Thread Subject: Re: Definition of captions

Note

This archival content is maintained by WebAIM and NCDAE on behalf of TEITAC and the U.S. Access Board . Additional details on the updates to section 508 and section 255 can be found at the Access Board web site.

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Wed, Feb 20 2008 1:25 PM

Sorry,



I was a day off. I was talking about out WCAG meeting tomorrow at 4pm
Eastern. (getting old)




Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:39 PM
To: TEITAC Committee
Cc: Rosaline Crawford
Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions

What meeting?



Change:

NOTE: Captions can be supplemental visual or text equivalents that can be
turned on and off (closed captions) or images of text embedded in video
(open captions).



To:

NOTE: Captions can be supplemental visual or text equivalents or images of
text embedded in video.



I can put text captions on a movie and not allow them to be turned off.



AWK



From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:31 PM
To: 'TEITAC Committee'
Cc: 'Rosaline Crawford'
Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions



Dialog and dialogue are both the same word.



In note two we aren't defining closed captions really - just pointing out
what type of caption that is. If you have alternate wording that still
talks about embedding them in the video (important to make it clear that
that meets definition) please propose. Asap.



Should not - is SHOULD - therefore is just advice. Good advice - which
is why it is there. But it is not a bar to the text still being a
caption.







Please suggest any edits you would like considered ASAP. The meeting is in
90 minutes. Would be good to have them before then if possible.



Thanks




Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:11 PM
To: TEITAC Committee
Cc: Rosaline Crawford
Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions

1) Note 1: Is it dialog or dialogue?

2) Note 2: The open or closed nature of captions is related to being
able to turn them on or off, not if they are images of text in video. Don't
we lay out what open and closed means in the standard for captioning?

3) Note 3: I agree that this is true, but if we are saying "should not"
then we are saying that even if the captions do obstruct the relevant info
they are still captions. This makes me wonder if this is needed in the
definition.



Other than these, I'm in agreement.

AWK



From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:56 PM
To: 'TEITAC Committee'
Cc: 'Rosaline Crawford'
Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions



I think this works well.



I would remove the errant word "AND" in note 2 as Larry suggested
earlier. That would give us:



Does anyone see another edit to this text? If not I will run it past WCAG
in our meeting this afternoon.



Gregg






Captions


Synchronized visual or text equivalents for audio information including both
dialog and non-dialog audio information.

NOTE: Captions are similar to dialog-only subtitles except captions convey
not only the content of spoken dialog, but also equivalents for other
(non-spoken) audio information needed to understand the program content,
including sound effects, music, laughter, speaker identification and
location.

NOTE: Captions can be supplemental visual or text equivalents that can be
turned on and off (closed captions) or images of text embedded in video
(open captions).

NOTE: Captions should not obscure or obstruct relevant or key information.

NOTE: In some countries captions are called subtitles.










Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Hayes
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:14 AM
To: TEITAC Committee
Cc: Rosaline Crawford
Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions

Works for me.



Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft



Office: +44 118 909 5867,

Mobile: +44 7875 091385



From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Larry
Goldberg
Sent: 20 February 2008 13:36
To: TEITAC Committee
Cc: Rosaline Crawford
Subject: Re: [teitac-committee] Definition of captions



I think the "needed to understand" language is good.



... Larry ...





On Feb 20, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Karen Peltz Strauss wrote:



Please delete the word "important." The consumer community is going to be
justifiably upset with a definition that says that only non-dialog that is
"important" should be captioned. It is not clear who would decide what was
important and how that decision would be made. If it can be heard by
hearing people, there should be a corresponding caption for the sound.
Saying that only "important" sounds should be captioned is a dangerous area
to get into. Use of the words "needed to understand" would be an
improvement. I would revise as follows:




Captions


Synchronized visual or text equivalents for audio information including both
dialog and non-dialog audio information.

NOTE: Captions are similar to dialog-only subtitles except captions convey
not only the content of spoken dialog, but also equivalents for other
(non-spoken) audio information needed to understand the program content,
including sound effects, music, laughter, speaker identification and
location.

NOTE: Captions can be supplemental visual or text equivalents that can be
turned on and off (closed captions) or images of text and embedded in video
(open captions).

NOTE: Captions should not obscure or obstruct relevant or key information.

NOTE: In some countries captions are called subtitles.





Karen

WebAIM is an initiative of:
Center for Persons with Disabilities (CPD) Utah State University