Thread Subject: Re: Enable/disable Captions

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From: Sean Hayes
Date: Thu, Oct 25 2007 1:20 PM

So it appears we are not converging on the exact wording due for tomorrow.

maybe the best we can do at this point is to include both Karen's latest version and my summary of Wednesday as alternatives, to replace what is in the Oct26 draft, otherwise I fear we will miss the boat for the editors this time round.

Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft

Office: +44 118 909 5867,
Mobile: +44 7875 091385


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karen Peltz Strauss
Sent: 25 October 2007 19:49
To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-committee] Enable/disable Captions

Here are some responses to the comments on this issue today:

Products covered by 4-A.1:

I remain concerned about the "at least" language in 4-A.1. My concern is
not so much that the controls will be on the remote versus the TV apparatus.
It is more that I don't want this to be interpreted to mean that an
on-screen option could suffice if there are hard volume/channel controls on
the remote control or the apparatus. How about:

"For products that are covered under subpart 4-A.1, the user controls needed
to access closed captioning and video description must be in at least one
location that is comparable in prominence to the controls needed to control
volume and program selection. At a minimum, this requres placement of such
controls on either the product's physical apparatus or its remote control."

(followed by the examples we have agreed on)

Products covered by 4-A.2:

Actually 6C does not address the usability of the captioning controls. All
it says is

"At the time of playback, captions and/or video descriptions must be either
(a) capable of being turned on and off ("closed"), or (b) visible or audible
to all users ("open")."

One possible resolution for these products is that unlike the proposed
language for 4-A.1, which ties the prominence to volume control/program
selection, we can state that:

"For products that are covered under 4-A.2, the user controls needed to
access closed captioning and video description must be comparable in
prominence to the play controls or channel selector."

This should alleviate concerns about placing caption controls in the same
place as the volume control for devices such as cell phones, where the
primary purpose of the device is for communications, not video programming.
Typically, the above language would require users to enter the device's menu
to access the captions, but so long as the user can go to the same level
that is used for playing and selecting channels, that would be ok.

Karen



----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Fields" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-committee] Enable/disable Captions


> Thank you Karen,
>
> Your proposal seems to make sense in principle. I would defer to TV
> vendors for their feedback.
>
> Regarding controls in devices like those in 4A-2, I would concur with
> your comment -
>
> "... that we not impose inappropriate obligations on products that, in
> the past, were not traditionally used for television programming, such
> as cell phones ..."
>
> - and propose that we not create additional language to handle CC/DV
> controls for 4A-2. This requirement for enable/disable CC/DV
> functionality is already noted in 6C.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karen Peltz
> Strauss
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:47 AM
> To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-committee] Enable/disable Captions
>
> Given the turn in our discussion, I am going to propose some very simple
>
> language for the captioning and video description controls that apply to
>
> products under 4A.1:
>
> "For products that are covered under subpart 4-A.1, the user controls
> needed
> to access closed captioning and video description must be comparable in
> prominence to the controls needed to control volume and program
> selection."
> (followed by the examples we have agreed on)
>
> Rationale: Much of the debate that we had over the past few weeks was
> an
> attempt to ensure that we not impose inappropriate obligations on
> products
> that, in the past, were not traditionally used for television
> programming,
> such as cell phones, PDAs, and smaller or computer-type electronic
> devices.
> 4-A.1 ONLY applies to television receivers/tuners that are covered under
> the
> FCC's captioning rules. These devices routinely have remote controls,
> and
> always have a hardware place to control volume and program selection -
> on
> the remote control and sometimes on the television apparatus. Thus, we
> no
> longer need the phrase at the end that had begun with "where available."
> I
> have also removed the phrase "in at least one location" because for
> these
> types of devices, where there is typically a physical (hard) control,
> there
> needs to be a similarly hard control for these accessibility features.
> As I
> mentioned yesterday, I am concerned, like Gregg, that if there is a
> second
> place to control the volume and program selection on a menu, the "at
> least
> one location" language would allow placement of the captioning/vd
> controls
> to be buried there, and we are back where we started from. If, as Larry
>
> suggested yesterday, television type devices do not typically have this
> alternative - then the outcome is still the same.
>
> I am hoping this language for products under 4-A.1is acceptable to the
> group. I remain open to different language to cover the other types of
> devices. However, I do not recall that we agreed on not requiring
> prominence for these controls on those types of devices. Remember, the
> whole point of this is not just to have controls, but to place them in a
>
> location where users can find them.
>
> Karen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Hayes" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-committee] Enable/disable Captions
>
>
>> Here is my recollection of what we determined:
>>
>> We would use the definition in 4A.1 as the type of products for which
>> equal prominence was required.
>>
>> Products as defined in 4A.2 would also need some means of turning them
>
>> on/off, however as we have less understanding of emerging non TV form
>> factors, and with the assumption that obtaining video on such devices
>> already requires a relative degree of user sophistication, we would
> not
>> require equal prominence in those cases, so this is already covered by
> 6C.
>>
>> We also decided we would restrict the prominence requirement to just
>> captions and video description controls.
>>
>> We noted we do not currently have equal wording to 4A for video
>> descriptions. Larry proposed rewording 4B to mirror 4A, however I'm
> not
>> sure exactly what that would look like.
>>
>> We agreed to move the proposed language out of 4A into its own
> provision
>> and simply reference 4A.1 for its scope, however on reading it again
> it
>> seems rather than make a new provision it would be better to add it to
> 6C.
>>
>> Thus 6C would now read:
>>
>> 6C - Open or Closed Captions/Descriptions
>> At the time of playback, captions and/or video descriptions must be
> either
>> (a) capable of being turned on and off ("closed"), or (b) visible or
>> audible to all users ("open").
>>
>> For products as defined in 4A.1 the controls to turn on or off
> captions
>> and/or video descriptions must be comparable in prominence, in at
> least
>> one location, to controls provided to control volume, or perform
> program
>> selection, where the ability to control these features is otherwise
>> provided.
>>
>> -- personally I'm not sure the "where the ability..." part is strictly
>
>> necessary.
>>
>>
>> If this is consistent with everyone else's notes, I suggest we forward
> to
>> the EWG for inclusion this Friday.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sean Hayes
>> Incubation Lab
>> Accessibility Business Unit
>> Microsoft
>>
>> Office: +44 118 909 5867,
>> Mobile: +44 7875 091385
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Larry
> Goldberg
>> Sent: 25 October 2007 03:27
>> To: TEITAC AV list
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-committee] Enable/disable Captions
>>
>> Not sure of the deadlines, but I am on the road all day tomorrow and
> tied
>> up
>> much of Friday.
>>
>> If anyone else has good notes of our call and can post the latest,
> that
>> would be great.
>>
>> ... Larry ...
>>
>>

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