Thread Subject: Re: FW: Revised proposal for Sec. 4. AdditionalProvisions for Audio-Visual Players or Displays

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From: Sean Hayes
Date: Wed, Aug 29 2007 10:20 AM

That's partly true. The caption data needs to be stored in a master format somewhere that can be converted to any and all play-out formats by the copyright owner. That does not imply that it needs to be converted from playback format A to playback format B by all and sundry. While it is technically possible for example to go from 708 to SAMI or vice-versa, it is fairly hard, likely a lossy conversion, and an N-squared problem to accommodate all the playback formats.

The lock in and interoperability problem today is largely due to the various proprietary subtitling equipment being used and formats at the authoring level; not with the delivery format. DFXP was created to try and build a lingua-franca at the authoring level, however it is early days for that process.

Re-authoring for various delivery formats is the practical reality for a multiplicity of reasons, codec's; aspect ratio; resolution etc. Captioning should be an ingrained part of this process, just like audio is. If we want to put 508 constraints out there to help the state of captioning, the content format and authoring tools provisions may be the place to do it. The player rules are not.

Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft

Office: +44 118 909 5867,
Mobile: +44 7875 091385


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Larry Goldberg
Sent: 29 August 2007 14:18
To: TEITAC AV list
Subject: Re: [teitac-video] FW: Revised proposal for Sec. 4. AdditionalProvisions for Audio-Visual Players or Displays

The caption data need to be interoperable, not the playback media. That is,
we can readily convert 608 to 708 to SMIL to SAMI to DFXP caption formats. A
new format developed by HD-DVD and/or BluRay to be functionally equivalent
to 708 needs to be readily transferable to and from other accepted formats.
If this is not the case, then a government agency would be forced to
re-author their captions for this special new format (anticipating that
media will be distributed in multiple formats for training and public
information).

- Larry


Sean Hayes wrote:

> What do you mean by interoperability here? And why is this an issue? the world
> is full of non interoperable systems, Flash, HTML, Java, SMIL, blah blah blah.
>
> If an agency picked VHS then they couldn't play it back on computers or DVD
> players. If they picked Flash to publish a multimedia course then they
> couldn't use a Java player to view it.
>
> If an agency wants to do electronic distribution, they would need to procure a
> complete system. If for example the agency chose to use windows media for
> something, then they would need to acquire tools that can generate, caption,
> and stream it, and players to view it. There exists many tools for importing
> and exporting various media formats if that is an issue.
>
> I don't see any new problem here which isn't true of all E&IT.
>
> Sean Hayes
> Incubation Lab
> Accessibility Business Unit
> Microsoft
>
> Office: +44 118 909 5867,
> Mobile: +44 7875 091385
>
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
> Sent: 29 August 2007 04:19
> To: 'TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] FW: Revised proposal for Sec. 4.
> AdditionalProvisions for Audio-Visual Players or Displays
>
> Thanks
>
> Couple questions about the part where you changed it to
> "Uses this standard...
> Captions or timed text (as defined by procuring agency) or display open
> caption video"
>
>
> - How would you get interoperability if each agency picks its own standards?
> - Will purchasing agents have any idea what to specify?
> - And how would a mfgr know how to design products if they don't know what
> standard will apply until the get the P.O.?
>
> Maybe I'm missing something
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>

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