Thread Subject: Re: Provide highly visible keyboard focus and text cursors

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From: Sean Hayes
Date: Wed, Jun 27 2007 5:25 PM

On the web I think you can only rely on the browser if you use HTML with no additional styling, if you do style your elements then I think that puts the onus on you to either test to ensure the default keyboard focus indication works well with your styling on the browsers you provide the style for; or you override the keyboard style yourself in a manner in keeping with the rest of your style.

Similar arguments I think would apply to other app/platform combinations.

To Peter K's point, which I agree with; I'm not 100% convinced that the provision is completely outcome based as written. For example, moving the cursor is the reason this ability to locate is needed, thus if the enhanced location was a side effect of this movement it could not meet the wording.

In addition part of the requirement seems to be the ability to know the current context, so that I know what will happen if I hit the 'go' key (whatever that might be) - this is not necessarily provided by knowing the location of keyboard focus, it might for example be provided by a status caption if the control has some contextual modes, or as in the magnifier example, bye provided by an alternative rendering of the control in question.

Sean Hayes
Standards and Policy Team
Corporate Accessibility Group
Microsoft
Phone:
mob +44 7977 455002
office +44 117 9719730

From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter Wallack
Sent: 27 June 2007 23:37
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Provide highly visible keyboard focus and text cursors

I'm trying to figure out who is ultimately responsible for satisfying this provision. I fully recognize that if I invent my own widgets, it is entirely up to me. But if I code a simple web page today using simple components, the browser currently does *something* to indicate focus on every component. Because of that, can I safely make the assumption that the browser or OS is responsible for adhering to this provision, or am I forced to guarantee compliance myself?


Peter Wallack

Accessibility Program Director

Oracle Corporation


Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:

Agree



That is why the provision is OUTCOME oriented rather than method oriented.



It says what the outcome should be but makes not mention of how it should be

met.





Gregg

-- ------------------------------

Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.









-----Original Message-----

From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf

Of Peter Korn

Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:23 PM

To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee

Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] Provide highly visible

keyboard focus and text cursors



Gregg,



Many desktops offer a "mouse trails" option, in which the

mouse cursor briefly gets a tail or trail, where the last

~1/2 second of previous positions remain briefly on the

screen to aid in their being located. It is easy to imagine

something like Sean's control key suggestion - a mode in

which the focused item is briefly more significantly visually

indicated - aiding the user in locating it when the TAB key

is pressed.



The larger point I want to make is that there are a variety

of innovative/novel ways in which one could aid users in

visually locating the focused object on the screen. Larger

"marching ants" or other static focus indication is only one

of them. Whatever standard we put forth should be general

enough to allow for new and novel approaches, so long as they

meet the ultimate user need.





Regards,



Peter Korn

Accessibility Architect,

Sun Microsystems, Inc.





Hmmm



Boy - that is a good question. It is marginal at best. Each



time I hit



the tab key I would have to hit the control key to figure



out where it



went. Maybe if it did it each time it moved too..? But then



you have



to change focus to find it. (sounds like the uncertainty principle).



hmmmm





Gregg

-- ------------------------------

Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.









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*From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On



Behalf Of



*Sean Hayes

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:49 PM

*To:* TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee

*Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] Provide highly visible

keyboard focus and text cursors



It turns out I have my display set at 1400x1050, so that might

explain my apparent loss of visual acuity J. I think I have a

better understanding of what you are getting at now, I'll think

about it for a bit.



One more question - if the control key, or similar could be

configured to identify the focused widget in the same way as the

pointer, would that also cover it?



Sean Hayes

Standards and Policy Team

*Corporate Accessibility Group

Microsoft

*Phone:

mob +44 7977 455002

office +44 117 9719730



*From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On



Behalf Of



*Gregg Vanderheiden

*Sent:* 27 June 2007 20:35

*To:* 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'

*Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] Provide highly visible

keyboard focus and text cursors



Not sure I follow what your question/problem is.



It is possible to change the viewing size of the text.



It does not



change the cursor however.



Also, don't know about you but with my glasses on, I



can see which



side of the comma the cursor is from 2.5 meters at



default settings.



But reading the text from that distance isn't the point. People

with low vision can use close viewing to read text. But



they have



to look at the full screen to find the cursors.



For you that would be equivalent to finding the cursor



location at



2.5 meters, but reading the screen at .5 meters - or



maybe 1 meter.



The control key lets you find the mouse pointer (on windows) but

not the keyboard focus or character input.



Does this help?





Gregg

-- ------------------------------

Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.









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*From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]



*On Behalf



Of *Sean Hayes

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:19 PM

*To:* TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee

*Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] Provide highly visible

keyboard focus and text cursors



One problem I have with this wording is that at 2.5 meters

most of the UI is unintelligible (although if course that

depends on OS settings); so while /locating/ the



element with



focus may be possible; determining what the located



item /is/



would be impossible.



For example I can locate the flashing insertion



point in this



text from across the room, but determining whether it is

before or after the comma in this sentence eludes me.



So it seems like a very partial interpretation of



locate, and



I'm having a hard time understanding the user need this

provision is attempting to satisfy. Perhaps the "Windows

magnify with follow focus" mode is in fact a much better

mechanism than drowning the item with a bright



yellow triangles.



Sean Hayes

Standards and Policy Team

*Corporate Accessibility Group

Microsoft

*Phone:

mob +44 7977 455002

office +44 117 9719730



*From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]



*On Behalf



Of *Gregg Vanderheiden

*Sent:* 27 June 2007 19:28

*To:* 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'

*Subject:* [teitac-websoftware] Provide highly visible

keyboard focus and text cursors





*9.2.2 Provide highly visible keyboard



focus and text



cursors *



Software shall provide at least one mode where



keyboard focus



cursors and text cursors shall be visually



locatable by people



with unimpaired vision at 2.5 meters when software is

displayed on a 38 cm (15 inch) diagonal screen at 1024 x 768

pixels resolution, without moving the cursor.



EXAMPLE 1: The software provides an option of having a thick

rectangle of contrasting color that moves to and



outlines the



control or field that has keyboard focus.



EXAMPLE 2: The software provides an option of having bright,

yellow triangles extend from the top and bottom of the text

cursor.





Gregg



------------------------



Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.

Professor - Depts of Ind.__ Engr. & BioMed Engr.

Director - Trace R & D Center

University of Wisconsin-Madison

_<http://trace.wisc.edu/><http://trace.wisc.edu/>_ FAX 608/262-8848



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