Thread Subject: Re: Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONSdescription

From: Larry Goldberg
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 5:35 PM

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Yes, Geoff says it all.

So where would such a parameter regarding * recommended practice * be
appended? For instance, is there a place where it says alt-text tags must
be fully descriptive or do the regs just say you must just add them?

The definition could include an additional phrase to make it:

"Captions are text displayed on screen in the same language as
the audio, synchronized with the multimedia, and POSITIONED TO AVOID
OBSCURING ESSENTIAL ON-SCREEN INFORMATION. They represent not only speech,
but also non-speech elements such as sound effects or speaker
identification. In some countries, captions are known as subtitles."

Now including the AV Subcommittee...

- Larry


geoff freed wrote:

>
> Karen makes all the right points: captions should *not* be limited to any
> one region. To do so would be a giant step backwards, in my view. A clause
> that says captions should not cover important information or faces would be
> a reasonable thing to include in the regulations. Keep in mind that with
> digital captioning, there are many options for caption placement not
> available in broadcast captioning, therefore giving the author more options
> for avoiding important on-screen information. These include putting the
> captions in a separate region adjacent to the video region (a common
> technique in use today) or even overlaying the captions on a transparent
> background over the video region.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Karen Peltz Strauss [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:24 PM
> To: TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee
> Cc: Larry Goldberg; geoff freed
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
>
> I think the important point here is that captions should not block faces or
> important content, not that the captions always have to be at the bottom of
> the screen. The deaf community fought hard to not have captions and other
> text (such as people's names during interviews) block each other at the
> bottom of the screen, and programmers were accommodating by moving the
> captions to other parts of the screen. Also, when there are 2 people on the
> screen, it is often beneficial to have the captions appear near where the
> speaker is speaking - this allows viewers to know who is talking: a VERY
> HELPFUL feature that I don't think people who cannot hear want to give up.
> In fact, when the FCC was considering new rules for digital captioning, the
> deaf community urged the FCC to allow users to have the capability to
> position captions themselves. While ultimately this was not in the final
> rule, it shows that the community saw a benefit in being able to have
> captions in various places on the screen (and not just the bottom third).
>
> Unfortunately, however, lately I have in fact noticed (as Janice has) that
> captions are blocking faces with increasing frequency - perhaps because of
> the little graphics for each station at the bottom. But the answer is not
> to always require captions at the bottom. Again, I suggest it would be
> preferable to make clear that captions should not block faces or other
> important material on the screen. (Also, remember that whatever we decide
> upon in this 508 rule will not affect the television captioning required by
> the FCC, although it could set precedent for future FCC rule changes.)
>
> I would be interested in hearing from WGBH on this point, and am cc'ing
> Larry and Geoff for this purpose.
>
> Karen Strauss
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deborah <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > Buck
> To: 'TEITAC Subpart A <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subcommittee'
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
>
> It appears that we have some disparate opinions on this issue. I encourage
> other members of the workgroup to weigh in. We will gather the responses and
> hopefully will be able to put forth a recommendation. Keep in mind that the
> request for this definition came from the audio/video group and that
> workgroup is also vetting language for consideration.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jagbell
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:58 PM
> To: TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
>
>
> They shouldn't.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Janice L. Schacter
>
> Executive Director
>
> Deafness Research Foundation
>
>
>
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>
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 3:31 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> My suggestion was below that. I was just quoting what was in the report
> first.
>
>
>
> No - captions, can and do appear anywhere.
>
>
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Deborah Buck
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:02 AM
> To: 'TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
> Playing devils advocate- Will captions ALWAYS appear in the lower third of
> the screen? Doesn't, or in the future won't, the user have the ability to
> control where the captions appear? If we put this in the definition - does
> it limit the technology and use?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jagbell
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:18 AM
> To: TEITAC Subpart A Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-subparta] Subpart A- Draft - CAPTIONS description
>
>
>
> Please see my suggestion below in red.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:43 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>
>
>
> This one clearly is in scope (grin)
>
> Let me list the questions/ issues and then propose fixes where I can find
> them.
>
> Captioning
> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is presented
> on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear in the lower third of the
> screen as written representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken
> dialogue, Captions are similar to subtitles, but also convey non-dialogue
> auditory information that is important to the video, such as on- and
> off-screen sound effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the
> images on the screen.
>
> 1) the phrase "onscreen audio narration or spoken dialog" has two
> problems
>
> a. first - it messes with my head to think of 'on screen audio".
> On-screen is a visual place - the audio comes from somewhere else.
>
> b. Second - captions also cover audio that comes from people and events
> that are offscreen.
>
> 2) Since we are trying to be international, you should know that in the
> United Kingdom (multiple countries) the term captions is not used.
> Subtitles is what they call both our captions and our subtitles.
>
> So I would suggest a slight edit as follows. (But Larry and Geoff should
> check this - they look at this more than I do)
>
> Captioning
> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is presented
> in an audio track. Captions appear as written representation of audio
> narration or spoken dialogue, and other important audio events. Captions
> are similar to alternate language subtitles that are synchronized with the
> images on the screen, except that they are in the same language as the audio
> and also convey non-dialogue auditory information that is important to the
> video, such as on- and off-screen sound effects, music, and laughter.
>
>
> Gregg
>
> ------------------------
>
> Gregg Vanderheiden
>
>

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