Thread Subject: One we missed

Return to this mailing list's archives

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2007 10:15 AM
Subject: One we missed

I was asked by Randy to post something on this to the list to open up
discussion.







The first half of - S 1194.25 (e) deals with hardware issues (including an
audio jack on product with audio output)



508 - S 1194.25 (e) When products provide auditory output, the audio signal
shall be provided at a standard signal level through an industry standard
connector that will allow for private listening. The product must provide
the ability to interrupt, pause, and restart the audio at anytime.



This was in closed product issue - but should it apply to computers and
other non-closed products too? Seems like it is not tied to closed part.




But we don't want to just have anything with audio output have a headphone
jack. A printer that beeps for example would not normally need a headphone
jack (though it could be handy for connecting a flasher - this could be done
by network for a network printer and isn't probably anything important
enough that a small visual led couldn't meet. )



Maybe something like this (which restricts it to speech output devices).



Xxxxx When products provide speech output, the audio signal shall be
provided at a standard signal level through an industry standard connector
that will allow for private listening.





(this also would address the JIS )





Just starting the discussion




Gregg

------------------------

Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison
< <http://trace.wisc.edu/> http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848

DSS Player at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b

If Attachement is a mail.dat try <http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/>
http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/

<http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>

From: James Elekes
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2007 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: One we missed

Greg,

As a totally blind individual, it is critical for
me to have an audio jack whenever there is audio
output. If not available, everyone hears what I'm
listening to. I agree printers and similar
technology does not need this "access port" as
the sound given off should be sufficient to cover
an acknowledgement to an individual such as
myself and, individuals with hearing impairments
will have the ability of the visual.

I have but one concern, technology getting so
small that an audio jack is not possible, e.g. my
cell phone doesn't have one and, I use a speech
program to read Text Messages and maneuver
through the menue/prompts. Is it realistic to
require a wireless connect to an earpiece from
such devices? Regretfully, I'm not sufficiently
versed to provide adequate comment on the lattter.

Thanks,

Jim

James J. Elekes, Chairperson
Ad Hoc Committee-Technologies
United States Access Board

888.564.8430 (Direct Voice/Fax)*

*TTY/VRS Users are encouraged to contact their
State's Relay Center by dialing 711 or, the
Federal Relay Service (FRS) for this assistance.


At 11:12 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
>I was asked by Randy to post something on this
>to the list to open up discussion.
>
>
>
>The first half of - S 1194.25 (e) deals with
>hardware issues (including an audio jack on product with audio output)
>
>508 - S 1194.25 (e) When products provide
>auditory output, the audio signal shall be
>provided at a standard signal level through an
>industry standard connector that will allow for
>private listening. The product must provide the
>ability to interrupt, pause, and restart the audio at anytime.
>
>This was in closed product issue ? but should it
>apply to computers and other non-closed products
>too? Seems like it is not tied to closed part.
>
>But we don't want to just have anything with
>audio output have a headphone jack. A printer
>that beeps for example would not normally need a
>headphone jack (though it could be handy for
>connecting a flasher ? this could be done by
>network for a network printer and isn't probably
>anything important enough that a small visual led couldn?t meet. )
>
>Maybe something like this (which restricts it to speech output devices).
>
>Xxxxx When products provide speech output, the
>audio signal shall be provided at a standard
>signal level through an industry standard
>connector that will allow for private listening.
>
>
>(this also would address the JIS )
>
>
>Just starting the discussion
>
>
>Gregg
>
>------------------------
>Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
>Director - Trace R & D Center
>University of Wisconsin-Madison
><<http://trace.wisc.edu/>http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848
>DSS Player at <http://tinyurl.com/dho6b>http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
>If Attachement is a mail.dat try
><http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/>http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/
>
><http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
>
>
>

From: David Poehlman
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: One we missed

it surprises me to find a cell phone with no ability to port the audio
output.

On Apr 27, 2007, at 2:51 PM, James Elekes wrote:

Greg,

As a totally blind individual, it is critical for
me to have an audio jack whenever there is audio
output. If not available, everyone hears what I'm
listening to. I agree printers and similar
technology does not need this "access port" as
the sound given off should be sufficient to cover
an acknowledgement to an individual such as
myself and, individuals with hearing impairments
will have the ability of the visual.

I have but one concern, technology getting so
small that an audio jack is not possible, e.g. my
cell phone doesn't have one and, I use a speech
program to read Text Messages and maneuver
through the menue/prompts. Is it realistic to
require a wireless connect to an earpiece from
such devices? Regretfully, I'm not sufficiently
versed to provide adequate comment on the lattter.

Thanks,

Jim

James J. Elekes, Chairperson
Ad Hoc Committee-Technologies
United States Access Board

888.564.8430 (Direct Voice/Fax)*

*TTY/VRS Users are encouraged to contact their
State's Relay Center by dialing 711 or, the
Federal Relay Service (FRS) for this assistance.


At 11:12 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
> I was asked by Randy to post something on this
> to the list to open up discussion.
>
>
>
> The first half of - S 1194.25 (e) deals with
> hardware issues (including an audio jack on product with audio output)
>
> 508 - S 1194.25 (e) When products provide
> auditory output, the audio signal shall be
> provided at a standard signal level through an
> industry standard connector that will allow for
> private listening. The product must provide the
> ability to interrupt, pause, and restart the audio at anytime.
>
> This was in closed product issue – but should it
> apply to computers and other non-closed products
> too? Seems like it is not tied to closed part.
>
> But we don't want to just have anything with
> audio output have a headphone jack. A printer
> that beeps for example would not normally need a
> headphone jack (though it could be handy for
> connecting a flasher – this could be done by
> network for a network printer and isn't probably
> anything important enough that a small visual led couldn’t meet. )
>
> Maybe something like this (which restricts it to speech output
> devices).
>
> Xxxxx When products provide speech output, the
> audio signal shall be provided at a standard
> signal level through an industry standard
> connector that will allow for private listening.
>
>
> (this also would address the JIS )
>
>
> Just starting the discussion
>
>
> Gregg
>
> ------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> Director - Trace R & D Center
> University of Wisconsin-Madison
> <<http://trace.wisc.edu/>http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848
> DSS Player at <http://tinyurl.com/dho6b>http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
> If Attachement is a mail.dat try
> <http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/>http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/
>
> <http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
>
>
>

From: James Elekes
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2007 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: One we missed

Maybe I shouldn't mention my cell. It was a gift
to me because of its tactile keys. The individual
providing it to me is a longtime friend and, the
model was his companies first attempt to develop
a more user friendly cell for individuals who are
totally blind. The shortcoming was the first
item I noticed. When our test were complete, I
was so comfortable with the usability, I was
given the cell in appreciation for my work. I
have a cell with an ear jack but, the prototype
is just more user friendly. I carry both when I know I'll need an ear piece.

JJE

At 01:57 PM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
>it surprises me to find a cell phone with no ability to port the audio
>output.
>
>On Apr 27, 2007, at 2:51 PM, James Elekes wrote:
>
>Greg,
>
>As a totally blind individual, it is critical for
>me to have an audio jack whenever there is audio
>output. If not available, everyone hears what I'm
>listening to. I agree printers and similar
>technology does not need this "access port" as
>the sound given off should be sufficient to cover
>an acknowledgement to an individual such as
>myself and, individuals with hearing impairments
>will have the ability of the visual.
>
>I have but one concern, technology getting so
>small that an audio jack is not possible, e.g. my
>cell phone doesn't have one and, I use a speech
>program to read Text Messages and maneuver
>through the menue/prompts. Is it realistic to
>require a wireless connect to an earpiece from
>such devices? Regretfully, I'm not sufficiently
>versed to provide adequate comment on the lattter.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jim
>
>James J. Elekes, Chairperson
>Ad Hoc Committee-Technologies
>United States Access Board
>
>888.564.8430 (Direct Voice/Fax)*
>
>*TTY/VRS Users are encouraged to contact their
>State's Relay Center by dialing 711 or, the
>Federal Relay Service (FRS) for this assistance.
>
>
>At 11:12 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
> > I was asked by Randy to post something on this
> > to the list to open up discussion.
> >
> >
> >
> > The first half of - S 1194.25 (e) deals with
> > hardware issues (including an audio jack on product with audio output)
> >
> > 508 - S 1194.25 (e) When products provide
> > auditory output, the audio signal shall be
> > provided at a standard signal level through an
> > industry standard connector that will allow for
> > private listening. The product must provide the
> > ability to interrupt, pause, and restart the audio at anytime.
> >
> > This was in closed product issue ­ but should it
> > apply to computers and other non-closed products
> > too? Seems like it is not tied to closed part.
> >
> > But we don't want to just have anything with
> > audio output have a headphone jack. A printer
> > that beeps for example would not normally need a
> > headphone jack (though it could be handy for
> > connecting a flasher ­ this could be done by
> > network for a network printer and isn't probably
> > anything important enough that a small visual led couldn?t meet. )
> >
> > Maybe something like this (which restricts it to speech output
> > devices).
> >
> > Xxxxx When products provide speech output, the
> > audio signal shall be provided at a standard
> > signal level through an industry standard
> > connector that will allow for private listening.
> >
> >
> > (this also would address the JIS )
> >
> >
> > Just starting the discussion
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > ------------------------
> > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> > Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> > Director - Trace R & D Center
> > University of Wisconsin-Madison
> > <<http://trace.wisc.edu/>http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848
> > DSS Player at <http://tinyurl.com/dho6b>http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
> > If Attachement is a mail.dat try
> > <http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/>http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/
> >
> > <http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
> >
> >
> >

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2007 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: One we missed

I have seen headphone jacks on the smallest of phones.

You have a cell phone that you can't connect a headset to?
Can you tell me the make and model?

But I agree that in the future we MAY have phones that are the size of "star
trek" badges. So I think maybe we need to think about "phone jack or
standard wireless headset". But we need to think carefully about that.
people with hearing aids or even hearing disabilities can be expected to
carry around all the standard connection mechanisms.

Sooooo, maybe

- for public systems you need a standard headphone or headset connector
(they could carry an adapter along with their loop or headset)

- for personal systems it just needs to be an audio connection (wired or
wireless) that has an adapter to standard phone jack.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> James Elekes
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:51 PM
> To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] One we missed
>
> Greg,
>
> As a totally blind individual, it is critical for me to have
> an audio jack whenever there is audio output. If not
> available, everyone hears what I'm listening to. I agree
> printers and similar technology does not need this "access
> port" as the sound given off should be sufficient to cover an
> acknowledgement to an individual such as myself and,
> individuals with hearing impairments will have the ability of
> the visual.
>
> I have but one concern, technology getting so small that an
> audio jack is not possible, e.g. my cell phone doesn't have
> one and, I use a speech program to read Text Messages and
> maneuver through the menue/prompts. Is it realistic to
> require a wireless connect to an earpiece from such devices?
> Regretfully, I'm not sufficiently versed to provide adequate
> comment on the lattter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
> James J. Elekes, Chairperson
> Ad Hoc Committee-Technologies
> United States Access Board
>
> 888.564.8430 (Direct Voice/Fax)*
>
> *TTY/VRS Users are encouraged to contact their State's Relay
> Center by dialing 711 or, the Federal Relay Service (FRS) for
> this assistance.
>
>
> At 11:12 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
> >I was asked by Randy to post something on this to the list
> to open up
> >discussion.
> >
> >
> >
> >The first half of - S 1194.25 (e) deals with hardware issues
> (including
> >an audio jack on product with audio output)
> >
> >508 - S 1194.25 (e) When products provide auditory output,
> the audio
> >signal shall be provided at a standard signal level through
> an industry
> >standard connector that will allow for private listening.
> The product
> >must provide the ability to interrupt, pause, and restart
> the audio at
> >anytime.
> >
> >This was in closed product issue - but should it apply to
> computers and
> >other non-closed products too? Seems like it is not tied to closed
> >part.
> >
> >But we don't want to just have anything with audio output have a
> >headphone jack. A printer that beeps for example would not normally
> >need a headphone jack (though it could be handy for connecting a
> >flasher - this could be done by network for a network
> printer and isn't
> >probably anything important enough that a small visual led couldn't
> >meet. )
> >
> >Maybe something like this (which restricts it to speech
> output devices).
> >
> >Xxxxx When products provide speech output, the
> >audio signal shall be provided at a standard signal level through an
> >industry standard connector that will allow for private listening.
> >
> >
> >(this also would address the JIS )
> >
> >
> >Just starting the discussion
> >
> >
> >Gregg
> >
> >------------------------
> >Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> >Director - Trace R & D Center
> >University of Wisconsin-Madison
> ><<http://trace.wisc.edu/>http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848
> >DSS Player at <http://tinyurl.com/dho6b>http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
> >If Attachement is a mail.dat try
> ><http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/>http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/
> >
> ><http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
> >
> >
> >

From: terry.weaver@gsa.gov
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: One we missed

My cell phone doesn't have a phone jack - it is Bluetooth enabled and they
expect me to use a wireless earpiece (which works fine on my end but is
universally hated by everyone I call). It is a Motorola Razr

What are the 508 implications of Bluetooth devices?






"Gregg Vanderheiden" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent by: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
04/27/2007 03:11 PM
Please respond to
"TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >


To
"'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee'"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
cc

Subject
Re: [teitac-hardware] One we missed






I have seen headphone jacks on the smallest of phones.

You have a cell phone that you can't connect a headset to?
Can you tell me the make and model?

But I agree that in the future we MAY have phones that are the size of
"star
trek" badges. So I think maybe we need to think about "phone jack or
standard wireless headset". But we need to think carefully about that.
people with hearing aids or even hearing disabilities can be expected to
carry around all the standard connection mechanisms.

Sooooo, maybe

- for public systems you need a standard headphone or headset connector
(they could carry an adapter along with their loop or headset)

- for personal systems it just needs to be an audio connection (wired or
wireless) that has an adapter to standard phone jack.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> James Elekes
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:51 PM
> To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] One we missed
>
> Greg,
>
> As a totally blind individual, it is critical for me to have
> an audio jack whenever there is audio output. If not
> available, everyone hears what I'm listening to. I agree
> printers and similar technology does not need this "access
> port" as the sound given off should be sufficient to cover an
> acknowledgement to an individual such as myself and,
> individuals with hearing impairments will have the ability of
> the visual.
>
> I have but one concern, technology getting so small that an
> audio jack is not possible, e.g. my cell phone doesn't have
> one and, I use a speech program to read Text Messages and
> maneuver through the menue/prompts. Is it realistic to
> require a wireless connect to an earpiece from such devices?
> Regretfully, I'm not sufficiently versed to provide adequate
> comment on the lattter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
> James J. Elekes, Chairperson
> Ad Hoc Committee-Technologies
> United States Access Board
>
> 888.564.8430 (Direct Voice/Fax)*
>
> *TTY/VRS Users are encouraged to contact their State's Relay
> Center by dialing 711 or, the Federal Relay Service (FRS) for
> this assistance.
>
>
> At 11:12 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
> >I was asked by Randy to post something on this to the list
> to open up
> >discussion.
> >
> >
> >
> >The first half of - S 1194.25 (e) deals with hardware issues
> (including
> >an audio jack on product with audio output)
> >
> >508 - S 1194.25 (e) When products provide auditory output,
> the audio
> >signal shall be provided at a standard signal level through
> an industry
> >standard connector that will allow for private listening.
> The product
> >must provide the ability to interrupt, pause, and restart
> the audio at
> >anytime.
> >
> >This was in closed product issue - but should it apply to
> computers and
> >other non-closed products too? Seems like it is not tied to closed
> >part.
> >
> >But we don't want to just have anything with audio output have a
> >headphone jack. A printer that beeps for example would not normally
> >need a headphone jack (though it could be handy for connecting a
> >flasher - this could be done by network for a network
> printer and isn't
> >probably anything important enough that a small visual led couldn't
> >meet. )
> >
> >Maybe something like this (which restricts it to speech
> output devices).
> >
> >Xxxxx When products provide speech output, the
> >audio signal shall be provided at a standard signal level through an
> >industry standard connector that will allow for private listening.
> >
> >
> >(this also would address the JIS )
> >
> >
> >Just starting the discussion
> >
> >
> >Gregg
> >
> >------------------------
> >Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> >Director - Trace R & D Center
> >University of Wisconsin-Madison
> ><<http://trace.wisc.edu/>http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848
> >DSS Player at <http://tinyurl.com/dho6b>http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
> >If Attachement is a mail.dat try
> ><http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/>http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/
> >
> ><http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
> >
> >
> >

From: Gregg Vanderheiden
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: One we missed

This is what I was getting at with regard to "future proofing"



I think there are Bluetooth to standard headphone jack adapters.



So Bluetooth would work for cell phones - but not for kiosks. (they COULD
do Bluetooth but they should also have headphone jacks).



At least that is the thought below.




Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.






_____


From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:46 PM
To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
Cc: 'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee';
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] One we missed


My cell phone doesn't have a phone jack - it is Bluetooth enabled and they
expect me to use a wireless earpiece (which works fine on my end but is
universally hated by everyone I call). It is a Motorola Razr

What are the 508 implications of Bluetooth devices?







"Gregg Vanderheiden" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent by: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

04/27/2007 03:11 PM


Please respond to
"TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >


To

"'TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee'"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >


cc




Subject

Re: [teitac-hardware] One we missed











I have seen headphone jacks on the smallest of phones.

You have a cell phone that you can't connect a headset to?
Can you tell me the make and model?

But I agree that in the future we MAY have phones that are the size of "star
trek" badges. So I think maybe we need to think about "phone jack or
standard wireless headset". But we need to think carefully about that.
people with hearing aids or even hearing disabilities can be expected to
carry around all the standard connection mechanisms.

Sooooo, maybe

- for public systems you need a standard headphone or headset connector
(they could carry an adapter along with their loop or headset)

- for personal systems it just needs to be an audio connection (wired or
wireless) that has an adapter to standard phone jack.


Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> James Elekes
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:51 PM
> To: TEITAC desktop/portable (hardware) subcommittee
> Subject: Re: [teitac-hardware] One we missed
>
> Greg,
>
> As a totally blind individual, it is critical for me to have
> an audio jack whenever there is audio output. If not
> available, everyone hears what I'm listening to. I agree
> printers and similar technology does not need this "access
> port" as the sound given off should be sufficient to cover an
> acknowledgement to an individual such as myself and,
> individuals with hearing impairments will have the ability of
> the visual.
>
> I have but one concern, technology getting so small that an
> audio jack is not possible, e.g. my cell phone doesn't have
> one and, I use a speech program to read Text Messages and
> maneuver through the menue/prompts. Is it realistic to
> require a wireless connect to an earpiece from such devices?
> Regretfully, I'm not sufficiently versed to provide adequate
> comment on the lattter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
> James J. Elekes, Chairperson
> Ad Hoc Committee-Technologies
> United States Access Board
>
> 888.564.8430 (Direct Voice/Fax)*
>
> *TTY/VRS Users are encouraged to contact their State's Relay
> Center by dialing 711 or, the Federal Relay Service (FRS) for
> this assistance.
>
>
> At 11:12 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
> >I was asked by Randy to post something on this to the list
> to open up
> >discussion.
> >
> >
> >
> >The first half of - S 1194.25 (e) deals with hardware issues
> (including
> >an audio jack on product with audio output)
> >
> >508 - S 1194.25 (e) When products provide auditory output,
> the audio
> >signal shall be provided at a standard signal level through
> an industry
> >standard connector that will allow for private listening.
> The product
> >must provide the ability to interrupt, pause, and restart
> the audio at
> >anytime.
> >
> >This was in closed product issue - but should it apply to
> computers and
> >other non-closed products too? Seems like it is not tied to closed
> >part.
> >
> >But we don't want to just have anything with audio output have a
> >headphone jack. A printer that beeps for example would not normally
> >need a headphone jack (though it could be handy for connecting a
> >flasher - this could be done by network for a network
> printer and isn't
> >probably anything important enough that a small visual led couldn't
> >meet. )
> >
> >Maybe something like this (which restricts it to speech
> output devices).
> >
> >Xxxxx When products provide speech output, the
> >audio signal shall be provided at a standard signal level through an
> >industry standard connector that will allow for private listening.
> >
> >
> >(this also would address the JIS )
> >
> >
> >Just starting the discussion
> >
> >
> >Gregg
> >
> >------------------------
> >Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> >Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> >Director - Trace R & D Center
> >University of Wisconsin-Madison
> ><<http://trace.wisc.edu/>http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848
> >DSS Player at <http://tinyurl.com/dho6b>http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
> >If Attachement is a mail.dat try
> ><http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/>http://www.kopf.com.br/winmail/
> >
> ><http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
> >
> >
> >