Thread Subject: Re: Bypassing content.

Note

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From: Tom Brett
Date: Mon, Jun 18 2007 1:47 PM

I must be missing something. To be programmatically determinable it would
require (so that code validators can determine if the skip nav exits) would
mean that there would need to be standard coding that every developer uses,
right? This means that a developer would not be able to use something
creative in the skip nav. They would be required to use the same coding
regardless of where they are coding (OPM, GSA, Interior, etc).



We would be developing coding standards beyond Section 508 if we do this.
We would be dictating to the developer how to code the page.







Tom Brett



_____

From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
Wallack
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:30 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.



I'd buy that!



Peter Wallack
Accessibility Program Director
Oracle Corporation



David Poehlman wrote:

I almost like this but would change it slightly thus:

Web pages shall provide a visible method that is programmatically
determinable to provide a means for navigation among blocks of content.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hoffman, Allen" <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
<mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.


The problem with skip-nav as is is that it is difficult to test in an
automated fashion as unless a consistent text is used, automated tools
have a hard time evaluating the tab order and functionality of the page
to shorten it effectively.

So:

how about:

Web pages shall provide a visible method that is programmatically
determinable to skip repetitive navigation and blocks of content.

Sufficient techniques may include:

use of anchor tags in HTML.
example should be inserted.
Use of scripting to make links visible when tabbed to.
example...
Use of tables of contents in non-HTML formats.
example...
use of scripting to appropriate direct focus dependent upon inputs.
example... yeah right.
use of consistent content block mark up such has headers.
example...







Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
Barrett, Don
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:17 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

We have accepted frames, headings, and skip nav links as methods of
meeting the standard. All the standard has required is a method to skip
repetitive nav links; it's been very generic and very helpful.


Don Barrett
Section 508 Coordinator
U.S. Department of Education
(202)-205-8245
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:12 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

The skip nav link offers very poor control - you get one option and that
is to move focus to where the link is and nowhere else.
AWK



-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
Hoffman, Allen
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:08 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

I concur with Andrew, but.

The skip-nav requirement is intended to allow the end-user more
control of directing the focus. if an application allows focus to be
moved without inefficient keyboard or other driving, then it meets the





standard already.



Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:48 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

Exactly. The concept of the skip link is a possible success
technique, but we should not skew the requirement to eliminate other
success techniques that people are able to use presently.
AWK



-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On


Behalf Of David



Poehlman
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:45 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee; Katie Haritos-Shea
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

I just know there is already methodology for dealing with


this without



using a special link though.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Wallack" <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "Katie Haritos-Shea" <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "TEITAC


Web/Software



Subcommittee" <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.


I'd argue that it's useful far beyond that. Any keyboard-only user,
such as a 'power user', would appreciate the feature. I believe it
needs to be visible until User Agents provide a standard


mechanism to


invoke it.

Peter Wallack
Accessibility Program Director
Oracle Corporation

Katie Haritos-Shea wrote:
Mike,

The visible skip nav is also useful for persons with


limited mobility,



and the AT that they use. In that case the skip nav link must be
visible.

Katie

-----Original Message-----
From: "Langum, Michael J" <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Jun 12, 2007 8:21 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.


AWK wrote:
"An invisible skip link wouldn't satisfy the Functional


perfomance


criteria,. . ."

Have I missed something?

I thought the "function" of the "skip link" was to allow


users of AT


to skip past banners, and standard navigation elements so that they
could quickly and easily get to the main content of a page. Since
sighted users can achieve the same "function" by simply


examining the


page and choosing to begin reading at whatever point they wish (and
hence don't rely on the "skip link"), I don't see how an "invisible
skip link wouldn't satisfy the Functional performance criteria."

-- Mike Langum
Asst. Webmaster, WWW.OPM.GOV
U.S. Office of Personnel Management

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