Expanding the web's potential for people with disabilities

Getting Started

Introduction to web accessibility

WebAIM Training

September 17-18
Training Details

From the Blog

Community

You are here: Home > TEITAC Archives > Mailing List Archives

Thread Subject: Re: Bypassing content.

Note

This archival content is maintained by WebAIM and NCDAE on behalf of TEITAC and the U.S. Access Board . Additional details on the updates to section 508 and section 255 can be found at the Access Board web site.

From: Peter Wallack
Date: Wed, Jun 13 2007 3:30 PM

Return to this mailing list's archives
View all messages in this thread
Next message in thread: Peter Wallack: "Re: Bypassing content."
Previous message in thread: Peter Wallack: "Re: Bypassing content."
Messages sorted by: Author | Thread | Date

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
This is hardly the only one that affects the L&F - what about the
need for properly contrasting colors, color not used as the only way to
convey info, legible font sizes, etc. I do concede though that this is
the only one that requires additional content to be visible on the
page. 
 
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Peter Wallack
Accessibility Program Director
Oracle Corporation</pre>
 
 
Tom Brett wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPu4vK2NeatItIaNZjith8jCgAAAEAAAAP79%2FyR9AIdFryGHZPNcnW4BAAAAAA==@comcast.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PostalCode">
<o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City">
<o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street">
<o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="address">
<style>

</style>
</o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType>
<div class="Section1">
This
should be a very interesting selling
exercise to the Agency Web Content Managers.  The current standards
apply
to the developer.  The ones responsible for the look and feel generally
are
not the same group of people.  By mandating that the skip nav links be
visible we would be moving into the area of content.  <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
The
Content Managers will probably be
located in the PR department of the agency.  They would be the ones
responsible to the agency head for the look and feel of the agency
website.  I suspect that this group will ask if they can display a
portal
page that would allow the visitor to select if they want visible or
invisible
navigational links.  Of course doing that would mean that the
developers
would need to maintain 2 sets of pages but it would resolve the
political issue
of an ugly page.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
<div>
Tom Brett<o:p></o:p>
 <o:p></o:p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-align: center;"
align="center">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div>
From:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>]
On Behalf Of Peter
Wallack 
Sent: Wednesday, June
13, 2007
4:55 PM 
To: Katie
Haritos-Shea; TEITAC
Web/Software Subcommittee 
Subject: Re:
[teitac-websoftware]
Bypassing content.<o:p></o:p>
</div>
<o:p> </o:p>
I
believe the
over-arching goal of our standards is to create a world where all
content is
accessible. Thus, if we mandate that it be visible then every site
should be
'equally ugly' (if one deems a SkipNav link as ugly), removing any
argument
that it might detract from sales or visitors. On the other hand, if
every site
indeed did have it, then keeping it invisible would be just fine too.
On the other
other hand, the best solution is still that every browser provides a
mechanism
to accomplish the same goal. But until we reach utopia (probably not in
my
lifetime), I vote for keeping it visible. 
 
<o:p></o:p>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Peter Wallack<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Accessibility Program Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Oracle Corporation<o:p></o:p></pre>
 
 
Katie Haritos-Shea wrote: <o:p></o:p>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;" wrap="">As far as the visual appearance of 'skip to main content' links affecting the page real estate........<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">I think we all understand the hard-sell issues, but that shouldn't keep us from requiring and defining the functionality we know is useful and important for *all* persons with disabilities, to cover as many needs as possible.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">One could argue that sitemaps, redundant links (ie for image maps), table captions, white space/spacing requirements, even the semantic structure (h#), affect visual page real estate and possibly some cognitive understanding. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Have these not been useful tools towards our goal of providing accessibility standards? Has this not steered AT and IT development in the right direction?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">My point is that....though visual 'skip to main content' links (as one method of meeting this requirement) can indeed be a hard sell, it should not stop us from requiring what we know will assist users in acheiving comparable access.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Katie Haritos-Shea<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">  <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;" wrap="">From: Sailesh Panchang <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Sent: Jun 12, 2007 4:54 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">To: 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee' <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">    <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;" wrap="">It is also one of the very few things that directly impact visual design<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">and that is a *VERY* big barrier for implementation in many areas. I thus<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">advocate a broader definition of "mechanisms" to allow flexibility and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">future-proofing.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">      <o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;" wrap="">I second this without hesitation. Indeed even private sector organizations<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">not covered by S508 implement invisible skip nav because it does not come in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">the way of visual design and yet helps a section of their visitors. I agree<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">that a  visible link helps some users. But a visible skip nav link like a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">visible D-link has the ability to confuse  many users who have no use for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">them. It is also a hard-sell to powers that be who are responsible for site<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">design and need accessibility-education.     <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Sailesh Panchang<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Senior Accessibility Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Deque Systems Inc. (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.deque.com">www.deque.com</a>)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
w:st="on">11130 Sunrise Valley Drive, Suite #140</st1:address></st1:Street>,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Reston</st1:City> <st1:State
w:st="on">VA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">20191</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Phone: 703-225-0380 (ext 105)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">E-mail: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;">

Next message in Thread: Peter Wallack: "Re: Bypassing content."
Previous message in Thread: Peter Wallack: "Re: Bypassing content."

WebAIM is an initiative of: