Thread Subject: teitac-video Captioning Definition

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From: Jasionowski, Tony
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 8:25 AM
Subject: teitac-video Captioning Definition

AV Subcommittee,
As we discussed yesterday, since "captioning" significantly impacts our
AV subcommittee I pulled this "Captioning" definition from the Subpart A
subcommittee for our review and comments rather than draft our own
definition:

"Captioning
Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear as written
representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken dialogue, Captions
are similar to subtitles, but also convey non-dialogue auditory
information that is important to the video, such as on- and off-screen
sound effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the images
on the screen."

Tony Jasionowski
Panasonic

From: Deborah Buck
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

Tony- I took a stab at the captioning definition purely as a starting point-
thanks for sharing with your committee to vet and change. I looked at what
was on the AV groups section of the wiki as a base and went from there.
Your group also suggested that the Subpart A group include a definition for
video description. I'm including that too so your group can fix both.
Deborah

Video Description
The insertion of verbal or auditory description(s) of on-screen visuals
intended to describe important visual details that are not contained or that
cannot be understood from the main audio output alone. Audio descriptions
supplement the regular audio track of the program and are usually inserted
between dialogue narration to provide information about actions, characters,
and on-screen text that appears without verbailization. Video descriptions
are a way to let people who are blind or have low vision know what is
happening on screen.
Question: Does the definition need to distinguish between audio and video
transcription? Should the definition include the following: In these
standards the term video description is used rather than audio description.
The term audio description is reserved for verbal descriptions of live
events.



-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jasionowski,
Tony
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:12 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [teitac-subparta] teitac-video Captioning Definition

AV Subcommittee,
As we discussed yesterday, since "captioning" significantly impacts our
AV subcommittee I pulled this "Captioning" definition from the Subpart A
subcommittee for our review and comments rather than draft our own
definition:

"Captioning
Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear as written
representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken dialogue, Captions
are similar to subtitles, but also convey non-dialogue auditory
information that is important to the video, such as on- and off-screen
sound effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the images
on the screen."

Tony Jasionowski
Panasonic

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

I've added a couple of comments already, but want to add that there is
something odd about the "presented on the screen in an audio format"
phrase.

Perhaps

Captions are synchronized text equivalents for audio information.
Captions are similar to subtitles in that they convey the content of
spoken dialogue, but also include text for non-spoken information such
as important sound effects, music, laughter, and speaker identification
and location. In some countries captions are called subtitles.

AWK

> "Captioning
> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that
> is presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions
> appear as written representation of onscreen audio narration
> or spoken dialogue, Captions are similar to subtitles, but
> also convey non-dialogue auditory information that is
> important to the video, such as on- and off-screen sound
> effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the
> images on the screen."

From: Jagbell
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

We need to include that they should appear in the lower third of the
screen.


On Mar 15, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Jasionowski, Tony wrote:

> AV Subcommittee,
> As we discussed yesterday, since "captioning" significantly impacts
> our
> AV subcommittee I pulled this "Captioning" definition from the
> Subpart A
> subcommittee for our review and comments rather than draft our own
> definition:
>
> "Captioning
> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
> presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear as written
> representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken dialogue,
> Captions
> are similar to subtitles, but also convey non-dialogue auditory
> information that is important to the video, such as on- and off-screen
> sound effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the
> images
> on the screen."
>
> Tony Jasionowski
> Panasonic
>

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

Can you explain your thinking behind this? It seems that there are
times where there is important content that appears at the bottom of the
video display screen so it is important for the captions to not overlap
this content. Similarly, the important video content in the program may
require captions moving up above the bottom third in order to ensure
that the caption and the video are not conflicting with each other.

It seems that what you are concerned with (and rightly so) is caption
quality. Captions shouldn't be covering important content is one
specific requirement that might be possible to introduce somewhere in
the standards, but limiting captions to only appear in the bottom third
will result in issues for users.

AWK

> We need to include that they should appear in the lower third
> of the screen.
>
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Jasionowski, Tony wrote:
>
> > AV Subcommittee,
> > As we discussed yesterday, since "captioning" significantly impacts
> > our AV subcommittee I pulled this "Captioning" definition from the
> > Subpart A subcommittee for our review and comments rather
> than draft
> > our own
> > definition:
> >
> > "Captioning
> > Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
> > presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear
> as written
> > representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken dialogue,
> > Captions are similar to subtitles, but also convey non-dialogue
> > auditory information that is important to the video, such
> as on- and
> > off-screen sound effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized
> > with the images on the screen."
> >
> > Tony Jasionowski
> > Panasonic
> >

From: Jagbell
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

Producers need to stop thinking of the lower 1/3 as available real
estate. :) The Producers would never put "important video content"
across someone's face so nor should they captions. It is also very
hard on someone's eyes to have captions bouncing around the screen.
Also, the person who requires the captions is typically not in the
room by themselves so it also irritating to others in the room. Let
Producers move the important content around the captions. :)

Janice
Janice L. Schacter
Executive Director
Deafness Research Foundation

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On Mar 15, 2007, at 3:31 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:

> Can you explain your thinking behind this? It seems that there are
> times where there is important content that appears at the bottom
> of the
> video display screen so it is important for the captions to not
> overlap
> this content. Similarly, the important video content in the
> program may
> require captions moving up above the bottom third in order to ensure
> that the caption and the video are not conflicting with each other.
>
> It seems that what you are concerned with (and rightly so) is caption
> quality. Captions shouldn't be covering important content is one
> specific requirement that might be possible to introduce somewhere in
> the standards, but limiting captions to only appear in the bottom
> third
> will result in issues for users.
>
> AWK
>
>> We need to include that they should appear in the lower third
>> of the screen.
>>
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Jasionowski, Tony wrote:
>>
>>> AV Subcommittee,
>>> As we discussed yesterday, since "captioning" significantly impacts
>>> our AV subcommittee I pulled this "Captioning" definition from the
>>> Subpart A subcommittee for our review and comments rather
>> than draft
>>> our own
>>> definition:
>>>
>>> "Captioning
>>> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
>>> presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear
>> as written
>>> representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken dialogue,
>>> Captions are similar to subtitles, but also convey non-dialogue
>>> auditory information that is important to the video, such
>> as on- and
>>> off-screen sound effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized
>>> with the images on the screen."
>>>
>>> Tony Jasionowski
>>> Panasonic
>>>

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

This is really quite good. Sussinct and also covers applications where the
'captions' are integrated into the information displayed.


On re-read - The last sentence might draw some 'discussion'. Maybe a small
tweak:

"In some countries captions are included in the term 'subtitles'."


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of geoff freed
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:23 PM
> To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning Definition
>
>
> Or a bit more broadly defined:
>
> ======
> Captions are text displayed on screen in the same language as
> the audio, and are synchronized with the multimedia. They
> represent not only speech, but also non-speech elements such
> as sound effects or speaker identification. In some
> countries, captions are known as subtitles.
> ======
>
> Geoff
>
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> > I've added a couple of comments already, but want to add
> that there is
> > something odd about the "presented on the screen in an audio format"
> > phrase.
> >
> > Perhaps
> >
> > Captions are synchronized text equivalents for audio information.
> > Captions are similar to subtitles in that they convey the content of
> > spoken dialogue, but also include text for non-spoken
> information such
> > as important sound effects, music, laughter, and speaker
> > identification
> > and location. In some countries captions are called subtitles.
> >
> > AWK
> >
> >> "Captioning
> >> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that
> >> is presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions
> >> appear as written representation of onscreen audio narration
> >> or spoken dialogue, Captions are similar to subtitles, but
> >> also convey non-dialogue auditory information that is
> >> important to the video, such as on- and off-screen sound
> >> effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the
> >> images on the screen."
> >

From: Sean Hayes
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

I don't see why for 508 you have to talk about other countries, but if you do I prefer the previous language. Captions are not included in subtitles. We have subtitles, and we have foreign language subtitles, if we need to distinguish we may say subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing; but we never say captions.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: 15 March 2007 20:34
To: 'TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee'
Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video Captioning Definition

This is really quite good. Sussinct and also covers applications where the
'captions' are integrated into the information displayed.


On re-read - The last sentence might draw some 'discussion'. Maybe a small
tweak:

"In some countries captions are included in the term 'subtitles'."


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of geoff freed
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:23 PM
> To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning Definition
>
>
> Or a bit more broadly defined:
>
> ======
> Captions are text displayed on screen in the same language as
> the audio, and are synchronized with the multimedia. They
> represent not only speech, but also non-speech elements such
> as sound effects or speaker identification. In some
> countries, captions are known as subtitles.
> ======
>
> Geoff
>
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> > I've added a couple of comments already, but want to add
> that there is
> > something odd about the "presented on the screen in an audio format"
> > phrase.
> >
> > Perhaps
> >
> > Captions are synchronized text equivalents for audio information.
> > Captions are similar to subtitles in that they convey the content of
> > spoken dialogue, but also include text for non-spoken
> information such
> > as important sound effects, music, laughter, and speaker
> > identification
> > and location. In some countries captions are called subtitles.
> >
> > AWK
> >
> >> "Captioning
> >> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that
> >> is presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions
> >> appear as written representation of onscreen audio narration
> >> or spoken dialogue, Captions are similar to subtitles, but
> >> also convey non-dialogue auditory information that is
> >> important to the video, such as on- and off-screen sound
> >> effects, music, and laughter that are synchronized with the
> >> images on the screen."
> >

From: geoff freed
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

Good point. So we just strike the last sentence. By the way, given that
these are US regulations, *is* there any need to even mention other
countries in 508?

geoff.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Hayes
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:26 PM
> To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning Definition
>
> I don't see why for 508 you have to talk about other
> countries, but if you do I prefer the previous language.
> Captions are not included in subtitles. We have subtitles,
> and we have foreign language subtitles, if we need to
> distinguish we may say subtitles for the deaf and hard of
> hearing; but we never say captions.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Gregg Vanderheiden
> Sent: 15 March 2007 20:34
> To: 'TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning Definition
>
> This is really quite good. Sussinct and also covers
> applications where the 'captions' are integrated into the
> information displayed.
>
>
> On re-read - The last sentence might draw some 'discussion'.
> Maybe a small
> tweak:
>
> "In some countries captions are included in the term 'subtitles'."
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> geoff freed
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:23 PM
> > To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning
> > Definition
> >
> >
> > Or a bit more broadly defined:
> >
> > ======
> > Captions are text displayed on screen in the same language as the
> > audio, and are synchronized with the multimedia. They
> represent not
> > only speech, but also non-speech elements such as sound effects or
> > speaker identification. In some countries, captions are known as
> > subtitles.
> > ======
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
> >
> > > I've added a couple of comments already, but want to add
> > that there is
> > > something odd about the "presented on the screen in an
> audio format"
> > > phrase.
> > >
> > > Perhaps
> > >
> > > Captions are synchronized text equivalents for audio information.
> > > Captions are similar to subtitles in that they convey the
> content of
> > > spoken dialogue, but also include text for non-spoken
> > information such
> > > as important sound effects, music, laughter, and speaker
> > > identification and location. In some countries captions
> are called
> > > subtitles.
> > >
> > > AWK
> > >
> > >> "Captioning
> > >> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
> > >> presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear as
> > >> written representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken
> > >> dialogue, Captions are similar to subtitles, but also convey
> > >> non-dialogue auditory information that is important to
> the video,
> > >> such as on- and off-screen sound effects, music, and
> laughter that
> > >> are synchronized with the images on the screen."
> > >

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

I thoght it might be of some help to implentors who might be outside the states, and given that it is a definition it didn't seem a problem.
Awl

-----Original Message-----
From: geoff freed [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thu Mar 15 16:27:55 2007
To: 'TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee'
Subject: Re: [teitac-video][teitac-subparta] teitac-video Captioning Definition


Good point. So we just strike the last sentence. By the way, given that
these are US regulations, *is* there any need to even mention other
countries in 508?

geoff.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Hayes
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:26 PM
> To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning Definition
>
> I don't see why for 508 you have to talk about other
> countries, but if you do I prefer the previous language.
> Captions are not included in subtitles. We have subtitles,
> and we have foreign language subtitles, if we need to
> distinguish we may say subtitles for the deaf and hard of
> hearing; but we never say captions.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Gregg Vanderheiden
> Sent: 15 March 2007 20:34
> To: 'TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning Definition
>
> This is really quite good. Sussinct and also covers
> applications where the 'captions' are integrated into the
> information displayed.
>
>
> On re-read - The last sentence might draw some 'discussion'.
> Maybe a small
> tweak:
>
> "In some countries captions are included in the term 'subtitles'."
>
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> geoff freed
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:23 PM
> > To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning
> > Definition
> >
> >
> > Or a bit more broadly defined:
> >
> > ======
> > Captions are text displayed on screen in the same language as the
> > audio, and are synchronized with the multimedia. They
> represent not
> > only speech, but also non-speech elements such as sound effects or
> > speaker identification. In some countries, captions are known as
> > subtitles.
> > ======
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
> >
> > > I've added a couple of comments already, but want to add
> > that there is
> > > something odd about the "presented on the screen in an
> audio format"
> > > phrase.
> > >
> > > Perhaps
> > >
> > > Captions are synchronized text equivalents for audio information.
> > > Captions are similar to subtitles in that they convey the
> content of
> > > spoken dialogue, but also include text for non-spoken
> > information such
> > > as important sound effects, music, laughter, and speaker
> > > identification and location. In some countries captions
> are called
> > > subtitles.
> > >
> > > AWK
> > >
> > >> "Captioning
> > >> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of information that is
> > >> presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear as
> > >> written representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken
> > >> dialogue, Captions are similar to subtitles, but also convey
> > >> non-dialogue auditory information that is important to
> the video,
> > >> such as on- and off-screen sound effects, music, and
> laughter that
> > >> are synchronized with the images on the screen."
> > >

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Thu, Mar 15 2007 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: teitac-video Captioning Definition

Previous language is fine.

But since we are trying for international harmonization and including other
countries, it might be a good idea to include. Then when they do theirs
they might say "in some countries these are called 'captions'" making it
easier for others to see that things are harmonized where they are.




Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of geoff freed
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:28 PM
> To: 'TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee'
> Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning Definition
>
>
> Good point. So we just strike the last sentence. By the
> way, given that these are US regulations, *is* there any need
> to even mention other countries in 508?
>
> geoff.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Sean Hayes
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:26 PM
> > To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning
> > Definition
> >
> > I don't see why for 508 you have to talk about other
> countries, but if
> > you do I prefer the previous language.
> > Captions are not included in subtitles. We have subtitles,
> and we have
> > foreign language subtitles, if we need to distinguish we may say
> > subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing; but we never
> say captions.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gregg
> > Vanderheiden
> > Sent: 15 March 2007 20:34
> > To: 'TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee'
> > Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> Captioning
> > Definition
> >
> > This is really quite good. Sussinct and also covers
> applications where
> > the 'captions' are integrated into the information displayed.
> >
> >
> > On re-read - The last sentence might draw some 'discussion'.
> > Maybe a small
> > tweak:
> >
> > "In some countries captions are included in the term 'subtitles'."
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> > -- ------------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> > geoff freed
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:23 PM
> > > To: TEITAC Audio/Video Subcommittee
> > > Subject: Re: [teitac-video] [teitac-subparta] teitac-video
> > Captioning
> > > Definition
> > >
> > >
> > > Or a bit more broadly defined:
> > >
> > > ======
> > > Captions are text displayed on screen in the same language as the
> > > audio, and are synchronized with the multimedia. They
> > represent not
> > > only speech, but also non-speech elements such as sound
> effects or
> > > speaker identification. In some countries, captions are known as
> > > subtitles.
> > > ======
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 15, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've added a couple of comments already, but want to add
> > > that there is
> > > > something odd about the "presented on the screen in an
> > audio format"
> > > > phrase.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps
> > > >
> > > > Captions are synchronized text equivalents for audio
> information.
> > > > Captions are similar to subtitles in that they convey the
> > content of
> > > > spoken dialogue, but also include text for non-spoken
> > > information such
> > > > as important sound effects, music, laughter, and speaker
> > > > identification and location. In some countries captions
> > are called
> > > > subtitles.
> > > >
> > > > AWK
> > > >
> > > >> "Captioning
> > > >> Captions are synchronized text display(s) of
> information that is
> > > >> presented on the screen in an audio format. Captions appear as
> > > >> written representation of onscreen audio narration or spoken
> > > >> dialogue, Captions are similar to subtitles, but also convey
> > > >> non-dialogue auditory information that is important to
> > the video,
> > > >> such as on- and off-screen sound effects, music, and
> > laughter that
> > > >> are synchronized with the images on the screen."
> > > >