Thread Subject: Re: Bypassing content.

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From: David Poehlman
Date: Mon, Jun 18 2007 1:49 PM

Css is often used to provide styling which is visually similar to headings.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.


David, by definition, headings can't be "marked up" in css. What do you
mean?



---
Andrew Kirkpatrick

Corporate Accessibility Engineering Lead

Adobe Systems

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

617.219.2209

-----Original Message-----
From: David Poehlman [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 02:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

when headers are marked up in css, jaws does not recognize them.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hoffman, Allen" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.


I do think headers are visible as a means of navigating content since
both via the browser one can set how they appear, and by .css it can be
done as well. Assistive technology does generally provide for various
navigation by tag types now as a rule.




Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:17 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

I almost like this but would change it slightly thus:

Web pages shall provide a visible method that is programmatically
determinable to provide a means for navigation among blocks of content.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hoffman, Allen" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.


The problem with skip-nav as is is that it is difficult to test in an
automated fashion as unless a consistent text is used, automated tools
have a hard time evaluating the tab order and functionality of the page
to shorten it effectively.

So:

how about:

Web pages shall provide a visible method that is programmatically
determinable to skip repetitive navigation and blocks of content.

Sufficient techniques may include:

use of anchor tags in HTML.
example should be inserted.
Use of scripting to make links visible when tabbed to.
example...
Use of tables of contents in non-HTML formats.
example...
use of scripting to appropriate direct focus dependent upon inputs.
example... yeah right.
use of consistent content block mark up such has headers.
example...







Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
Barrett, Don
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:17 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

We have accepted frames, headings, and skip nav links as methods of
meeting the standard. All the standard has required is a method to skip
repetitive nav links; it's been very generic and very helpful.


Don Barrett
Section 508 Coordinator
U.S. Department of Education
(202)-205-8245
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:12 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.

The skip nav link offers very poor control - you get one option and that
is to move focus to where the link is and nowhere else.
AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Hoffman, Allen
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:08 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.
>
> I concur with Andrew, but.
>
> The skip-nav requirement is intended to allow the end-user more
> control of directing the focus. if an application allows focus to be
> moved without inefficient keyboard or other driving, then it meets the

> standard already.
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:48 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.
>
> Exactly. The concept of the skip link is a possible success
> technique, but we should not skew the requirement to eliminate other
> success techniques that people are able to use presently.
> AWK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of David
>
> > Poehlman
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:45 PM
> > To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee; Katie Haritos-Shea
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.
> >
> > I just know there is already methodology for dealing with
> this without
>
> > using a special link though.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Wallack" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > To: "Katie Haritos-Shea" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "TEITAC
> Web/Software
>
> > Subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.
> >
> >
> > I'd argue that it's useful far beyond that. Any keyboard-only user,
> > such as a 'power user', would appreciate the feature. I believe it
> > needs to be visible until User Agents provide a standard
> mechanism to
> > invoke it.
> >
> > Peter Wallack
> > Accessibility Program Director
> > Oracle Corporation
> >
> > Katie Haritos-Shea wrote:
> > Mike,
> >
> > The visible skip nav is also useful for persons with
> limited mobility,
>
> > and the AT that they use. In that case the skip nav link must be
> > visible.
> >
> > Katie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Sent: Jun 12, 2007 8:21 AM
> > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Bypassing content.
> >
> >
> > AWK wrote:
> > "An invisible skip link wouldn't satisfy the Functional
> perfomance
> > criteria,. . ."
> >
> > Have I missed something?
> >
> > I thought the "function" of the "skip link" was to allow
> users of AT
> > to skip past banners, and standard navigation elements so that they
> > could quickly and easily get to the main content of a page. Since
> > sighted users can achieve the same "function" by simply
> examining the
> > page and choosing to begin reading at whatever point they wish (and
> > hence don't rely on the "skip link"), I don't see how an "invisible
> > skip link wouldn't satisfy the Functional performance criteria."
> >
> > -- Mike Langum
> > Asst. Webmaster, WWW.OPM.GOV
> > U.S. Office of Personnel Management
> >
> >
> >

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