Thread Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

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From: David Poehlman
Date: Thu, Jul 12 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

does anyone know if you can use this tool with AT?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hoffman, Allen" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution


One more follow up.

now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from post-boot, as
i recalled, can we require that, for example and discussions sake:

Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options available
at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.

This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
requirement.

I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".


Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

From: David Poehlman
Date: Thu, Jul 12 2007 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

does anyone know if you can use this tool with AT?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hoffman, Allen" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution


One more follow up.

now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from post-boot, as
i recalled, can we require that, for example and discussions sake:

Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options available
at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.

This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
requirement.

I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".


Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

From: Barrett, Don
Date: Thu, Jul 12 2007 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Yes, but it sure would be nice to insist that BIOS reconfiguration
programs are present when BIOS-specific information is available in the
architecture.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
Korn
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC Web/Software
Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Hi Allen, guys,

Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no exposed BIOS
user-interface for almost every other computing architecture and device.

Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on copiers, not
on MP3 players.

The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a limited
environment - there is no OS yet, there is no platform-defined set of
themes or color/contrast, etc.

I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write BIOS
recommendations in TEITAC.

We should treat the user interaction functionality provided by BIOS
configuration programs as we would anything else. If the system is a
"closed" system at the time the BIOS is running (no way to run AT), then
those provisions should apply. If there are no system-define color and
contrast settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
other rules that apply. Etc.

We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration that one
can do from a running system (as we're seeing are available from laptops
from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is sufficient. Since making changes to these
settings during the boot process is something you only *have* to do at
that time when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the scope of
most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that, I suggest that BIOS
re-configuration programs that you can use on a running system should
suffice, so long as they are of course accessible.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.


> One more follow up.
> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from post-boot,
> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and discussions sake:
> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
> requirement.
> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf Of *Gregg
> Vanderheiden
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
> subcommittee'
> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) - from within
> Windows- HP solution
>
> We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
> laptops.
>
> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for exploring and

> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
>
> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in is called
> BIOS Configuration.
>
> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a folder labeled
> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
>
> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
>
> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
>
> Gregg
>
> -- ------------------------------
>
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>

From: Peter Korn
Date: Thu, Jul 12 2007 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Hi Don,

Why?

If BIOS configuration is an option offered by a product, and the only
way that it is offered is inaccessible, then our usual standards should
apply and we're done. An aspect of the product is inaccessible and some
other vendor (e.g. HP, Dell, Lenovo) that provides an accessible version
of that feature should win the bid.

Why is there any need to explicitly call out a hardware implementation
detail of one computing architecture and cement it into our standards?


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Yes, but it sure would be nice to insist that BIOS reconfiguration
> programs are present when BIOS-specific information is available in the
> architecture.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
> Korn
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC Web/Software
> Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Hi Allen, guys,
>
> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no exposed BIOS
> user-interface for almost every other computing architecture and device.
>
> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on copiers, not
> on MP3 players.
>
> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a limited
> environment - there is no OS yet, there is no platform-defined set of
> themes or color/contrast, etc.
>
> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write BIOS
> recommendations in TEITAC.
>
> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided by BIOS
> configuration programs as we would anything else. If the system is a
> "closed" system at the time the BIOS is running (no way to run AT), then
> those provisions should apply. If there are no system-define color and
> contrast settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
> other rules that apply. Etc.
>
> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration that one
> can do from a running system (as we're seeing are available from laptops
> from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is sufficient. Since making changes to these
> settings during the boot process is something you only *have* to do at
> that time when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the scope of
> most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that, I suggest that BIOS
> re-configuration programs that you can use on a running system should
> suffice, so long as they are of course accessible.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
>
>> One more follow up.
>> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from post-boot,
>> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and discussions sake:
>> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
>> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
>> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
>> requirement.
>> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf Of *Gregg
>> Vanderheiden
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
>> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
>> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
>> subcommittee'
>> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) - from within
>> Windows- HP solution
>>
>> We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
>> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
>> laptops.
>>
>> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for exploring and
>>
>
>
>> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
>>
>> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in is called
>> BIOS Configuration.
>>
>> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a folder labeled
>> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
>>
>> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
>>
>> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>> -- ------------------------------
>>
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

In my proposed language I didn't define the architecture accept that
post-boot access is available, since providing AT in pre-boot is
certainly a much greater challenge, but if someone did provide full
access at pre-boot, they could just claim equivalent facilitation to
meet the requirement. I concur with Don, that the point is that there
is no requirement for access to BIOS configuration currently, it is
never accounted as a requirement when doing evaluations or requirements,
so is never discussed.




Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
Korn
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:32 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Hi Don,

Why?

If BIOS configuration is an option offered by a product, and the only
way that it is offered is inaccessible, then our usual standards should
apply and we're done. An aspect of the product is inaccessible and some
other vendor (e.g. HP, Dell, Lenovo) that provides an accessible version
of that feature should win the bid.

Why is there any need to explicitly call out a hardware implementation
detail of one computing architecture and cement it into our standards?


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Yes, but it sure would be nice to insist that BIOS reconfiguration
> programs are present when BIOS-specific information is available in
the
> architecture.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
> Korn
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
Web/Software
> Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Hi Allen, guys,
>
> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no exposed
BIOS
> user-interface for almost every other computing architecture and
device.
>
> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on copiers,
not
> on MP3 players.
>
> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a limited
> environment - there is no OS yet, there is no platform-defined set of
> themes or color/contrast, etc.
>
> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write BIOS
> recommendations in TEITAC.
>
> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided by BIOS
> configuration programs as we would anything else. If the system is a
> "closed" system at the time the BIOS is running (no way to run AT),
then
> those provisions should apply. If there are no system-define color and
> contrast settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
> other rules that apply. Etc.
>
> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration that one
> can do from a running system (as we're seeing are available from
laptops
> from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is sufficient. Since making changes to
these
> settings during the boot process is something you only *have* to do at
> that time when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix
a
> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the scope of
> most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that, I suggest that
BIOS
> re-configuration programs that you can use on a running system should
> suffice, so long as they are of course accessible.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
>
>> One more follow up.
>> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from post-boot,
>> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and discussions sake:
>> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
>> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
>> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
>> requirement.
>> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf Of *Gregg
>> Vanderheiden
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
>> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
>> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
>> subcommittee'
>> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) - from within
>> Windows- HP solution
>>
>> We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
>> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
>> laptops.
>>
>> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for exploring
and
>>
>
>
>> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
>>
>> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in is called

>> BIOS Configuration.
>>
>> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a folder labeled
>> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
>>
>> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
>>
>> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>> -- ------------------------------
>>
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

OK, but that accounts for, oh, lets say 99% of the desktop/laptop market
today. As one who has used alternatives that do allow access, for
example through serial connection at preboot, that is fine, and would
fulfill the requirement in my view.



Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
Korn
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC Web/Software
Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Hi Allen, guys,

Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no exposed BIOS
user-interface for almost every other computing architecture and device.

Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on copiers, not
on MP3 players.

The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a limited
environment - there is no OS yet, there is no platform-defined set of
themes or color/contrast, etc.

I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write BIOS
recommendations in TEITAC.

We should treat the user interaction functionality provided by BIOS
configuration programs as we would anything else. If the system is a
"closed" system at the time the BIOS is running (no way to run AT), then
those provisions should apply. If there are no system-define color and
contrast settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
other rules that apply. Etc.

We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration that one
can do from a running system (as we're seeing are available from laptops
from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is sufficient. Since making changes to these
settings during the boot process is something you only *have* to do at
that time when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the scope of
most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that, I suggest that BIOS
re-configuration programs that you can use on a running system should
suffice, so long as they are of course accessible.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.


> One more follow up.
> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from post-boot,
> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and discussions sake:
> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
> requirement.
> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf Of *Gregg
> Vanderheiden
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
> subcommittee'
> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) - from within
> Windows- HP solution
>
> We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
> laptops.
>
> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for exploring and

> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
>
> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in is called
> BIOS Configuration.
>
> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a folder labeled
> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
>
> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
>
> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
>
> Gregg
>
> -- ------------------------------
>
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Hmmmmm.

Is there a BIOS in Vista?

If there is, then there is a BIOS in 90-95% of the computer workstations in
the US gov (cause there is on all other Windows).

That seems pretty significant.

The question though is " Is the BIOS a user setting or not" . and is it
covered by our other provisions or not.

This may not be such a problem depending. But we should look at it
functionally and not treat is all as one type of issue or paint it all in or
all out.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Peter Korn
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:47 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
> Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Hi Allen, guys,
>
> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no
> exposed BIOS user-interface for almost every other computing
> architecture and device.
> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on
> copiers, not on MP3 players.
>
> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a
> limited environment - there is no OS yet, there is no
> platform-defined set of themes or color/contrast, etc.
>
> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write
> BIOS recommendations in TEITAC.
>
> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided
> by BIOS configuration programs as we would anything else. If
> the system is a "closed" system at the time the BIOS is
> running (no way to run AT), then those provisions should
> apply. If there are no system-define color and contrast
> settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
> other rules that apply. Etc.
>
> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration
> that one can do from a running system (as we're seeing are
> available from laptops from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is
> sufficient. Since making changes to these settings during the
> boot process is something you only *have* to do at that time
> when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the
> scope of most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that,
> I suggest that BIOS re-configuration programs that you can
> use on a running system should suffice, so long as they are
> of course accessible.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
> > One more follow up.
> > now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from
> post-boot,
> > as i recalled, can we require that, for example and
> discussions sake:
> > Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
> > available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
> > This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
> > requirement.
> > I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf
> Of *Gregg
> > Vanderheiden
> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
> > *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility
> Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
> > Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
> > subcommittee'
> > *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) -
> from within
> > Windows- HP solution
> >
> > We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
> > BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
> > laptops.
> >
> > The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for
> exploring and
> > changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
> >
> > The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in
> is called
> > BIOS Configuration.
> >
> > The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a
> folder labeled
> > "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
> >
> > Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
> >
> > (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > -- ------------------------------
> >
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Hmmmmm.

Is there a BIOS in Vista?

If there is, then there is a BIOS in 90-95% of the computer workstations in
the US gov (cause there is on all other Windows).

That seems pretty significant.

The question though is " Is the BIOS a user setting or not" . and is it
covered by our other provisions or not.

This may not be such a problem depending. But we should look at it
functionally and not treat is all as one type of issue or paint it all in or
all out.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Peter Korn
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:47 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
> Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Hi Allen, guys,
>
> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no
> exposed BIOS user-interface for almost every other computing
> architecture and device.
> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on
> copiers, not on MP3 players.
>
> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a
> limited environment - there is no OS yet, there is no
> platform-defined set of themes or color/contrast, etc.
>
> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write
> BIOS recommendations in TEITAC.
>
> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided
> by BIOS configuration programs as we would anything else. If
> the system is a "closed" system at the time the BIOS is
> running (no way to run AT), then those provisions should
> apply. If there are no system-define color and contrast
> settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
> other rules that apply. Etc.
>
> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration
> that one can do from a running system (as we're seeing are
> available from laptops from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is
> sufficient. Since making changes to these settings during the
> boot process is something you only *have* to do at that time
> when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the
> scope of most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that,
> I suggest that BIOS re-configuration programs that you can
> use on a running system should suffice, so long as they are
> of course accessible.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
> > One more follow up.
> > now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from
> post-boot,
> > as i recalled, can we require that, for example and
> discussions sake:
> > Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
> > available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
> > This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
> > requirement.
> > I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf
> Of *Gregg
> > Vanderheiden
> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
> > *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility
> Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
> > Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
> > subcommittee'
> > *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) -
> from within
> > Windows- HP solution
> >
> > We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
> > BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
> > laptops.
> >
> > The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for
> exploring and
> > changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
> >
> > The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in
> is called
> > BIOS Configuration.
> >
> > The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a
> folder labeled
> > "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
> >
> > Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
> >
> > (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > -- ------------------------------
> >
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >

From: Peter Korn
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Gregg,

You are asking the wrong question. The BIOS isn't in Vista. The BIOS
is in the firmware of the chips on an x86 computer. My Sun Opteron
workstation (using AMD's Operaton processor that uses the Intel x86
instruction set) contains a BIOS. And there is no Windows anywhere near
it (the closest Windows is several feet away, on another desk).

In the case of Dell, HP, Lenovo, it appears there is a program that will
run on Windows (XP, Vista, what-have-you) that presents a user interface
for making BIOS settings changes. That program may (or may not) be
accessible. The user interface that the BIOS itself presents - code
running from the firmware before any OS is loaded - faces huge
challenges in being fully accessible due to the nature of the computing
system at the time that that user interface is running.

Perhaps next week I can give a quick demo of this to you (and anyone
else interested) in DC over lunch...


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.


> Hmmmmm.
>
> Is there a BIOS in Vista?
>
> If there is, then there is a BIOS in 90-95% of the computer workstations in
> the US gov (cause there is on all other Windows).
>
> That seems pretty significant.
>
> The question though is " Is the BIOS a user setting or not" . and is it
> covered by our other provisions or not.
>
> This may not be such a problem depending. But we should look at it
> functionally and not treat is all as one type of issue or paint it all in or
> all out.
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
>> Of Peter Korn
>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:47 PM
>> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
>> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
>> Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
>> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>>
>> Hi Allen, guys,
>>
>> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
>> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no
>> exposed BIOS user-interface for almost every other computing
>> architecture and device.
>> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on
>> copiers, not on MP3 players.
>>
>> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a
>> limited environment - there is no OS yet, there is no
>> platform-defined set of themes or color/contrast, etc.
>>
>> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write
>> BIOS recommendations in TEITAC.
>>
>> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided
>> by BIOS configuration programs as we would anything else. If
>> the system is a "closed" system at the time the BIOS is
>> running (no way to run AT), then those provisions should
>> apply. If there are no system-define color and contrast
>> settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
>> other rules that apply. Etc.
>>
>> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration
>> that one can do from a running system (as we're seeing are
>> available from laptops from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is
>> sufficient. Since making changes to these settings during the
>> boot process is something you only *have* to do at that time
>> when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
>> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the
>> scope of most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that,
>> I suggest that BIOS re-configuration programs that you can
>> use on a running system should suffice, so long as they are
>> of course accessible.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Peter Korn
>> Accessibility Architect,
>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>> One more follow up.
>>> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from
>>>
>> post-boot,
>>
>>> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and
>>>
>> discussions sake:
>>
>>> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
>>> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
>>> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
>>> requirement.
>>> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
>>>
>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf
>>>
>> Of *Gregg
>>
>>> Vanderheiden
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
>>> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility
>>>
>> Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
>>
>>> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
>>> subcommittee'
>>> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) -
>>>
>> from within
>>
>>> Windows- HP solution
>>>
>>> We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
>>> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
>>> laptops.
>>>
>>> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for
>>>
>> exploring and
>>
>>> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
>>>
>>> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in
>>>
>> is called
>>
>>> BIOS Configuration.
>>>
>>> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a
>>>
>> folder labeled
>>
>>> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
>>>
>>> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
>>>
>>> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
>>>
>>> Gregg
>>>
>>> -- ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>

From: Peter Korn
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

Allen, Gregg, Don,

May I suggest a different approach here? May I suggest that we develop
language that explains what aspects of the 508 draft language applies to
making BIOS settings on x86 systems, and provide that language to the
Access Board as suggested text that go into a body of expository text
that accompany the 508 standard?

I recognize that the the overwhelming majority of desktops and laptops
that are purchased by the Federal government today come with a BIOS and
so have this issue. But then, the overwhelming majority of desktops and
laptops that are purchased by the Federal government today come with
Windows XP, and I think everyone would agree that we shouldn't write a
guideline that says "If your product is Windows XP, then you must...".


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> OK, but that accounts for, oh, lets say 99% of the desktop/laptop market
> today. As one who has used alternatives that do allow access, for
> example through serial connection at preboot, that is fine, and would
> fulfill the requirement in my view.
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
> Korn
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC Web/Software
> Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Hi Allen, guys,
>
> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no exposed BIOS
> user-interface for almost every other computing architecture and device.
>
> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on copiers, not
> on MP3 players.
>
> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a limited
> environment - there is no OS yet, there is no platform-defined set of
> themes or color/contrast, etc.
>
> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write BIOS
> recommendations in TEITAC.
>
> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided by BIOS
> configuration programs as we would anything else. If the system is a
> "closed" system at the time the BIOS is running (no way to run AT), then
> those provisions should apply. If there are no system-define color and
> contrast settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
> other rules that apply. Etc.
>
> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration that one
> can do from a running system (as we're seeing are available from laptops
> from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is sufficient. Since making changes to these
> settings during the boot process is something you only *have* to do at
> that time when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the scope of
> most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that, I suggest that BIOS
> re-configuration programs that you can use on a running system should
> suffice, so long as they are of course accessible.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
>
>> One more follow up.
>> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from post-boot,
>> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and discussions sake:
>> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
>> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
>> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
>> requirement.
>> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf Of *Gregg
>> Vanderheiden
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
>> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
>> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
>> subcommittee'
>> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) - from within
>> Windows- HP solution
>>
>> We talked about having an application in Windows that would set the
>> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
>> laptops.
>>
>> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for exploring and
>>
>
>
>> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
>>
>> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in is called
>> BIOS Configuration.
>>
>> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a folder labeled
>> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
>>
>> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like this at HP.
>>
>> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>> -- ------------------------------
>>
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

That sounds like a good approach to explore.

Especially if the BIOS issue is covered by provisions we have (different
aspects of the issue covered by different provisions. Perhaps an
application note or something would cover it.

And if some aspect is not covered, we should look at a generic guideline on
that topic. It would make the guidelines much more robust. And avoid a
provision like "for all program over 640k...." (grin)


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Peter Korn
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 3:06 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
> Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-general] [teitac-websoftware] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Allen, Gregg, Don,
>
> May I suggest a different approach here? May I suggest that
> we develop language that explains what aspects of the 508
> draft language applies to making BIOS settings on x86
> systems, and provide that language to the Access Board as
> suggested text that go into a body of expository text that
> accompany the 508 standard?
>
> I recognize that the the overwhelming majority of desktops
> and laptops that are purchased by the Federal government
> today come with a BIOS and so have this issue. But then, the
> overwhelming majority of desktops and laptops that are
> purchased by the Federal government today come with Windows
> XP, and I think everyone would agree that we shouldn't write
> a guideline that says "If your product is Windows XP, then
> you must...".
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > OK, but that accounts for, oh, lets say 99% of the desktop/laptop
> > market today. As one who has used alternatives that do
> allow access,
> > for example through serial connection at preboot, that is fine, and
> > would fulfill the requirement in my view.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Peter
> > Korn
> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:47 PM
> > To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> > Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
> > Web/Software Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> > Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
> >
> > Hi Allen, guys,
> >
> > Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> > implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no exposed
> > BIOS user-interface for almost every other computing
> architecture and device.
> >
> > Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on copiers,
> > not on MP3 players.
> >
> > The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a limited
> > environment - there is no OS yet, there is no
> platform-defined set of
> > themes or color/contrast, etc.
> >
> > I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write BIOS
> > recommendations in TEITAC.
> >
> > We should treat the user interaction functionality provided by BIOS
> > configuration programs as we would anything else. If the
> system is a
> > "closed" system at the time the BIOS is running (no way to run AT),
> > then those provisions should apply. If there are no system-define
> > color and contrast settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from,
> > then we have other rules that apply. Etc.
> >
> > We can also ask the question of whether BIOS
> re-configuration that one
> > can do from a running system (as we're seeing are available from
> > laptops from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is sufficient. Since
> making changes
> > to these settings during the boot process is something you
> only *have*
> > to do at that time when the system is failing to boot, I
> suggest that
> > the "fix a system when it is broken" situation is largely
> outside of
> > the scope of most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that, I
> > suggest that BIOS re-configuration programs that you can use on a
> > running system should suffice, so long as they are of
> course accessible.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter Korn
> > Accessibility Architect,
> > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> >> One more follow up.
> >> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from
> post-boot,
> >> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and
> discussions sake:
> >> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
> >> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
> >> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
> >> requirement.
> >> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
> >>
> >> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >> --
> >> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf
> Of *Gregg
> >> Vanderheiden
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
> >> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility
> Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
> >> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
> >> subcommittee'
> >> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) -
> from within
> >> Windows- HP solution
> >>
> >> We talked about having an application in Windows that
> would set the
> >> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
> >> laptops.
> >>
> >> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for exploring
> >> and
> >>
> >
> >
> >> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
> >>
> >> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the
> plug-in is called
> >> BIOS Configuration.
> >>
> >> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a
> folder labeled
> >> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
> >>
> >> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like
> this at HP.
> >>
> >> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
> >>
> >> Gregg
> >>
> >> -- ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >> --
> >>
> >>

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

I am extremely familiar with BIOSs.

Yes - I was playing loose with the term BIOS and VISTA.

And you describe it correctly below. More to the point though is how we
handle the interface it presents.

I think we should take the tack you posted in your other email - and see if
it is covered by the provisions we have.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Peter Korn
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 2:50 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee';
> 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Gregg,
>
> You are asking the wrong question. The BIOS isn't in Vista.
> The BIOS is in the firmware of the chips on an x86 computer.
> My Sun Opteron workstation (using AMD's Operaton processor
> that uses the Intel x86 instruction set) contains a BIOS.
> And there is no Windows anywhere near it (the closest Windows
> is several feet away, on another desk).
>
> In the case of Dell, HP, Lenovo, it appears there is a
> program that will run on Windows (XP, Vista, what-have-you)
> that presents a user interface for making BIOS settings
> changes. That program may (or may not) be accessible. The
> user interface that the BIOS itself presents - code running
> from the firmware before any OS is loaded - faces huge
> challenges in being fully accessible due to the nature of the
> computing system at the time that that user interface is running.
>
> Perhaps next week I can give a quick demo of this to you (and
> anyone else interested) in DC over lunch...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
> > Hmmmmm.
> >
> > Is there a BIOS in Vista?
> >
> > If there is, then there is a BIOS in 90-95% of the computer
> workstations in
> > the US gov (cause there is on all other Windows).
> >
> > That seems pretty significant.
> >
> > The question though is " Is the BIOS a user setting or not"
> . and is it
> > covered by our other provisions or not.
> >
> > This may not be such a problem depending. But we should look at it
> > functionally and not treat is all as one type of issue or
> paint it all in or
> > all out.
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> > -- ------------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> >> Of Peter Korn
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:47 PM
> >> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> >> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
> >> Web/Software Subcommittee
> >> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> >> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
> >>
> >> Hi Allen, guys,
> >>
> >> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> >> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no
> >> exposed BIOS user-interface for almost every other computing
> >> architecture and device.
> >> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on
> >> copiers, not on MP3 players.
> >>
> >> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a
> >> limited environment - there is no OS yet, there is no
> >> platform-defined set of themes or color/contrast, etc.
> >>
> >> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write
> >> BIOS recommendations in TEITAC.
> >>
> >> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided
> >> by BIOS configuration programs as we would anything else. If
> >> the system is a "closed" system at the time the BIOS is
> >> running (no way to run AT), then those provisions should
> >> apply. If there are no system-define color and contrast
> >> settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
> >> other rules that apply. Etc.
> >>
> >> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration
> >> that one can do from a running system (as we're seeing are
> >> available from laptops from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is
> >> sufficient. Since making changes to these settings during the
> >> boot process is something you only *have* to do at that time
> >> when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
> >> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the
> >> scope of most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that,
> >> I suggest that BIOS re-configuration programs that you can
> >> use on a running system should suffice, so long as they are
> >> of course accessible.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Peter Korn
> >> Accessibility Architect,
> >> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> One more follow up.
> >>> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from
> >>>
> >> post-boot,
> >>
> >>> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and
> >>>
> >> discussions sake:
> >>
> >>> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
> >>> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
> >>> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
> >>> requirement.
> >>> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
> >>>
> >>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>> --
> >>> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf
> >>>
> >> Of *Gregg
> >>
> >>> Vanderheiden
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
> >>> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility
> >>>
> >> Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
> >>
> >>> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
> >>> subcommittee'
> >>> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) -
> >>>
> >> from within
> >>
> >>> Windows- HP solution
> >>>
> >>> We talked about having an application in Windows that
> would set the
> >>> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
> >>> laptops.
> >>>
> >>> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for
> >>>
> >> exploring and
> >>
> >>> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
> >>>
> >>> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in
> >>>
> >> is called
> >>
> >>> BIOS Configuration.
> >>>
> >>> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a
> >>>
> >> folder labeled
> >>
> >>> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like
> this at HP.
> >>>
> >>> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
> >>>
> >>> Gregg
> >>>
> >>> -- ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Jul 13 2007 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: BIOS Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution

I am extremely familiar with BIOSs.

Yes - I was playing loose with the term BIOS and VISTA.

And you describe it correctly below. More to the point though is how we
handle the interface it presents.

I think we should take the tack you posted in your other email - and see if
it is covered by the provisions we have.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Peter Korn
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 2:50 PM
> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> Cc: 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee';
> 'TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
>
> Gregg,
>
> You are asking the wrong question. The BIOS isn't in Vista.
> The BIOS is in the firmware of the chips on an x86 computer.
> My Sun Opteron workstation (using AMD's Operaton processor
> that uses the Intel x86 instruction set) contains a BIOS.
> And there is no Windows anywhere near it (the closest Windows
> is several feet away, on another desk).
>
> In the case of Dell, HP, Lenovo, it appears there is a
> program that will run on Windows (XP, Vista, what-have-you)
> that presents a user interface for making BIOS settings
> changes. That program may (or may not) be accessible. The
> user interface that the BIOS itself presents - code running
> from the firmware before any OS is loaded - faces huge
> challenges in being fully accessible due to the nature of the
> computing system at the time that that user interface is running.
>
> Perhaps next week I can give a quick demo of this to you (and
> anyone else interested) in DC over lunch...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
> > Hmmmmm.
> >
> > Is there a BIOS in Vista?
> >
> > If there is, then there is a BIOS in 90-95% of the computer
> workstations in
> > the US gov (cause there is on all other Windows).
> >
> > That seems pretty significant.
> >
> > The question though is " Is the BIOS a user setting or not"
> . and is it
> > covered by our other provisions or not.
> >
> > This may not be such a problem depending. But we should look at it
> > functionally and not treat is all as one type of issue or
> paint it all in or
> > all out.
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> > -- ------------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> >> Of Peter Korn
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:47 PM
> >> To: TEITAC General Interface Accessibility Subcommittee
> >> Cc: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee; TEITAC
> >> Web/Software Subcommittee
> >> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] [teitac-general] BIOS
> >> Accessibility(TETIAC) - from within Windows- HP solution
> >>
> >> Hi Allen, guys,
> >>
> >> Please remember that the BIOS issues we are discussing are an
> >> implementation detail of x86 PC-based systems. There is no
> >> exposed BIOS user-interface for almost every other computing
> >> architecture and device.
> >> Not on Macintosh, not on SPARC, not on cell phones, not on
> >> copiers, not on MP3 players.
> >>
> >> The exposed BIOS user interface is a program running in a
> >> limited environment - there is no OS yet, there is no
> >> platform-defined set of themes or color/contrast, etc.
> >>
> >> I believe strongly that it would be wrong for us to write
> >> BIOS recommendations in TEITAC.
> >>
> >> We should treat the user interaction functionality provided
> >> by BIOS configuration programs as we would anything else. If
> >> the system is a "closed" system at the time the BIOS is
> >> running (no way to run AT), then those provisions should
> >> apply. If there are no system-define color and contrast
> >> settings that the BIOS config UI can draw from, then we have
> >> other rules that apply. Etc.
> >>
> >> We can also ask the question of whether BIOS re-configuration
> >> that one can do from a running system (as we're seeing are
> >> available from laptops from HP, Dell, and Lenovo) is
> >> sufficient. Since making changes to these settings during the
> >> boot process is something you only *have* to do at that time
> >> when the system is failing to boot, I suggest that the "fix a
> >> system when it is broken" situation is largely outside of the
> >> scope of most of the 508 technical standards. Based on that,
> >> I suggest that BIOS re-configuration programs that you can
> >> use on a running system should suffice, so long as they are
> >> of course accessible.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Peter Korn
> >> Accessibility Architect,
> >> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> One more follow up.
> >>> now that we do know that some BIOS(s) are updateable from
> >>>
> >> post-boot,
> >>
> >>> as i recalled, can we require that, for example and
> >>>
> >> discussions sake:
> >>
> >>> Desktop and portable computers hardware configuration options
> >>> available at pre-boot time, must also be configurable after boot.
> >>> This seems broad enough to allow various solutions to meet this
> >>> requirement.
> >>> I'd think this requirement would go in "hardware".
> >>>
> >>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>> --
> >>> *From:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] *On Behalf
> >>>
> >> Of *Gregg
> >>
> >>> Vanderheiden
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:28 AM
> >>> *To:* 'TEITAC General Interface Accessibility
> >>>
> >> Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC
> >>
> >>> Web/Software Subcommittee'; 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware)
> >>> subcommittee'
> >>> *Subject:* [teitac-general] BIOS Accessibility (TETIAC) -
> >>>
> >> from within
> >>
> >>> Windows- HP solution
> >>>
> >>> We talked about having an application in Windows that
> would set the
> >>> BIOS values. HP does this as a standard provision in their current
> >>> laptops.
> >>>
> >>> The BIOS provides WMI (Windows Management Interface) for
> >>>
> >> exploring and
> >>
> >>> changing BIOS configuration settings under Windows.
> >>>
> >>> The GUI is provided through HP ProtectTools and the plug-in
> >>>
> >> is called
> >>
> >>> BIOS Configuration.
> >>>
> >>> The ProtectTools utility is under the START menu in a
> >>>
> >> folder labeled
> >>
> >>> "HP". A screen shot of the utility is provided below
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Michael for the pointer and for doing things like
> this at HP.
> >>>
> >>> (Picture courtesy of my own laptop)
> >>>
> >>> Gregg
> >>>
> >>> -- ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>