Thread Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

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From: David Poehlman
Date: Mon, Jun 25 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

These environments are not accessible and should not be used by any federal
agency or others bound by 508.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walser, Kate" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >;
"TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [teitac-general] [teitac-video][teitac-websoftware]Accessibility
ofSecond Life and related applications


All,



The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, National Institutes of
Health, National Library of Medicine, Library of Congress, National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and about 10 others government agencies
now use Second Life (http://www.lindenlabs.com
<http://www.lindenlabs.com/> )

for various functions including training simulations and public
outreach. Second Life is a sort of immersive environment in which you
move your avatar around and communicate with other avatars. You can buy
and sell services and goods, attend presentations, sit in forums, etc.
A group - Real Life Government in Second Life - has even sprung up to
enable these agencies to discuss and share ideas about using Second
Life. Use of Second Life and other immersive experiences may expand in
coming years for education and training, collaboration, and information
retrieval. The Real Life Government in Second Life group has raised
questions about Section 508 from what I understand.



In talking with some folks across the subcommittees, it doesn't sound
like any of us have discussed the accessibility of these immersive
environments or networked virtual environments. (There are others
besides Second Life) Not an easy beast to tackle, let alone in time for
June/July deadlines, but an area we should at least discuss and explore.



I can set up a discussion with some of our SRA folks who work with the
Real Life Government in Second Life group (and potentially with some of
that group's members) but have hesitated as any demonstrations of the
Second Life environment would not be accessible.



Is there interest in exploring this through at least a discussion with
folks who have been working with the agencies and have insight into how
they're using Second Life? And if so, please think about which
subcommittee we should have take the ball on this one - general, video,
web-software?



Cheers,

Kate





Kate Walser

Director, Usability Center of Excellence

SRA International, Inc.

4300 Fair Lakes Court

Fairfax, VA 22033

(703) 502-1170






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Smith, Jamie
Date: Wed, Aug 01 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

Folks from Florida Blind Services looked at the site Second life:

In a nutshell, Second Life locks out persons who are blind.

2 users, JAWS, high level of knowledge, unable to get in the door
1 user, low vision technology provided by operating system, unable to
get in the door

This system is not meeting even minimum standards.

The task was simple please login in to Second Life, so we can take a
look at the community.

For speech users there are no navigation tools at all. (no list menus,
no header levels) Moreover, the links, and graphics - when labeled -
are problematic. There was the typical "click here" and "read more",
but there were also links that had no meaning whatsoever. Graphics
often that were labeled said stuff like "spacer gif" or had no meaning
whatsoever. But these two highly technical speech users were not going
to let this stop them. There were four links that said something to the
effect "join secondlife for free". The links did not all go to the join
page. One user got stuck on a page. (target blank used to open windows
some of the time, some of the time it wasn't.) Basically, one very
high end speech user was not able to get to join. - gave up at this
point. Second, user was provided sighted assistance to get to the
correct login page. The form itself had no "label for" or text for
speech to read most of the time. The user, being a highly motivated and
high end speech users got in and out of edit mode. The drop down list
(reads as combo box) only allowed user to select a "fictions last name".
After playing for a while user figured out that the name was not
supposed to be "real". When the person selected a fact last name, the
combination of the fictitious last name and the real name was already
taken. A window opened up, focus went to that window. The user had not
realized a new window opened. User required sighted assistance to
explain what happened and to select a name not taken and to continue
login in processes. The person moved forward slowly, until, low and
behold there was a graphic with code on it used for verification. There
was a nice "Click Here" if you can't read the graphic link. When you
clicked here, a new graphic displayed.

None of our staff were able to get in the door.

I actually watched the users attempt the log in process. I ended up
logging in to see what the community was about. I am very shocked that
any government entity would even consider being part of this community.
The clear 508 violations, the disenfranchising of persons who are can't
afford broadband or latest technology, are just the tip of the ice berg.
THIS IS AN ADULT COMMUNITY. 18 and over only. I know on our site we
have students that often use it, and I know a few of the government
entities that are listed as using it and often used by teachers for
research. So will government entities now have one site for adults and
one site for "teens"? Do government sites what to share communities
that are very close to being pornographic (avatars for one of the
woman's pages - note I thought the world was going to be for women...
Maya, )?

Who can we write about our concerns as they relate to equal access?

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:44 AM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee; TEITAC
Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

These environments are not accessible and should not be used by any
federal agency or others bound by 508.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walser, Kate" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >;
"TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [teitac-general]
[teitac-video][teitac-websoftware]Accessibility
ofSecond Life and related applications


All,



The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, National Institutes of
Health, National Library of Medicine, Library of Congress, National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and about 10 others government agencies
now use Second Life (http://www.lindenlabs.com
<http://www.lindenlabs.com/> )

for various functions including training simulations and public
outreach. Second Life is a sort of immersive environment in which you
move your avatar around and communicate with other avatars. You can buy
and sell services and goods, attend presentations, sit in forums, etc.
A group - Real Life Government in Second Life - has even sprung up to
enable these agencies to discuss and share ideas about using Second
Life. Use of Second Life and other immersive experiences may expand in
coming years for education and training, collaboration, and information
retrieval. The Real Life Government in Second Life group has raised
questions about Section 508 from what I understand.



In talking with some folks across the subcommittees, it doesn't sound
like any of us have discussed the accessibility of these immersive
environments or networked virtual environments. (There are others
besides Second Life) Not an easy beast to tackle, let alone in time for
June/July deadlines, but an area we should at least discuss and explore.



I can set up a discussion with some of our SRA folks who work with the
Real Life Government in Second Life group (and potentially with some of
that group's members) but have hesitated as any demonstrations of the
Second Life environment would not be accessible.



Is there interest in exploring this through at least a discussion with
folks who have been working with the agencies and have insight into how
they're using Second Life? And if so, please think about which
subcommittee we should have take the ball on this one - general, video,
web-software?



Cheers,

Kate





Kate Walser

Director, Usability Center of Excellence

SRA International, Inc.

4300 Fair Lakes Court

Fairfax, VA 22033

(703) 502-1170






------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

From: Andi Snow-Weaver
Date: Wed, Aug 01 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

Jamie,

We know it's not accessible at all to blind users and there are
accessibility issues for other types of disabilities too.

The purpose of suggesting that subcommittee members look at it prior to the
presentation on August 8th is so that you have an idea of what Second Life
is. Since we're not doing a live demo, it will make the presentation and
discussion more meaningful and substantive if people know what it is that
we're discussing.

Andi




"Smith, Jamie"
<Jamie.Smith@dbs.
fldoe.org> To
Sent by: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
teitac-websoftwar < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >, "TEITAC General Interface
itac.org Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
cc
08/01/2007 08:28
AM Subject
Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Acces
Please respond to sibility ofSecond Life and
TEITAC related applications
Web/Software
Subcommittee
<teitac-websoftwa
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
g>






Folks from Florida Blind Services looked at the site Second life:

In a nutshell, Second Life locks out persons who are blind.

2 users, JAWS, high level of knowledge, unable to get in the door
1 user, low vision technology provided by operating system, unable to
get in the door

This system is not meeting even minimum standards.

The task was simple please login in to Second Life, so we can take a
look at the community.

For speech users there are no navigation tools at all. (no list menus,
no header levels) Moreover, the links, and graphics - when labeled -
are problematic. There was the typical "click here" and "read more",
but there were also links that had no meaning whatsoever. Graphics
often that were labeled said stuff like "spacer gif" or had no meaning
whatsoever. But these two highly technical speech users were not going
to let this stop them. There were four links that said something to the
effect "join secondlife for free". The links did not all go to the join
page. One user got stuck on a page. (target blank used to open windows
some of the time, some of the time it wasn't.) Basically, one very
high end speech user was not able to get to join. - gave up at this
point. Second, user was provided sighted assistance to get to the
correct login page. The form itself had no "label for" or text for
speech to read most of the time. The user, being a highly motivated and
high end speech users got in and out of edit mode. The drop down list
(reads as combo box) only allowed user to select a "fictions last name".
After playing for a while user figured out that the name was not
supposed to be "real". When the person selected a fact last name, the
combination of the fictitious last name and the real name was already
taken. A window opened up, focus went to that window. The user had not
realized a new window opened. User required sighted assistance to
explain what happened and to select a name not taken and to continue
login in processes. The person moved forward slowly, until, low and
behold there was a graphic with code on it used for verification. There
was a nice "Click Here" if you can't read the graphic link. When you
clicked here, a new graphic displayed.

None of our staff were able to get in the door.

I actually watched the users attempt the log in process. I ended up
logging in to see what the community was about. I am very shocked that
any government entity would even consider being part of this community.
The clear 508 violations, the disenfranchising of persons who are can't
afford broadband or latest technology, are just the tip of the ice berg.
THIS IS AN ADULT COMMUNITY. 18 and over only. I know on our site we
have students that often use it, and I know a few of the government
entities that are listed as using it and often used by teachers for
research. So will government entities now have one site for adults and
one site for "teens"? Do government sites what to share communities
that are very close to being pornographic (avatars for one of the
woman's pages - note I thought the world was going to be for women...
Maya, )?

Who can we write about our concerns as they relate to equal access?

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:44 AM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee; TEITAC
Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

These environments are not accessible and should not be used by any
federal agency or others bound by 508.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walser, Kate" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >;
"TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [teitac-general]
[teitac-video][teitac-websoftware]Accessibility
ofSecond Life and related applications


All,



The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, National Institutes of
Health, National Library of Medicine, Library of Congress, National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and about 10 others government agencies
now use Second Life (?http://www.lindenlabs.com
<http://www.lindenlabs.com/> )

for various functions including training simulations and public
outreach. Second Life is a sort of immersive environment in which you
move your avatar around and communicate with other avatars. You can buy
and sell services and goods, attend presentations, sit in forums, etc.
A group - Real Life Government in Second Life - has even sprung up to
enable these agencies to discuss and share ideas about using Second
Life. Use of Second Life and other immersive experiences may expand in
coming years for education and training, collaboration, and information
retrieval. The Real Life Government in Second Life group has raised
questions about Section 508 from what I understand.



In talking with some folks across the subcommittees, it doesn't sound
like any of us have discussed the accessibility of these immersive
environments or networked virtual environments. (There are others
besides Second Life) Not an easy beast to tackle, let alone in time for
June/July deadlines, but an area we should at least discuss and explore.



I can set up a discussion with some of our SRA folks who work with the
Real Life Government in Second Life group (and potentially with some of
that group's members) but have hesitated as any demonstrations of the
Second Life environment would not be accessible.



Is there interest in exploring this through at least a discussion with
folks who have been working with the agencies and have insight into how
they're using Second Life? And if so, please think about which
subcommittee we should have take the ball on this one - general, video,
web-software?



Cheers,

Kate





Kate Walser

Director, Usability Center of Excellence

SRA International, Inc.

4300 Fair Lakes Court

Fairfax, VA 22033

(703) 502-1170






------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

From: Andi Snow-Weaver
Date: Wed, Aug 01 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

Jamie,

We know it's not accessible at all to blind users and there are
accessibility issues for other types of disabilities too.

The purpose of suggesting that subcommittee members look at it prior to the
presentation on August 8th is so that you have an idea of what Second Life
is. Since we're not doing a live demo, it will make the presentation and
discussion more meaningful and substantive if people know what it is that
we're discussing.

Andi




"Smith, Jamie"
<Jamie.Smith@dbs.
fldoe.org> To
Sent by: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
teitac-websoftwar < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >, "TEITAC General Interface
itac.org Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
cc
08/01/2007 08:28
AM Subject
Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Acces
Please respond to sibility ofSecond Life and
TEITAC related applications
Web/Software
Subcommittee
<teitac-websoftwa
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
g>






Folks from Florida Blind Services looked at the site Second life:

In a nutshell, Second Life locks out persons who are blind.

2 users, JAWS, high level of knowledge, unable to get in the door
1 user, low vision technology provided by operating system, unable to
get in the door

This system is not meeting even minimum standards.

The task was simple please login in to Second Life, so we can take a
look at the community.

For speech users there are no navigation tools at all. (no list menus,
no header levels) Moreover, the links, and graphics - when labeled -
are problematic. There was the typical "click here" and "read more",
but there were also links that had no meaning whatsoever. Graphics
often that were labeled said stuff like "spacer gif" or had no meaning
whatsoever. But these two highly technical speech users were not going
to let this stop them. There were four links that said something to the
effect "join secondlife for free". The links did not all go to the join
page. One user got stuck on a page. (target blank used to open windows
some of the time, some of the time it wasn't.) Basically, one very
high end speech user was not able to get to join. - gave up at this
point. Second, user was provided sighted assistance to get to the
correct login page. The form itself had no "label for" or text for
speech to read most of the time. The user, being a highly motivated and
high end speech users got in and out of edit mode. The drop down list
(reads as combo box) only allowed user to select a "fictions last name".
After playing for a while user figured out that the name was not
supposed to be "real". When the person selected a fact last name, the
combination of the fictitious last name and the real name was already
taken. A window opened up, focus went to that window. The user had not
realized a new window opened. User required sighted assistance to
explain what happened and to select a name not taken and to continue
login in processes. The person moved forward slowly, until, low and
behold there was a graphic with code on it used for verification. There
was a nice "Click Here" if you can't read the graphic link. When you
clicked here, a new graphic displayed.

None of our staff were able to get in the door.

I actually watched the users attempt the log in process. I ended up
logging in to see what the community was about. I am very shocked that
any government entity would even consider being part of this community.
The clear 508 violations, the disenfranchising of persons who are can't
afford broadband or latest technology, are just the tip of the ice berg.
THIS IS AN ADULT COMMUNITY. 18 and over only. I know on our site we
have students that often use it, and I know a few of the government
entities that are listed as using it and often used by teachers for
research. So will government entities now have one site for adults and
one site for "teens"? Do government sites what to share communities
that are very close to being pornographic (avatars for one of the
woman's pages - note I thought the world was going to be for women...
Maya, )?

Who can we write about our concerns as they relate to equal access?

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:44 AM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee; TEITAC
Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

These environments are not accessible and should not be used by any
federal agency or others bound by 508.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walser, Kate" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >;
"TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [teitac-general]
[teitac-video][teitac-websoftware]Accessibility
ofSecond Life and related applications


All,



The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, National Institutes of
Health, National Library of Medicine, Library of Congress, National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and about 10 others government agencies
now use Second Life (?http://www.lindenlabs.com
<http://www.lindenlabs.com/> )

for various functions including training simulations and public
outreach. Second Life is a sort of immersive environment in which you
move your avatar around and communicate with other avatars. You can buy
and sell services and goods, attend presentations, sit in forums, etc.
A group - Real Life Government in Second Life - has even sprung up to
enable these agencies to discuss and share ideas about using Second
Life. Use of Second Life and other immersive experiences may expand in
coming years for education and training, collaboration, and information
retrieval. The Real Life Government in Second Life group has raised
questions about Section 508 from what I understand.



In talking with some folks across the subcommittees, it doesn't sound
like any of us have discussed the accessibility of these immersive
environments or networked virtual environments. (There are others
besides Second Life) Not an easy beast to tackle, let alone in time for
June/July deadlines, but an area we should at least discuss and explore.



I can set up a discussion with some of our SRA folks who work with the
Real Life Government in Second Life group (and potentially with some of
that group's members) but have hesitated as any demonstrations of the
Second Life environment would not be accessible.



Is there interest in exploring this through at least a discussion with
folks who have been working with the agencies and have insight into how
they're using Second Life? And if so, please think about which
subcommittee we should have take the ball on this one - general, video,
web-software?



Cheers,

Kate





Kate Walser

Director, Usability Center of Excellence

SRA International, Inc.

4300 Fair Lakes Court

Fairfax, VA 22033

(703) 502-1170






------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

From: Smith, Jamie
Date: Wed, Aug 01 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

I thought you wanted some users to see it. :0

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andi
Snow-Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:25 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Cc: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

Jamie,

We know it's not accessible at all to blind users and there are
accessibility issues for other types of disabilities too.

The purpose of suggesting that subcommittee members look at it prior to
the presentation on August 8th is so that you have an idea of what
Second Life is. Since we're not doing a live demo, it will make the
presentation and discussion more meaningful and substantive if people
know what it is that we're discussing.

Andi





"Smith, Jamie"

<Jamie.Smith@dbs.

fldoe.org>
To
Sent by: "TEITAC Web/Software
Subcommittee"
teitac-websoftwar
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >, "TEITAC General Interface

itac.org Accessibility Subcommittee"

< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >


cc
08/01/2007 08:28

AM
Subject
Re: [teitac-websoftware]


[teitac-general][teitac-video]Acces
Please respond to sibility ofSecond Life and

TEITAC related applications

Web/Software

Subcommittee

<teitac-websoftwa

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

g>









Folks from Florida Blind Services looked at the site Second life:

In a nutshell, Second Life locks out persons who are blind.

2 users, JAWS, high level of knowledge, unable to get in the door
1 user, low vision technology provided by operating system, unable to
get in the door

This system is not meeting even minimum standards.

The task was simple please login in to Second Life, so we can take a
look at the community.

For speech users there are no navigation tools at all. (no list menus,
no header levels) Moreover, the links, and graphics - when labeled -
are problematic. There was the typical "click here" and "read more",
but there were also links that had no meaning whatsoever. Graphics
often that were labeled said stuff like "spacer gif" or had no meaning
whatsoever. But these two highly technical speech users were not going
to let this stop them. There were four links that said something to the
effect "join secondlife for free". The links did not all go to the join
page. One user got stuck on a page. (target blank used to open windows
some of the time, some of the time it wasn't.) Basically, one very
high end speech user was not able to get to join. - gave up at this
point. Second, user was provided sighted assistance to get to the
correct login page. The form itself had no "label for" or text for
speech to read most of the time. The user, being a highly motivated and
high end speech users got in and out of edit mode. The drop down list
(reads as combo box) only allowed user to select a "fictions last name".
After playing for a while user figured out that the name was not
supposed to be "real". When the person selected a fact last name, the
combination of the fictitious last name and the real name was already
taken. A window opened up, focus went to that window. The user had not
realized a new window opened. User required sighted assistance to
explain what happened and to select a name not taken and to continue
login in processes. The person moved forward slowly, until, low and
behold there was a graphic with code on it used for verification. There
was a nice "Click Here" if you can't read the graphic link. When you
clicked here, a new graphic displayed.

None of our staff were able to get in the door.

I actually watched the users attempt the log in process. I ended up
logging in to see what the community was about. I am very shocked that
any government entity would even consider being part of this community.
The clear 508 violations, the disenfranchising of persons who are can't
afford broadband or latest technology, are just the tip of the ice berg.
THIS IS AN ADULT COMMUNITY. 18 and over only. I know on our site we
have students that often use it, and I know a few of the government
entities that are listed as using it and often used by teachers for
research. So will government entities now have one site for adults and
one site for "teens"? Do government sites what to share communities
that are very close to being pornographic (avatars for one of the
woman's pages - note I thought the world was going to be for women...
Maya, )?

Who can we write about our concerns as they relate to equal access?

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:44 AM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee; TEITAC
Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

These environments are not accessible and should not be used by any
federal agency or others bound by 508.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walser, Kate" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >;
"TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [teitac-general]
[teitac-video][teitac-websoftware]Accessibility
ofSecond Life and related applications


All,



The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, National Institutes of
Health, National Library of Medicine, Library of Congress, National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and about 10 others government agencies
now use Second Life (?http://www.lindenlabs.com
<http://www.lindenlabs.com/> )

for various functions including training simulations and public
outreach. Second Life is a sort of immersive environment in which you
move your avatar around and communicate with other avatars. You can buy
and sell services and goods, attend presentations, sit in forums, etc.
A group - Real Life Government in Second Life - has even sprung up to
enable these agencies to discuss and share ideas about using Second
Life. Use of Second Life and other immersive experiences may expand in
coming years for education and training, collaboration, and information
retrieval. The Real Life Government in Second Life group has raised
questions about Section 508 from what I understand.



In talking with some folks across the subcommittees, it doesn't sound
like any of us have discussed the accessibility of these immersive
environments or networked virtual environments. (There are others
besides Second Life) Not an easy beast to tackle, let alone in time for
June/July deadlines, but an area we should at least discuss and explore.



I can set up a discussion with some of our SRA folks who work with the
Real Life Government in Second Life group (and potentially with some of
that group's members) but have hesitated as any demonstrations of the
Second Life environment would not be accessible.



Is there interest in exploring this through at least a discussion with
folks who have been working with the agencies and have insight into how
they're using Second Life? And if so, please think about which
subcommittee we should have take the ball on this one - general, video,
web-software?



Cheers,

Kate





Kate Walser

Director, Usability Center of Excellence

SRA International, Inc.

4300 Fair Lakes Court

Fairfax, VA 22033

(703) 502-1170






------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

From: Smith, Jamie
Date: Wed, Aug 01 2007 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

Did you want it worded like:

a Provide alternative text for all images. - failed
n Explicitly associate form controls and their labels with the LABEL
element. - failed

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andi
Snow-Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:25 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Cc: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

Jamie,

We know it's not accessible at all to blind users and there are
accessibility issues for other types of disabilities too.

The purpose of suggesting that subcommittee members look at it prior to
the presentation on August 8th is so that you have an idea of what
Second Life is. Since we're not doing a live demo, it will make the
presentation and discussion more meaningful and substantive if people
know what it is that we're discussing.

Andi





"Smith, Jamie"

<Jamie.Smith@dbs.

fldoe.org>
To
Sent by: "TEITAC Web/Software
Subcommittee"
teitac-websoftwar
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >, "TEITAC General Interface

itac.org Accessibility Subcommittee"

< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >


cc
08/01/2007 08:28

AM
Subject
Re: [teitac-websoftware]


[teitac-general][teitac-video]Acces
Please respond to sibility ofSecond Life and

TEITAC related applications

Web/Software

Subcommittee

<teitac-websoftwa

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

g>









Folks from Florida Blind Services looked at the site Second life:

In a nutshell, Second Life locks out persons who are blind.

2 users, JAWS, high level of knowledge, unable to get in the door
1 user, low vision technology provided by operating system, unable to
get in the door

This system is not meeting even minimum standards.

The task was simple please login in to Second Life, so we can take a
look at the community.

For speech users there are no navigation tools at all. (no list menus,
no header levels) Moreover, the links, and graphics - when labeled -
are problematic. There was the typical "click here" and "read more",
but there were also links that had no meaning whatsoever. Graphics
often that were labeled said stuff like "spacer gif" or had no meaning
whatsoever. But these two highly technical speech users were not going
to let this stop them. There were four links that said something to the
effect "join secondlife for free". The links did not all go to the join
page. One user got stuck on a page. (target blank used to open windows
some of the time, some of the time it wasn't.) Basically, one very
high end speech user was not able to get to join. - gave up at this
point. Second, user was provided sighted assistance to get to the
correct login page. The form itself had no "label for" or text for
speech to read most of the time. The user, being a highly motivated and
high end speech users got in and out of edit mode. The drop down list
(reads as combo box) only allowed user to select a "fictions last name".
After playing for a while user figured out that the name was not
supposed to be "real". When the person selected a fact last name, the
combination of the fictitious last name and the real name was already
taken. A window opened up, focus went to that window. The user had not
realized a new window opened. User required sighted assistance to
explain what happened and to select a name not taken and to continue
login in processes. The person moved forward slowly, until, low and
behold there was a graphic with code on it used for verification. There
was a nice "Click Here" if you can't read the graphic link. When you
clicked here, a new graphic displayed.

None of our staff were able to get in the door.

I actually watched the users attempt the log in process. I ended up
logging in to see what the community was about. I am very shocked that
any government entity would even consider being part of this community.
The clear 508 violations, the disenfranchising of persons who are can't
afford broadband or latest technology, are just the tip of the ice berg.
THIS IS AN ADULT COMMUNITY. 18 and over only. I know on our site we
have students that often use it, and I know a few of the government
entities that are listed as using it and often used by teachers for
research. So will government entities now have one site for adults and
one site for "teens"? Do government sites what to share communities
that are very close to being pornographic (avatars for one of the
woman's pages - note I thought the world was going to be for women...
Maya, )?

Who can we write about our concerns as they relate to equal access?

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:44 AM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee; TEITAC
Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

These environments are not accessible and should not be used by any
federal agency or others bound by 508.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walser, Kate" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >;
"TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [teitac-general]
[teitac-video][teitac-websoftware]Accessibility
ofSecond Life and related applications


All,



The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, National Institutes of
Health, National Library of Medicine, Library of Congress, National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and about 10 others government agencies
now use Second Life (?http://www.lindenlabs.com
<http://www.lindenlabs.com/> )

for various functions including training simulations and public
outreach. Second Life is a sort of immersive environment in which you
move your avatar around and communicate with other avatars. You can buy
and sell services and goods, attend presentations, sit in forums, etc.
A group - Real Life Government in Second Life - has even sprung up to
enable these agencies to discuss and share ideas about using Second
Life. Use of Second Life and other immersive experiences may expand in
coming years for education and training, collaboration, and information
retrieval. The Real Life Government in Second Life group has raised
questions about Section 508 from what I understand.



In talking with some folks across the subcommittees, it doesn't sound
like any of us have discussed the accessibility of these immersive
environments or networked virtual environments. (There are others
besides Second Life) Not an easy beast to tackle, let alone in time for
June/July deadlines, but an area we should at least discuss and explore.



I can set up a discussion with some of our SRA folks who work with the
Real Life Government in Second Life group (and potentially with some of
that group's members) but have hesitated as any demonstrations of the
Second Life environment would not be accessible.



Is there interest in exploring this through at least a discussion with
folks who have been working with the agencies and have insight into how
they're using Second Life? And if so, please think about which
subcommittee we should have take the ball on this one - general, video,
web-software?



Cheers,

Kate





Kate Walser

Director, Usability Center of Excellence

SRA International, Inc.

4300 Fair Lakes Court

Fairfax, VA 22033

(703) 502-1170






------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

From: Andi Snow-Weaver
Date: Wed, Aug 01 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

Jaimie,

We don't need an evaluation. As long as you have looked at it and
understand the concept of Second Life, you will get more out of next week's
presentation.

Andi




"Smith, Jamie"
<Jamie.Smith@dbs.
fldoe.org> To
Sent by: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
teitac-websoftwar < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
itac.org cc

Subject
08/01/2007 01:03 Re: [teitac-websoftware]
PM [teitac-general][teitac-video]Acces
sibility ofSecond Life and
related applications
Please respond to
TEITAC
Web/Software
Subcommittee
<teitac-websoftwa
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
g>






Did you want it worded like:

a Provide alternative text for all images. - failed
n Explicitly associate form controls and their labels with the LABEL
element. - failed

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andi
Snow-Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:25 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Cc: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

Jamie,

We know it's not accessible at all to blind users and there are
accessibility issues for other types of disabilities too.

The purpose of suggesting that subcommittee members look at it prior to
the presentation on August 8th is so that you have an idea of what
Second Life is. Since we're not doing a live demo, it will make the
presentation and discussion more meaningful and substantive if people
know what it is that we're discussing.

Andi





"Smith, Jamie"

<Jamie.Smith@dbs.

fldoe.org>
To
Sent by: "TEITAC Web/Software
Subcommittee"
teitac-websoftwar
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >, "TEITAC General Interface

itac.org Accessibility Subcommittee"

< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >


cc
08/01/2007 08:28

AM
Subject
Re: [teitac-websoftware]


[teitac-general][teitac-video]Acces
Please respond to sibility ofSecond Life and

TEITAC related applications

Web/Software

Subcommittee

<teitac-websoftwa

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

g>









Folks from Florida Blind Services looked at the site Second life:

In a nutshell, Second Life locks out persons who are blind.

2 users, JAWS, high level of knowledge, unable to get in the door
1 user, low vision technology provided by operating system, unable to
get in the door

This system is not meeting even minimum standards.

The task was simple please login in to Second Life, so we can take a
look at the community.

For speech users there are no navigation tools at all. (no list menus,
no header levels) Moreover, the links, and graphics - when labeled -
are problematic. There was the typical "click here" and "read more",
but there were also links that had no meaning whatsoever. Graphics
often that were labeled said stuff like "spacer gif" or had no meaning
whatsoever. But these two highly technical speech users were not going
to let this stop them. There were four links that said something to the
effect "join secondlife for free". The links did not all go to the join
page. One user got stuck on a page. (target blank used to open windows
some of the time, some of the time it wasn't.) Basically, one very
high end speech user was not able to get to join. - gave up at this
point. Second, user was provided sighted assistance to get to the
correct login page. The form itself had no "label for" or text for
speech to read most of the time. The user, being a highly motivated and
high end speech users got in and out of edit mode. The drop down list
(reads as combo box) only allowed user to select a "fictions last name".
After playing for a while user figured out that the name was not
supposed to be "real". When the person selected a fact last name, the
combination of the fictitious last name and the real name was already
taken. A window opened up, focus went to that window. The user had not
realized a new window opened. User required sighted assistance to
explain what happened and to select a name not taken and to continue
login in processes. The person moved forward slowly, until, low and
behold there was a graphic with code on it used for verification. There
was a nice "Click Here" if you can't read the graphic link. When you
clicked here, a new graphic displayed.

None of our staff were able to get in the door.

I actually watched the users attempt the log in process. I ended up
logging in to see what the community was about. I am very shocked that
any government entity would even consider being part of this community.
The clear 508 violations, the disenfranchising of persons who are can't
afford broadband or latest technology, are just the tip of the ice berg.
THIS IS AN ADULT COMMUNITY. 18 and over only. I know on our site we
have students that often use it, and I know a few of the government
entities that are listed as using it and often used by teachers for
research. So will government entities now have one site for adults and
one site for "teens"? Do government sites what to share communities
that are very close to being pornographic (avatars for one of the
woman's pages - note I thought the world was going to be for women...
Maya, )?

Who can we write about our concerns as they relate to equal access?

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:44 AM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee; TEITAC
Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware]
[teitac-general][teitac-video]Accessibility ofSecond Life and related
applications

These environments are not accessible and should not be used by any
federal agency or others bound by 508.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walser, Kate" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >;
"TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: [teitac-general]
[teitac-video][teitac-websoftware]Accessibility
ofSecond Life and related applications


All,



The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, National Institutes of
Health, National Library of Medicine, Library of Congress, National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and about 10 others government agencies
now use Second Life (?http://www.lindenlabs.com
<http://www.lindenlabs.com/> )

for various functions including training simulations and public
outreach. Second Life is a sort of immersive environment in which you
move your avatar around and communicate with other avatars. You can buy
and sell services and goods, attend presentations, sit in forums, etc.
A group - Real Life Government in Second Life - has even sprung up to
enable these agencies to discuss and share ideas about using Second
Life. Use of Second Life and other immersive experiences may expand in
coming years for education and training, collaboration, and information
retrieval. The Real Life Government in Second Life group has raised
questions about Section 508 from what I understand.



In talking with some folks across the subcommittees, it doesn't sound
like any of us have discussed the accessibility of these immersive
environments or networked virtual environments. (There are others
besides Second Life) Not an easy beast to tackle, let alone in time for
June/July deadlines, but an area we should at least discuss and explore.



I can set up a discussion with some of our SRA folks who work with the
Real Life Government in Second Life group (and potentially with some of
that group's members) but have hesitated as any demonstrations of the
Second Life environment would not be accessible.



Is there interest in exploring this through at least a discussion with
folks who have been working with the agencies and have insight into how
they're using Second Life? And if so, please think about which
subcommittee we should have take the ball on this one - general, video,
web-software?



Cheers,

Kate





Kate Walser

Director, Usability Center of Excellence

SRA International, Inc.

4300 Fair Lakes Court

Fairfax, VA 22033

(703) 502-1170






------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

From: Smith, Jamie
Date: Wed, Aug 01 2007 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility ofSecond Life and related applications

Oh! Sorry I misunderstood original request. But I'm glad we went through the process. The conceptualization of the fictious name was not understood by any user. I figured it out, but I use bulletin boards a lot. So I wouldn't have thought about something like the drop down "select last name" being so confusing. It could have been coded correctly and users would have still had problems.

BTW, I appreciate all that you and others are doing to make electronic information more accessible. I can't wait to see the new and improved 508.