Thread Subject: Re: note for focus cursor

Note

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From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Wed, Sep 12 2007 9:50 PM

One way to do this would be to only require that apps have access features.
They are welcome to use platform features if they are there.



If platforms don't provide - it would make it harder on apps - and apps
could pressure platforms for needed support where it makes sense.



But for THIN platforms - there wouldn't be a failure. Just not good
support for apps



(note that most platforms are also apps or bundle with apps so they will
have to do this anyway for themselves.






Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






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From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Schomburg,
Paul
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 5:03 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Cc: Jasionowski, Tony; Schomburg, Paul; Brooner Mary-AMB004
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor

Folks: I'd like to indicate a concern with how this requirement may be
applied to telecom or CE products that would have very thin platform
software to load applications. I think these products would not be able to
depend on the platform software to provide the desired API's because of
memory limitations. Therefore, the application would have to support all
accessibility requirements. For this reason I would prefer to retain the
language at 3-V that makes these requirements optional for "platform
software." If you mean to exclude Telecom & CE by stipulating products with
"keyboard operable user interfaces" I don't think this would completely
exclude all such products.



Thanks, Paul




_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 5:03 PM
To: 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor



Ah

Yes - you are right. I missed the second part.



Ok lets look at this approach.



"Platform software must support at least one mode that provides a highly
visual indication of which user interface object currently has the keyboard
focus. Application software that provides user interface objects must either
use the focus mode provided by the platform software or provide such a mode
directly"



This is sort of workable but the Application has to take more
responsibility. The system focus may be invisible on their background for
example.



How about





"Platform software and applications that have keyboard operable user
interfaces must support at least one mode that provides a highly visual
indication of which user interface object currently has the keyboard focus.
Application may provide the highly visible indication directly or by
utilizing the platform cursor where effective.








Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Hayes
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:53 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor

It's the 'software must provide' bit that is the problem.



Its ambiguous whether there is an implied [all] in there.



I disagree that all apps can ignore it, the way i wrote it is in two parts:



Part 2 is : Application software that provides user interface objects must
either use the focus mode provided by the platform software or provide such
a mode directly"



Where does it say, or not do anything at all?



Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft



Office: +44 118 909 5867,

Mobile: +44 7875 091385



From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: 12 September 2007 20:43
To: 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor



The "one mode that" language already allows you to use system or platform
capabilities to meet it. If the platform doesn't have them though, then the
app inherits the responsibility.





The way you wrote it - all apps can just ignore the provision since it is
restricted to the platform - even if the platform isn't providing the focus
cursor.










Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Hayes
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:10 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor

Thanks, Greg. That does address that concern.



On re-reading the provision however, I have another concern with the
section :

"Software must support at least one mode that ..."



Which implies that the application software must implement this itself, but
typically it is the platform software which provides this functionality for
applications, for example embodied in a 'widget set' or library; and even if
the application designer could override the platform behaviour, they
typically would not do so in order to fit in with the platform user
interface guidelines



In the case of a web application it may be the browser or plugin which
provides this (but not always).



Perhaps a better wording would be something along the lines of:



"Platform software must support at least one mode that provides a highly
visual indication of which user interface object currently has the keyboard
focus. Application software that provides user interface objects must either
use the focus mode provided by the platform software or provide such a mode
directly"



Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft



Office: +44 118 909 5867,

Mobile: +44 7875 091385



From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: 12 September 2007 19:39
To: 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
Subject: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor



At the very close of the meeting - I noticed that this provision does talk
about "without moving the cursor". Thus knowledge of the cursor WOULD be
required as Sean had identified. (apologies Sean). I have edited the note
below to include his comment (I think).



I also put a generic note for those who are not designing software.



* NOTE: A focus cursor that is visually locatable by people (familiar
with what the focus cursor would look like) who have 20/20 vision at 3.5
times the typical viewing distance without moving the cursor is sufficient.
* NOTE: Since computer software would be displayed on unknown screen
sizes: for computer software a focus cursor that is visually locatable by
people (familiar with the cursor) who have 20/20 vision at 2.5 meters when
software is displayed on a 38 cm (15 inch) diagonal screen at 1024 x 768
pixels resolution, without moving the cursor is sufficient.










Gregg

------------------------

Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison
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