Thread Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Return to this mailing list's archives

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.

Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
language, and the language of any sections which are in another language
from the primary language.



Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

From: Peter Korn
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Hi Allen,

We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
Notepad) won't be able to do this.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
>
> Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> language, and the language of any sections which are in another language
> from the primary language.
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>

From: Whitney Quesenbery
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

In web pages/HTML (at least), isn't language identification a markup? In
which case, any text editor can support it.

W

At 02:56 PM 9/4/2007, Peter Korn wrote:

>Hi Allen,
>
>We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
>Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Peter Korn
>Accessibility Architect,
>Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Sep 06 2007 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new standards,
I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in 508? We do
have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and this seems like
it is not needed in the U.S. standard.

What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
formats and web and software provisions?

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Peter Korn
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Thu, Sep 06 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Andrew:
My recollection of the discussion was that it supports allowing
synthetic speech outputs to change pronunciation to the language to be
read, think of hearing Spanish using English pronunciation rules.

I think this is also in the spirit of "raising the bar".

I think we could seriously consider combining them in to one provision
however, since I'm not sure having D without E is worth a heck of a lot.
That would move us back to at least one less provision recommendation.

In the US we have a lot of multi-lingual content, so this is an issue on
occasion. I wouldn't raise this to something we MUST do due to
technology change, but it would be a good inclusion and is testable. D
is more easily testable than E, since E requires that the page be
analyzed, probably word by word for language change to identify if the
language change was identified.





Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new standards,
I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in 508? We do
have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and this seems like
it is not needed in the U.S. standard.

What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
formats and web and software provisions?

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter

> Korn
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: terry.weaver@gsa.gov
Date: Thu, Sep 06 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

I am not the most knowledgeable person on this subject but I am aware of an obligation/policy/regulation on Federal sites to have non-English versions. For the majority of sites engaged in meeting this obligation, it means having a Spanish language version although there are some sites with additional language version.

Does this mean that videos on this sites need to be close-captioned or audio-described in another language?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 09/06/2007 06:32 AM MST
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format



In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new standards,
I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in 508? We do
have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and this seems like
it is not needed in the U.S. standard.

What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
formats and web and software provisions?

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Peter Korn
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Sep 06 2007 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

I wasn't aware of that requirement. I agree with Allen's comment that
the requirement to support changes in language is much harder to test
and develop.
AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:36 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> I am not the most knowledgeable person on this subject but I
> am aware of an obligation/policy/regulation on Federal sites
> to have non-English versions. For the majority of sites
> engaged in meeting this obligation, it means having a Spanish
> language version although there are some sites with
> additional language version.
>
> Does this mean that videos on this sites need to be
> close-captioned or audio-described in another language?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 09/06/2007 06:32 AM MST
> To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
>
>
> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language
> support in 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have
> not included, and this seems like it is not needed in the
> U.S. standard.
>
> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in
> content formats and web and software provisions?
>
> AWK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Peter
> > Korn
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> > To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
> >
> > Hi Allen,
> >
> > We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> > Notepad) won't be able to do this.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter Korn
> > Accessibility Architect,
> > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> > >
> > > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> > another language
> > > from the primary language.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> > >

From: Sean Hayes
Date: Thu, Sep 06 2007 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

I imagine that the US very occasionally finds the need to interchange material with the rest of the world.

Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft

Office: +44 118 909 5867,
Mobile: +44 7875 091385


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
Sent: 06 September 2007 15:53
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

I wasn't aware of that requirement. I agree with Allen's comment that
the requirement to support changes in language is much harder to test
and develop.
AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:36 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> I am not the most knowledgeable person on this subject but I
> am aware of an obligation/policy/regulation on Federal sites
> to have non-English versions. For the majority of sites
> engaged in meeting this obligation, it means having a Spanish
> language version although there are some sites with
> additional language version.
>
> Does this mean that videos on this sites need to be
> close-captioned or audio-described in another language?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 09/06/2007 06:32 AM MST
> To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
>
>
> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language
> support in 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have
> not included, and this seems like it is not needed in the
> U.S. standard.
>
> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in
> content formats and web and software provisions?
>
> AWK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Peter
> > Korn
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> > To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
> >
> > Hi Allen,
> >
> > We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> > Notepad) won't be able to do this.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter Korn
> > Accessibility Architect,
> > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> > >
> > > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> > another language
> > > from the primary language.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> > >

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Thu, Sep 06 2007 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

This requirement would not directly say that for captioning/video
description, but if multi lingual items are produced, then it is logical
to assume that multi-lingual captiononing/video-description would be
provided.

While subtitling does not contain all features of 708 for author and
end-user control, we have demonstrated that subtitles can be produced in
various versions on a media that the user can select from for their
preference within some ranges.




Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:36 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

I am not the most knowledgeable person on this subject but I am aware of
an obligation/policy/regulation on Federal sites to have non-English
versions. For the majority of sites engaged in meeting this obligation,
it means having a Spanish language version although there are some sites
with additional language version.

Does this mean that videos on this sites need to be close-captioned or
audio-described in another language?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 09/06/2007 06:32 AM MST
To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format



In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new standards,
I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in 508? We do
have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and this seems like
it is not needed in the U.S. standard.

What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
formats and web and software provisions?

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter

> Korn
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: Tom Brett
Date: Thu, Sep 06 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

OMB M05-04 addresses accessibility for Government websites. This memo
states: Your agency is already required to provide appropriate access for
people with limited English proficiency by implementing Department of
Justice guidance for Executive Order 13166, "Improving Access to Services
for People with Limited English Proficiency." Agencies must determine
whether any individual document on their Federal agency public website(s)
requires translation. For additional information see:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/Pubs/lepqa.htm

Tom Brett


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Hayes
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:55 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

I imagine that the US very occasionally finds the need to interchange
material with the rest of the world.

Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft

Office: +44 118 909 5867,
Mobile: +44 7875 091385


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: 06 September 2007 15:53
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

I wasn't aware of that requirement. I agree with Allen's comment that
the requirement to support changes in language is much harder to test
and develop.
AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:36 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> I am not the most knowledgeable person on this subject but I
> am aware of an obligation/policy/regulation on Federal sites
> to have non-English versions. For the majority of sites
> engaged in meeting this obligation, it means having a Spanish
> language version although there are some sites with
> additional language version.
>
> Does this mean that videos on this sites need to be
> close-captioned or audio-described in another language?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 09/06/2007 06:32 AM MST
> To: "TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
>
>
> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language
> support in 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have
> not included, and this seems like it is not needed in the
> U.S. standard.
>
> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in
> content formats and web and software provisions?
>
> AWK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Peter
> > Korn
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> > To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
> >
> > Hi Allen,
> >
> > We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> > Notepad) won't be able to do this.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter Korn
> > Accessibility Architect,
> > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> > >
> > > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> > another language
> > > from the primary language.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> > >

From: Robinson, Norman B - Washington, DC
Date: Fri, Sep 07 2007 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Peers,

To give a specific example, when we say "content formats" a
specific example would be HTML or XML? Should we be referencing RFC 4647
(http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4646.txt)?

Thus Peter's comment that simple text editors won't be able to
"do this" isn't the issue. The issue is one of the "content format"
(HTML in this example) should support it, and if you use a simple text
editor that is no different than any other tag - you need to know what
you are doing and (dare I say it) validate your content.

The article "Language tags in HTML and XML" may be useful to the
reader:
http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php

Regards,


Norman B. Robinson
Section 508 Coordinator
IT Governance, US Postal Service
phone: 202.268.8246


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
Hoffman, Allen
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:54 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format


Andrew:
My recollection of the discussion was that it supports allowing
synthetic speech outputs to change pronunciation to the language to be
read, think of hearing Spanish using English pronunciation rules.

I think this is also in the spirit of "raising the bar".

I think we could seriously consider combining them in to one provision
however, since I'm not sure having D without E is worth a heck of a lot.
That would move us back to at least one less provision recommendation.

In the US we have a lot of multi-lingual content, so this is an issue on
occasion. I wouldn't raise this to something we MUST do due to
technology change, but it would be a good inclusion and is testable. D
is more easily testable than E, since E requires that the page be
analyzed, probably word by word for language change to identify if the
language change was identified.





Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new standards,
I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in 508? We do
have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and this seems like
it is not needed in the U.S. standard.

What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
formats and web and software provisions?

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter

> Korn
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: Smith, Jamie
Date: Wed, Sep 12 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida, public
information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as English. Some
documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test materials
and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test examples are
always in English. The lack of coding for the language did cause speech
to select a language and attempt to read the Creole with that language.
>From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was back
to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the doctype
and then to the specific sections which had a different language fixed
the problem. The reason the language code wasn't done, simply because
it wasn't required.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new standards,
I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in 508? We do
have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and this seems like
it is not needed in the U.S. standard.

What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
formats and web and software provisions?

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter

> Korn
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Wed, Sep 12 2007 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!




Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Smith,
Jamie
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida, public
information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as English. Some
documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test materials
and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test examples are
always in English. The lack of coding for the language did cause speech
to select a language and attempt to read the Creole with that language.
>From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
>back
to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the doctype
and then to the specific sections which had a different language fixed
the problem. The reason the language code wasn't done, simply because
it wasn't required.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new standards,
I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in 508? We do
have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and this seems like
it is not needed in the U.S. standard.

What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
formats and web and software provisions?

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter

> Korn
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> >
> > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> another language
> > from the primary language.
> >
> >
> >
> > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> >

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Just for the record, my objection is more to the "changes in language"
section. Seems like a lot of extra work to verify this...
AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Hoffman, Allen
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:34 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!
>
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Smith, Jamie
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In
> Florida, public information is often in Spanish and Creole as
> well as English. Some documents are the "Florida
> Comprehensive Assessment Test" test materials and while the
> document is in Spanish or Creole the test examples are always
> in English. The lack of coding for the language did cause
> speech to select a language and attempt to read the Creole
> with that language.
> >From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
> >back
> to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in
> the doctype and then to the specific sections which had a
> different language fixed the problem. The reason the
> language code wasn't done, simply because it wasn't required.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language
> support in 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have
> not included, and this seems like it is not needed in the
> U.S. standard.
>
> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in
> content formats and web and software provisions?
>
> AWK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Peter
>
> > Korn
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> > To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
> >
> > Hi Allen,
> >
> > We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> > Notepad) won't be able to do this.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter Korn
> > Accessibility Architect,
> > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> > >
> > > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> > another language
> > > from the primary language.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> > >

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2007 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Andrew:

It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't think this
is an overwhelming requirement to test to a reasonable degree via
automated means.

General test logic:
if content has no language identifier, it fails.
if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
by character, or word analysis, it can be determined that
content contains more than the initial language identifier.

nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult, but spell
check can probably address such a requirement by including language
identification as part of that function. I'd expect language
identification would have to be part of any multi-lingual authoring tool
anyway at some point.





Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:15 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

Just for the record, my objection is more to the "changes in language"
section. Seems like a lot of extra work to verify this...
AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Hoffman, Allen
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:34 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!
>
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Smith, Jamie
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida,
> public information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as English.

> Some documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test
> materials and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test
> examples are always in English. The lack of coding for the language
> did cause speech to select a language and attempt to read the Creole
> with that language.
> >From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
> >back
> to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the
> doctype and then to the specific sections which had a different
> language fixed the problem. The reason the language code wasn't done,

> simply because it wasn't required.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in
> 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and
> this seems like it is not needed in the U.S. standard.
>
> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
> formats and web and software provisions?
>
> AWK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Peter
>
> > Korn
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
> > To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
> >
> > Hi Allen,
> >
> > We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
> > Notepad) won't be able to do this.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter Korn
> > Accessibility Architect,
> > Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > > Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
> > >
> > > Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
> > > programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
> > > language, and the language of any sections which are in
> > another language
> > > from the primary language.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
> > >

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2007 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

> It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't
> think this is an overwhelming requirement to test to a
> reasonable degree via automated means.
>
> General test logic:
> if content has no language identifier, it fails.
> if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
> by character, or word analysis, it can be determined
> that content contains more than the initial language identifier.

In an automated way? I'm not sure I buy that.

> nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult,
> but spell check can probably address such a requirement by
> including language identification as part of that function.
> I'd expect language identification would have to be part of
> any multi-lingual authoring tool anyway at some point.

That's part of the problem. We're not talking about what may happen at
some point, we need to make standards that are realistic and impactful
now.

AWK

From: Robinson, Norman B - Washington, DC
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2007 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

I'll mention it again: if we aren't specific we are failing. We
need to refer to the specific standard (e.g.,
http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2) or we will get n number of
implementations using different standards. Should we be referencing RFC
4647
(http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4646.txt) or have specific ones for
the major contents? I don't know.

Regards,


Norman B. Robinson
Section 508 Coordinator
IT Governance, US Postal Service
phone: 202.268.8246

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:40 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format


> It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't
> think this is an overwhelming requirement to test to a
> reasonable degree via automated means.
>
> General test logic:
> if content has no language identifier, it fails.
> if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
> by character, or word analysis, it can be determined
> that content contains more than the initial language identifier.

In an automated way? I'm not sure I buy that.

> nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult,
> but spell check can probably address such a requirement by
> including language identification as part of that function.
> I'd expect language identification would have to be part of
> any multi-lingual authoring tool anyway at some point.

That's part of the problem. We're not talking about what may happen at
some point, we need to make standards that are realistic and impactful
now.

AWK

From: Peter Korn
Date: Fri, Sep 14 2007 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Hi Allen,

I think your test is too simplistic. Do we truly intend to say that an
ASCII document (or e-mail or...) fails? Or should we find language to
make it clear we are talking about a rich text document format.

Certainly it should be understood that switching languages in ASCII,
there is no way for an assistive technology to know what is going on.

Maybe this is more of a communication issue than a procurement issue...


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Andrew:
>
> It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't think this
> is an overwhelming requirement to test to a reasonable degree via
> automated means.
>
> General test logic:
> if content has no language identifier, it fails.
> if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
> by character, or word analysis, it can be determined that
> content contains more than the initial language identifier.
>
> nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult, but spell
> check can probably address such a requirement by including language
> identification as part of that function. I'd expect language
> identification would have to be part of any multi-lingual authoring tool
> anyway at some point.
>
>
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Kirkpatrick
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:15 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Just for the record, my objection is more to the "changes in language"
> section. Seems like a lot of extra work to verify this...
> AWK
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Hoffman, Allen
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:34 PM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Smith, Jamie
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida,
>> public information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as English.
>>
>
>
>> Some documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test
>> materials and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test
>> examples are always in English. The lack of coding for the language
>> did cause speech to select a language and attempt to read the Creole
>> with that language.
>> >From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
>>
>>> back
>>>
>> to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the
>> doctype and then to the specific sections which had a different
>> language fixed the problem. The reason the language code wasn't done,
>>
>
>
>> simply because it wasn't required.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
>> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in
>> 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and
>> this seems like it is not needed in the U.S. standard.
>>
>> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
>> formats and web and software provisions?
>>
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>>>
>> Behalf Of Peter
>>
>>
>>> Korn
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> Hi Allen,
>>>
>>> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
>>> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Peter Korn
>>> Accessibility Architect,
>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
>>>>
>>>> Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
>>>> programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
>>>> language, and the language of any sections which are in
>>>>
>>> another language
>>>
>>>> from the primary language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>>

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Peter:

My take is, ASCII would not allow language identification, so
application of that standard for a product sing that format while
feasible will yield a noncompliant result.

So lets say I'm comparing three products for selection:

1. product delivering information in ASCII in multiple languages.
2. Product delivering information in multiple languages in HTML.
3. Product delivering information in one language in ASCII.

Product 1 would fail 3d and 3e.
Product 2 would be able to pass both if coded by the vendor correctly.
Product 3 would fail both.


We might just write that the natural language of each portion of content
must be programmatically determinable from mark up. wouldn't that
encapsulate this better?



Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
Korn
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:46 AM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

Hi Allen,

I think your test is too simplistic. Do we truly intend to say that an
ASCII document (or e-mail or...) fails? Or should we find language to
make it clear we are talking about a rich text document format.

Certainly it should be understood that switching languages in ASCII,
there is no way for an assistive technology to know what is going on.

Maybe this is more of a communication issue than a procurement issue...


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Andrew:
>
> It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't think
> this is an overwhelming requirement to test to a reasonable degree via

> automated means.
>
> General test logic:
> if content has no language identifier, it fails.
> if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
> by character, or word analysis, it can be determined that
content
> contains more than the initial language identifier.
>
> nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult, but spell
> check can probably address such a requirement by including language
> identification as part of that function. I'd expect language
> identification would have to be part of any multi-lingual authoring
> tool anyway at some point.
>
>
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:15 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Just for the record, my objection is more to the "changes in language"
> section. Seems like a lot of extra work to verify this...
> AWK
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Hoffman, Allen
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:34 PM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Smith, Jamie
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida,
>> public information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as English.
>>
>
>
>> Some documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test
>> materials and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test
>> examples are always in English. The lack of coding for the language
>> did cause speech to select a language and attempt to read the Creole
>> with that language.
>> >From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
>>
>>> back
>>>
>> to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the
>> doctype and then to the specific sections which had a different
>> language fixed the problem. The reason the language code wasn't
>> done,
>>
>
>
>> simply because it wasn't required.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
>> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in

>> 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and
>> this seems like it is not needed in the U.S. standard.
>>
>> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
>> formats and web and software provisions?
>>
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>>>
>> Behalf Of Peter
>>
>>
>>> Korn
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> Hi Allen,
>>>
>>> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
>>> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Peter Korn
>>> Accessibility Architect,
>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
>>>>
>>>> Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
>>>> programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
>>>> language, and the language of any sections which are in
>>>>
>>> another language
>>>
>>>> from the primary language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>>

From: Peter Korn
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Hi Allen,

I understand your logic, and I agree with your conclusions. But I
remain concerned that we are essentially saying that governments shall
not use ASCII for documents. We have not yet settled the question of
where these provisions should be applied - just to published web
documents? to formal memos in e-mail from management? to all documents
exchanged within the government on any topic? - but when we do, I think
we will find a lot of opposition to saying that ASCII cannot be used for
that purpose.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Peter:
>
> My take is, ASCII would not allow language identification, so
> application of that standard for a product sing that format while
> feasible will yield a noncompliant result.
>
> So lets say I'm comparing three products for selection:
>
> 1. product delivering information in ASCII in multiple languages.
> 2. Product delivering information in multiple languages in HTML.
> 3. Product delivering information in one language in ASCII.
>
> Product 1 would fail 3d and 3e.
> Product 2 would be able to pass both if coded by the vendor correctly.
> Product 3 would fail both.
>
>
> We might just write that the natural language of each portion of content
> must be programmatically determinable from mark up. wouldn't that
> encapsulate this better?
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
> Korn
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:46 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> I think your test is too simplistic. Do we truly intend to say that an
> ASCII document (or e-mail or...) fails? Or should we find language to
> make it clear we are talking about a rich text document format.
>
> Certainly it should be understood that switching languages in ASCII,
> there is no way for an assistive technology to know what is going on.
>
> Maybe this is more of a communication issue than a procurement issue...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
>> Andrew:
>>
>> It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't think
>> this is an overwhelming requirement to test to a reasonable degree via
>>
>
>
>> automated means.
>>
>> General test logic:
>> if content has no language identifier, it fails.
>> if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
>> by character, or word analysis, it can be determined that
>>
> content
>
>> contains more than the initial language identifier.
>>
>> nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult, but spell
>> check can probably address such a requirement by including language
>> identification as part of that function. I'd expect language
>> identification would have to be part of any multi-lingual authoring
>> tool anyway at some point.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:15 AM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> Just for the record, my objection is more to the "changes in language"
>> section. Seems like a lot of extra work to verify this...
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Hoffman, Allen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:34 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Smith, Jamie
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida,
>>> public information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as English.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Some documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test
>>> materials and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test
>>> examples are always in English. The lack of coding for the language
>>> did cause speech to select a language and attempt to read the Creole
>>> with that language.
>>> >From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
>>>
>>>
>>>> back
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the
>>> doctype and then to the specific sections which had a different
>>> language fixed the problem. The reason the language code wasn't
>>> done,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> simply because it wasn't required.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
>>> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language support in
>>>
>
>
>>> 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and
>>> this seems like it is not needed in the U.S. standard.
>>>
>>> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
>>> formats and web and software provisions?
>>>
>>> AWK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Behalf Of Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Korn
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
>>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>>
>>>> Hi Allen,
>>>>
>>>> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
>>>> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Peter Korn
>>>> Accessibility Architect,
>>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
>>>>>
>>>>> Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
>>>>> programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
>>>>> language, and the language of any sections which are in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> another language
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> from the primary language.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>>>

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

Hmmmm:

I'd say more that:

ASCII shall not be used for documents that contain tables, columns, or
other format that requires additional mark up. the 3d/3e (they moved in
the 914 release), may be problematic.

One could always use <language> as a convention in ASCII documents, but
it really wouldn't easily drive AT, of course unless AT made use of the
convention in some way--but I don't think plain-text can really
accomplish that.

The simple truth here is that plain ASCII can't do the same things text
with mark up can in terms of accessibility.

I think that is the main point to make, rather than prohibiting ASCII as
the interpretation. You may be correct that some will interpret this in
that way--we might consider an exception for the 3d for plain-text only,
but not for 3e, as language changing should require better underlying
infrastructure to support accessibility.




Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
Korn
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:31 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

Hi Allen,

I understand your logic, and I agree with your conclusions. But I
remain concerned that we are essentially saying that governments shall
not use ASCII for documents. We have not yet settled the question of
where these provisions should be applied - just to published web
documents? to formal memos in e-mail from management? to all documents
exchanged within the government on any topic? - but when we do, I think
we will find a lot of opposition to saying that ASCII cannot be used for
that purpose.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Peter:
>
> My take is, ASCII would not allow language identification, so
> application of that standard for a product sing that format while
> feasible will yield a noncompliant result.
>
> So lets say I'm comparing three products for selection:
>
> 1. product delivering information in ASCII in multiple languages.
> 2. Product delivering information in multiple languages in HTML.
> 3. Product delivering information in one language in ASCII.
>
> Product 1 would fail 3d and 3e.
> Product 2 would be able to pass both if coded by the vendor correctly.
> Product 3 would fail both.
>
>
> We might just write that the natural language of each portion of
> content must be programmatically determinable from mark up. wouldn't
> that encapsulate this better?
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter

> Korn
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:46 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> I think your test is too simplistic. Do we truly intend to say that
> an ASCII document (or e-mail or...) fails? Or should we find language

> to make it clear we are talking about a rich text document format.
>
> Certainly it should be understood that switching languages in ASCII,
> there is no way for an assistive technology to know what is going on.
>
> Maybe this is more of a communication issue than a procurement
issue...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
>> Andrew:
>>
>> It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't think
>> this is an overwhelming requirement to test to a reasonable degree
>> via
>>
>
>
>> automated means.
>>
>> General test logic:
>> if content has no language identifier, it fails.
>> if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
>> by character, or word analysis, it can be determined that
>>
> content
>
>> contains more than the initial language identifier.
>>
>> nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult, but spell

>> check can probably address such a requirement by including language
>> identification as part of that function. I'd expect language
>> identification would have to be part of any multi-lingual authoring
>> tool anyway at some point.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:15 AM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> Just for the record, my objection is more to the "changes in
language"
>> section. Seems like a lot of extra work to verify this...
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Hoffman, Allen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:34 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Smith, Jamie
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida,
>>> public information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as
English.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Some documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test
>>> materials and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test
>>> examples are always in English. The lack of coding for the language

>>> did cause speech to select a language and attempt to read the Creole

>>> with that language.
>>> >From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
>>>
>>>
>>>> back
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the
>>> doctype and then to the specific sections which had a different
>>> language fixed the problem. The reason the language code wasn't
>>> done,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> simply because it wasn't required.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
>>> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language support
>>> in
>>>
>
>
>>> 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and

>>> this seems like it is not needed in the U.S. standard.
>>>
>>> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
>>> formats and web and software provisions?
>>>
>>> AWK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Behalf Of Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Korn
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
>>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>>
>>>> Hi Allen,
>>>>
>>>> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
>>>> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Peter Korn
>>>> Accessibility Architect,
>>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
>>>>>
>>>>> Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
>>>>> programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
>>>>> language, and the language of any sections which are in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> another language
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> from the primary language.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>>>

From: Sean Hayes
Date: Tue, Sep 18 2007 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: 3d/3e for content format

The problem here is in the framing (assuming we are going to keep it) the problem is that the phrase

"When a content format supports multiple languages..."

Is not discriminating enough, as 'support is so open ended. You can put English and Spanish in the same ASCII document fairly readily, but you couldn't reliably extract the Spanish words without a fair degree of intelligence.

Perhaps if we change the discrimination to:

"When a content format supports structured text..."

As a generalisation of 'markup' we then have a place to hang language changes of passages.

Sean Hayes
Incubation Lab
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft

Office: +44 118 909 5867,
Mobile: +44 7875 091385


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Hoffman, Allen
Sent: 17 September 2007 20:38
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

Hmmmm:

I'd say more that:

ASCII shall not be used for documents that contain tables, columns, or
other format that requires additional mark up. the 3d/3e (they moved in
the 914 release), may be problematic.

One could always use <language> as a convention in ASCII documents, but
it really wouldn't easily drive AT, of course unless AT made use of the
convention in some way--but I don't think plain-text can really
accomplish that.

The simple truth here is that plain ASCII can't do the same things text
with mark up can in terms of accessibility.

I think that is the main point to make, rather than prohibiting ASCII as
the interpretation. You may be correct that some will interpret this in
that way--we might consider an exception for the 3d for plain-text only,
but not for 3e, as language changing should require better underlying
infrastructure to support accessibility.




Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter
Korn
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:31 PM
To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format

Hi Allen,

I understand your logic, and I agree with your conclusions. But I
remain concerned that we are essentially saying that governments shall
not use ASCII for documents. We have not yet settled the question of
where these provisions should be applied - just to published web
documents? to formal memos in e-mail from management? to all documents
exchanged within the government on any topic? - but when we do, I think
we will find a lot of opposition to saying that ASCII cannot be used for
that purpose.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Peter:
>
> My take is, ASCII would not allow language identification, so
> application of that standard for a product sing that format while
> feasible will yield a noncompliant result.
>
> So lets say I'm comparing three products for selection:
>
> 1. product delivering information in ASCII in multiple languages.
> 2. Product delivering information in multiple languages in HTML.
> 3. Product delivering information in one language in ASCII.
>
> Product 1 would fail 3d and 3e.
> Product 2 would be able to pass both if coded by the vendor correctly.
> Product 3 would fail both.
>
>
> We might just write that the natural language of each portion of
> content must be programmatically determinable from mark up. wouldn't
> that encapsulate this better?
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter

> Korn
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:46 AM
> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> I think your test is too simplistic. Do we truly intend to say that
> an ASCII document (or e-mail or...) fails? Or should we find language

> to make it clear we are talking about a rich text document format.
>
> Certainly it should be understood that switching languages in ASCII,
> there is no way for an assistive technology to know what is going on.
>
> Maybe this is more of a communication issue than a procurement
issue...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Accessibility Architect,
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
>
>> Andrew:
>>
>> It would be work to verify to a very high degree, but I don't think
>> this is an overwhelming requirement to test to a reasonable degree
>> via
>>
>
>
>> automated means.
>>
>> General test logic:
>> if content has no language identifier, it fails.
>> if it has (1) language identifier, it passes unless:
>> by character, or word analysis, it can be determined that
>>
> content
>
>> contains more than the initial language identifier.
>>
>> nailing down a specific list of failures is more difficult, but spell

>> check can probably address such a requirement by including language
>> identification as part of that function. I'd expect language
>> identification would have to be part of any multi-lingual authoring
>> tool anyway at some point.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:15 AM
>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>
>> Just for the record, my objection is more to the "changes in
language"
>> section. Seems like a lot of extra work to verify this...
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Hoffman, Allen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:34 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> is there synthetic speech for Creole? Just curious!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Smith, Jamie
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:29 PM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> I definitely feel we must have this as a provision. In Florida,
>>> public information is often in Spanish and Creole as well as
English.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Some documents are the "Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test" test
>>> materials and while the document is in Spanish or Creole the test
>>> examples are always in English. The lack of coding for the language

>>> did cause speech to select a language and attempt to read the Creole

>>> with that language.
>>> >From the point of the first change to Creole on (even when text was
>>>
>>>
>>>> back
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to English), speech messed up. Adding the language code in the
>>> doctype and then to the specific sections which had a different
>>> language fixed the problem. The reason the language code wasn't
>>> done,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> simply because it wasn't required.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:32 AM
>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>
>>> In the spirit of trying to reduce the extra weight of the new
>>> standards, I'll raise my question again -- why is language support
>>> in
>>>
>
>
>>> 508? We do have other WCAG standards that we have not included, and

>>> this seems like it is not needed in the U.S. standard.
>>>
>>> What is our rationale for requiring the language support in content
>>> formats and web and software provisions?
>>>
>>> AWK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Behalf Of Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Korn
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:56 PM
>>>> To: TEITAC Web/Software Subcommittee
>>>> Subject: Re: [teitac-websoftware] 3d/3e for content format
>>>>
>>>> Hi Allen,
>>>>
>>>> We need to be careful with this one. Simple text editors (think
>>>> Notepad) won't be able to do this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Peter Korn
>>>> Accessibility Architect,
>>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Action item from Tuesday, 09/04.
>>>>>
>>>>> Content formats which support multiple languages MUST provide a
>>>>> programmatically determinable mechanism to identify the primary
>>>>> language, and the language of any sections which are in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> another language
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> from the primary language.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allen Hoffman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; v: 202-447-0303
>>>>>