It just is outside the
>>> ability of
>>>
>>> many people with different disabilities.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Only grasping is allowed and only if not tight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Make sense?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gregg
>>>
>>> -- ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>>
>>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>>>
>>>> Debbie Cook
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:27 PM
>>>>
>>>> To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't support the proposed change. I believe "tight"
>>>>
>>>> applies to all of the actions. No tight gripping, no tight
>>>>
>>>> grasping etc.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: "Thomas Albin" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>>
>>>> To: "TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee"
>>>>
>>>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:22 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [teitac-hardware] 1194.23(k)(2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to be such a broken record on this, but I still don't
>>>>
>>>> understand whether or not a decision was made regarding the
>>>>
>>>> recommendation to the committee regarding 1194.23(k)(2). It
>>>>
>>>> was originally proposed to leave the language as currently
>>>>
>>>> written in 508, e.g. "...and shall not require tight
>>>>
>>>> grasping, pinching or twisting of the wrist" . I thought
>>>>
>>>> that I heard a decision to re- word this as "...and shall not
>>>>
>>>> require pinching, twisting of the
>>>>
>>>> wrist or tight grasping"? Was a decision made regarding this?
>>>>
>>>> Tom Albin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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