Thread Subject: Re: Resolutions from today

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From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 10:05 AM

Sorry Randy



The agenda is always posted on our Home page. Haven't been posting it
since it was the same list of topics and we just have been working down the
list from the top for the last month or two.



Next week we are handling the "No touch" provision so I was sending you a
special note to be sure you were there.




Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Randy Marsden
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:01 AM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-general] Resolutions from today

My apologies for missing yesterday's General FPC meeting. It's Closing the
Gap this week, and I am already enroute. Had we known this was on the
agenda, we most certainly would have tried to have someone on the call.
Again - my apologies. This week has to be dedicated to our day jobs for
most of the AT companies involved in TEITAC.



-Randy







On Oct 15, 2007, at 9:16 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:





After success last week in addressing the Role and 'type of access' issues
in the FPC we tackled the AT question today.

The resolution was to pass the following up for discussion by fuller group.


RESOLVED: To submit the following to the full committee for consideration

1. [E&IT] Must work with some example(s) for each type of AT sufficient
to meet the FPC and the technical provisions. The AT that E&IT must work
with is to be determined by those implementing the standard (e.g. Federal
Agencies). The AT that the product must work with is likely to be different
within agencies than it is with the general public.
2. "Work with AT" means that all information and functionality of
product is accessible but not necessarily all user interface components
(e.g. if a function can be achieved through another comparable user
interface component that would pass. Tool bar functions might be available
via menu for example ).
3. If a product works with AT except for particular aspects, the vendor
can report "Works except for the following function(s):"
4. If a product worked with AT and then stopped because of changes in
AT - the vendor could report "Works with Version X of YYY on platform ZZZ as
of Date". If the vendor knows that some particular thing no longer works
after working with AT vendor they could report it as a missing feature or
stand with dated statement.

RESOLVED: Suggestion to ATIA to publish list of tools (and develop them if
and as possible) that can be used to test for compatibility with whole
classes of AT.

It was noted that the suggestion to ATIA would probably not work for AT like
screen readers - but may be possible for USB based aids and possibly other
types of AT.

The above text resulted after much discussion and attempts to address issues
from both sides and find a balance.


Notes from meeting


NOTES from discussion


1. Does 508 apply to AT ?

* If AT provides E&IT functions (e.g., AT is a software application
such as a special talking word processor ) then the 508 technical standards
would apply.
* If AT is just an adaptation [e.g., a screen reader] then AT isn't
E&IT itself and 508 standards do not apply.

* Even if we expose with an API it doesn't say 'accessible to whom
with what'? It is about evaluating the whole stack from the agency point of
view. The question is will it all work for the person with a disability when
delivered and set up.


QUESTIONS from discussion


1. Should 508 standard or its preamble make any statement about which
or how many AT?
2. Should a product fail FPC(s) and/or technical standard(s) if some
features don't work with some AT?

* what if most but not all features work -- bug in AT prevents the
rest?
* what if it worked fully and then AT changed (bug fix or new version)
and no longer works?
* what if it works with one AT and not another?

3. Should a product 'pass' 508 FPC(s) and/or technical standard(s) if
product would work with AT only if AT was customized?

* where info is not available at ALL (i.e., fails technical
standard(s)and/or FPC ) without customization?
* where customization is needed to work efficiently?


Table of Issues RE AT


Position 1


Don't need to work with actual AT to pass 508 even if access not built in
(i.e., not directly accessible).


* current 508 doesn't require AT only support.
* a company shouldn't be disadvantaged if AT vendors don't support the
company's product(s).
* problems with AT vendors who don't have bandwidth to make AT work
with vendors products at all.
* technical provisions don't put requirements on AT to work with IT -
so how do you guarantee that IT CAN work with (all) AT or AT that doesn't
use accessibility services properly.
* if the vendor can demonstrate via a tool that they expose
information then that should be sufficient even if AT not available that
uses the information.




Position 2


If access not built in - then must work with actual AT - but not all (and
need to address times when products work with one version or one day and not
the next).


* current 508 does require product to work with AT. 'or support for'
does mean 'works with actual AT'.
* if it doesn't work with actual AT then actual employees can't use
the product.
* not realistic to work with all AT.
* real problem for vendors when product works but then AT changes or
has bug and doesn't work completely any longer.
* technical provisions don't put requirements on AT to work with IT -
so how do you guarantee that IT CAN work with (all or any) AT or AT that
doesn't use accessibility services provided by product properly?




Position 3


If access not built in - then must work with all AT that users have or can
afford


* current 508 does require product to work with AT. 'or support for
AT' means 'works with actual AT'.
* if product doesn't work with employee's (or public's) AT then they
can't use the product.


Minutes at


http://teitac.org/wiki/Monday_10-15-2007_General_telecon


Gregg & Michael

Co-Chairs

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