Thread Subject: Re: Definition of captions

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From: Larry Goldberg
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 2:35 PM

ok by me.

... Larry ...


On Feb 15, 2008, at 3:45 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:

How about:

Captions
Text providing an equivalent to audio information contained in
synchronized media, including speech and non-spoken information (e.g.
speaker identification, sound effects) necessary for comprehension of
the media.

(no notes)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:teitac-
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:41 PM
> To: 'TEITAC Committee'
> Cc: 'WCAG Editors'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions
>
> Hmm
> I think people wanted speaker ID in there. Any problem with that?
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
>> Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:11 PM
>> To: TEITAC Committee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions
>>
>> I think that equivalent is good here. We can't say
>> "verbatim" unless we are only talking about speech, and we're
>> including non-spoken information. How about:
>>
>> Captions:
>> Text providing information equivalent to the audio
>> information contained in synchronized media, including
>> speech, sounds, and non-spoken information necessary for
>> comprehension of the media.
>>
>> (no notes)
>>
>> AWK
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:teitac-
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Larry Goldberg
>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:20 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Committee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions
>>>
>>> This opens up the issue of verbatim and whose judgement it is to
>>> decide "facilitation of readability."
>>> I don't think we want to go there.
>>> Better to simply say, "text should be a verbatim reflection of the
>>> audio unless timing of the video does not allow it."
>>>
>>> ... Larry ...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 15, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that equivalent does not mean identical. We have textual
>>> equivalents to pictures and many other uses of the term that would
>>> seem to indicate it did not need to be identical.
>>>
>>> However, we could add a note or just cover this and make this
clear.
>>>
>>> Note: Captions are often not verbatim to facilitate the
readability
>>> within the time allowed by the material.
>>>
>>> That would make it
>>>
>>>
>>> <proposed>
>>>
>>> text that provides equivalents to the audio information in
>>> synchronized media and is displayed concurrently with the sound.
>>>
>>> Note: Audio information includes speech and other
>> information conveyed
>>> using sound such as meaningful sound effects and identification of
>>> speakers.
>>>
>>> Note: Captions are often not verbatim to facilitate the
readability
>>> within the time allowed by the material.
>>>
>>> </proposed>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gregg
>>> -- ------------------------------
>>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Sean
>>>> Hayes
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:58 AM
>>>> To: TEITAC Committee
>>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions
>>>>
>>>> In the UK/EU captions (or as we call them here to confuse the
>>>> unwary, subtitles) on mainstream TV are very rarely verbatim
>>>> transcripts of the speech, but are usually cleaned up and
>> edited for
>>>> reading speed. So provided equivalent doesn't mean
>> identical, I'd be
>>>> happy with the proposed change.
>>>>
>>>> Sean Hayes
>>>> Incubation Lab
>>>> Accessibility Business Unit
>>>> Microsoft
>>>>
>>>> Office: +44 118 909 5867,
>>>> Mobile: +44 7875 091385
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Larry
>>>> Goldberg
>>>> Sent: 15 February 2008 16:28
>>>> To: TEITAC Committee
>>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions
>>>>
>>>> I would guess that by now everyone knows that caption text is
>>>> supposed to exactly match audio and not be some loose
>> summary, so I
>>>> wouldn't argue vociferously against the proposed harmonization
>>>> wording. I would just suggest that the use of the phrase
>>>> "equivalents to the audio information"
>>>> might lead a novice to some odd textual display. Perhaps
>> change that
>>>> to:
>>>>
>>>> <newly proposed>
>>>> text that MATCHES OR REFLECTS audio information in synchronized
>>>> media and is displayed concurrently with the sound.
>>>>
>>>> Note: Audio information includes speech and other information
>>>> conveyed using sound such as meaningful sound effects and
>>>> identification of speakers.
>>>> </newly proposed>
>>>>
>>>> But as I said, in the interest of harmonization, the WCAG
>> verbiage
>>>> should work.
>>>>
>>>> ... Larry ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 15, 2008, at 11:13 AM, Andi Snow-Weaver wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In WCAG, we have received a comment that the wording in the
>>>> definition of "caption text" is very awkward; specifically the
>>>> wording "...
>>>> synchronized
>>>> with synchronized media...."
>>>>
>>>> In our meeting yesterday, we settled on less awkward wording.
>>>> In the spirit of harmonization, we would like to propose
>> that TEITAC
>>>> adopt similar wording.
>>>>
>>>> <current>
>>>> Text presented and synchronized with synchronized media
>> to provide
>>>> not only the speech, but also non-speech information conveyed
>>>> through sound, including meaningful sound effects and
>> identification
>>>> of speakers.
>>>> </current>
>>>>
>>>> <proposed>
>>>> text that provides equivalents to the audio information in
>>>> synchronized media and is displayed concurrently with the sound.
>>>>
>>>> Note: Audio information includes speech and other information
>>>> conveyed using sound such as meaningful sound effects and
>>>> identification of speakers.
>>>> </proposed>
>>>>
>>>> Andi
>>>>
>>>>

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