Thread Subject: Re: note for focus cursor

Note

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From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2007 8:30 AM

Hi Peter

Sorry - I was talking shorthand rather than crafting language.

Yes - they should respect settings of OS. But if OS doesn't provide the
required setting then apps need to provide the setting themselves.
Respecting OS settings means you start out with the OS setting (or follow it
if it is changed). It doesn't mean you can't allow the user to change the
app settings. And of course, apps often create special focus cursors that
the OS can't anticipate and doesn't provide.

The 'access features' I was referring to were the features we list / discuss
in the 508 regs.

Oops - calling my flight

bye


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Peter Korn
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:12 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Cc: 'Jasionowski, Tony'; 'Brooner Mary-AMB004'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor
>
> Gregg,
>
> The term "access features" is a little imprecise.
>
> Note that 3-P "User Preferences" requires that apps respect a
> range of settings - for color, contrast, font type, font
> size, *and* focus cursor. So it isn't that apps are "welcome
> to use" these features; by this provision, they are required
> to have a mode that respects them.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > One way to do this would be to only require that apps have access
> > features. They are welcome to use platform features if they
> are there.
> >
> > If platforms don't provide - it would make it harder on apps - and
> > apps could pressure platforms for needed support where it
> makes sense.
> >
> > But for THIN platforms - there wouldn't be a failure. Just not good
> > support for apps
> >
> > (note that most platforms are also apps or bundle with apps so they
> > will have to do this anyway for themselves.
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> > -- ------------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On
> Behalf Of
> > *Schomburg, Paul
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2007 5:03 PM
> > *To:* TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > *Cc:* Jasionowski, Tony; Schomburg, Paul; Brooner Mary-AMB004
> > *Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor
> >
> > Folks: I'd like to indicate a concern with how this requirement
> > may be applied to telecom or CE products that would
> have very thin
> > platform software to load applications. I think these products
> > would not be able to depend on the platform software to provide
> > the desired API's because of memory limitations. Therefore, the
> > application would have to support all accessibility
> requirements.
> > For this reason I would prefer to retain the language
> at 3-V that
> > makes these requirements optional for "platform
> software." If you
> > mean to exclude Telecom & CE by stipulating products with
> > "keyboard operable user interfaces" I don't think this would
> > completely exclude all such products.
> >
> > Thanks, Paul
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On
> Behalf Of
> > *Gregg Vanderheiden
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2007 5:03 PM
> > *To:* 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
> > *Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor
> >
> > Ah
> >
> > Yes - you are right. I missed the second part.
> >
> > Ok lets look at this approach.
> >
> > "Platform software must support at least one mode that
> provides a
> > highly visual indication of which user interface object
> currently
> > has the keyboard focus. Application software that provides user
> > interface objects must either use the focus mode provided by the
> > platform software or provide such a mode directly"
> >
> > This is sort of workable but the Application has to take more
> > responsibility. The system focus may be invisible on their
> > background for example.
> >
> > How about
> >
> > "Platform software and applications that have keyboard operable
> > user interfaces must support at least one mode that provides a
> > highly visual indication of which user interface object
> currently
> > has the keyboard focus. Application may provide the
> highly visible
> > indication directly or by utilizing the platform cursor where
> > effective.
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> > -- ------------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> *On Behalf
> > Of *Sean Hayes
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:53 PM
> > *To:* TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > *Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor
> >
> > It's the 'software must provide' bit that is the problem.
> >
> > Its ambiguous whether there is an implied [all] in there.
> >
> > I disagree that all apps can ignore it, the way i
> wrote it is
> > in two parts:
> >
> > Part 2 is : Application software that provides user
> interface
> > objects must either use the focus mode provided by the
> > platform software or provide such a mode directly"
> >
> > Where does it say, or not do anything at all?
> >
> > Sean Hayes
> > Incubation Lab
> > *Accessibility Business Unit
> > Microsoft*
> >
> > * *
> >
> > *Office: +44 118 909 5867**, *
> >
> > *Mobile**: +44 **7875 091385*
> >
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> *On Behalf
> > Of *Gregg Vanderheiden
> > *Sent:* 12 September 2007 20:43
> > *To:* 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
> > *Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor
> >
> > The "one mode that" language already allows you to
> use system
> > or platform capabilities to meet it. If the platform doesn't
> > have them though, then the app inherits the responsibility.
> >
> > The way you wrote it - all apps can just ignore the
> provision
> > since it is restricted to the platform - even if
> the platform
> > isn't providing the focus cursor.
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> > -- ------------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On
> > Behalf Of *Sean Hayes
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:10 PM
> > *To:* TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > *Subject:* Re: [teitac-websoftware] note for
> focus cursor
> >
> > Thanks, Greg. That does address that concern.
> >
> > On re-reading the provision however, I have another
> > concern with the section :
> >
> > "Software must support at least one mode that ..."
> >
> > Which implies that the application software
> must implement
> > this itself, but typically it is the platform software
> > which provides this functionality for applications, for
> > example embodied in a 'widget set' or library;
> and even if
> > the application designer could override the platform
> > behaviour, they typically would not do so in
> order to fit
> > in with the platform user interface guidelines
> >
> > In the case of a web application it may be the
> browser or
> > plugin which provides this (but not always).
> >
> > Perhaps a better wording would be something along the
> > lines of:
> >
> > "Platform software must support at least one mode that
> > provides a highly visual indication of which user
> > interface object currently has the keyboard focus.
> > Application software that provides user
> interface objects
> > must either use the focus mode provided by the platform
> > software or provide such a mode directly"
> >
> > Sean Hayes
> > Incubation Lab
> > *Accessibility Business Unit
> > Microsoft*
> >
> > * *
> >
> > *Office: +44 118 909 5867**, *
> >
> > *Mobile**: +44 **7875 091385*
> >
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On
> > Behalf Of *Gregg Vanderheiden
> > *Sent:* 12 September 2007 19:39
> > *To:* 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
> > *Subject:* [teitac-websoftware] note for focus cursor
> >
> > At the very close of the meeting - I noticed that this
> > provision does talk about "without moving the cursor".
> > Thus knowledge of the cursor WOULD be required
> as Sean had
> > identified. (apologies Sean). I have edited the
> note below
> > to include his comment (I think).
> >
> > I also put a generic note for those who are not
> designing
> > software.
> >
> > * NOTE: A focus cursor that is visually locatable by
> > people (familiar with what the focus cursor would
> > look like) who have 20/20 vision at 3.5 times the
> > typical viewing distance without moving the cursor
> > is sufficient.
> > * NOTE: Since computer software would be
> displayed on
> > unknown screen sizes: for computer
> software a focus
> > cursor that is visually locatable by people
> > (familiar with the cursor) who have 20/20
> vision at
> > 2.5 meters when software is displayed on
> a 38 cm (15
> > inch) diagonal screen at 1024 x 768 pixels
> > resolution, without moving the cursor is
> sufficient.
> >
> >
> > * *
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> > Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> > Director - Trace R & D Center
> > University of Wisconsin-Madison
> > _<http://trace.wisc.edu/>_ FAX 608/262-8848
> >
> > DSS Player at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
> >
> > If Attachement is a mail.dat try
> > http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/
> >
> > <http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>__
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >

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