Thread Subject: Re: Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description

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From: Jagbell
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 3:35 PM

While I agree with everything that Karen states, we want to ensure
that the captions don't bounce around like a ping pong ball. If
banners are used throughout the programming, it forces the captions
to bounce around which is very irritating to all viewers or to run
across a person's face. American Idol is a prime example of this issue.

My understanding from speaking to multiple captioning companies is
that it takes so much marketing to get companies to caption their
product that no marketing representative is going to raise this issue
for fear of losing the business. Thus, the captioning companies
cannot say to production companies that multiple banners creates an
inferior captioning product. If the captioning company does, the
production company will take their business to another captioner.
Without a regulation in place, another captioning company who has
lower standards will not raise the issue and will run the captions
across the face. The regulation prevents this "issue shopping".

Ultimately, the only person who loses is the person who needs the
captioning.


Janice L. Schacter
Executive Director
Deafness Research Foundation

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On Mar 15, 2007, at 7:23 PM, Karen Peltz Strauss wrote:

> I think the important point here is that captions should not block
> faces or important content, not that the captions always have to be
> at the bottom of the screen. The deaf community fought hard to not
> have captions and other text (such as people's names during
> interviews) block each other at the bottom of the screen, and
> programmers were accommodating by moving the captions to other
> parts of the screen. Also, when there are 2 people on the screen,
> it is often beneficial to have the captions appear near where the
> speaker is speaking - this allows viewers to know who is talking: a
> VERY HELPFUL feature that I don't think people who cannot hear want
> to give up. In fact, when the FCC was considering new rules for
> digital captioning, the deaf community urged the FCC to allow users
> to have the capability to position captions themselves. While
> ultimately this was not in the final rule, it shows that the
> community saw a benefit in being able to have captions in various
> places on the screen (and not just the bottom third).
>
> Unfortunately, however, lately I have in fact noticed (as Janice
> has) that captions are blocking faces with increasing frequency -
> perhaps because of the little graphics for each station at the
> bottom. But the answer is not to always require captions at the
> bottom. Again, I suggest it would be preferable to make clear that
> captions should not block faces or other important material on the
> screen. (Also, remember that whatever we decide upon in this 508
> rule will not affect the television captioning required by the FCC,
> although it could set precedent for future FCC rule changes.)
>
> I would be interested in hearing from WGBH on this point, and am
> cc'ing Larry and Geoff for this purpose.
>
> Karen Strauss
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deborah Buck
> To: 'TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee'
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
> It appears that we have some disparate opinions on this issue. I
> encourage other members of the workgroup to weigh in. We will
> gather the responses and hopefully will be able to put forth a
> recommendation. Keep in mind that the request for this definition
> came from the audio/video group and that workgroup is also vetting
> language for consideration.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:teitac-
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jagbell
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:58 PM
> To: TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
>
> They shouldn't.
>
>
>
> Janice L. Schacter
>
> Executive Director
>
> Deafness Research Foundation
>
>
> THIS TRANSMISSION MAY BE PRIVILEGED AND MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL
> INFORMATION
>
> INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSON(S) NAMED ABOVE. ANY OTHER DISTRIBUTION,
>
> RE-TRANSMISSION, COPYING OR DISCLOSURE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF
> YOU HAVE
>
> RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY ME IMMEDIATELY BY
>
> TELEPHONE OR RETURN E-MAIL AND DELETE THIS FILE/MESSAGE FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 3:31 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>
>
>
>
> My suggestion was below that. I was just quoting what was in the
> report first.
>
>
> No – captions, can and do appear anywhere.
>
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:teitac-
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Deborah Buck
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:02 AM
> To: 'TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
> Playing devils advocate- Will captions ALWAYS appear in the lower
> third of the screen? Doesn’t, or in the future won’t, the user
> have the ability to control where the captions appear? If we put
> this in the definition – does it limit the technology and use?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:teitac-
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jagbell
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:18 AM
> To: TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
>
> Please see my suggestion below in red.
>
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:43 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>
>
> This one clearly is in scope (grin)
>
> Let me list the questions/ issues and then propose fixes where I
> can find them.
>
> Captioning
> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
> presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear in the
> lower third of the screen as written representation of onscreen
> audio narration or spoken dialogue, Captions are similar to
> subtitles, but also convey non-dialogue auditory information that
> is important to the video, such as on- and off-screen sound
> effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the images
> on the screen.
>
> 1) the phrase “onscreen audio narration or spoken dialog” has
> two problems
>
> a. first – it messes with my head to think of ‘on screen
> audio”. On-screen is a visual place – the audio comes from
> somewhere else.
>
> b. Second – captions also cover audio that comes from people
> and events that are offscreen.
>
> 2) Since we are trying to be international, you should know
> that in the United Kingdom (multiple countries) the term captions
> is not used. Subtitles is what they call both our captions and our
> subtitles.
>
> So I would suggest a slight edit as follows. (But Larry and Geoff
> should check this – they look at this more than I do)
>
> Captioning
> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
> presented in an audio track. Captions appear as written
> representation of audio narration or spoken dialogue, and other
> important audio events. Captions are similar to alternate
> language subtitles that are synchronized with the images on the
> screen, except that they are in the same language as the audio and
> also convey non-dialogue auditory information that is important to
> the video, such as on- and off-screen sound effects, music, and
> laughter.
>
>
> Gregg
>
> ------------------------
>
> Gregg Vanderheiden
>
>

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