Note

This archival content is maintained by WebAIM and NCDAE on behalf of TEITAC and the U.S. Access Board . Additional and up-to-date details on the updates to section 508 and section 255 can be found at the Access Board web site.

Monday 10-15-2007 General telecon

Contents

Minutes for Monday 10-15-2007 General telecon

.

  • Michael Takemura (ITI & HP);
  • Tom Albin, (Auburn Engineers);
  • GreggVan (Trace);
  • Deb: (ADA & IT Centers)
  • Jim Elekes (Access Board);
  • Shannon Rapuano - (IBM);
  • Michele Budris, (Sun Microsystems);
  • Phill Jenkins, (IBM);
  • terry weaver; (GSA)
  • tom brett;
  • Laura; (Microsoft)


Names from TOHRU. This list is not necessarily all who were on the call.

AGENDA

  1. Confirm minutes of Last meeting Monday 10-1-2007 General telecon
    • ACTION: ACCEPTED
  2. Confirm this Agenda
  3. IS AT REQUIRED? WHAT IF AT DOESNT WORK WITH IT? HOW TO DEAL WITH TESTABILITY IF AT IS INVOLVED?
  4. No Ability to Reach or Touch Product

Resolutions from Meeting.

RESOLVED: To submit the following to the full committee for consideration

  1. [E&IT] Must work with some example(s) for each type of AT sufficient to meet the FPC and the technical provisions. The AT that E&IT must work with is to be determined by those implementing the standard (e.g. Federal Agencies). The AT that the product must work with is likely to be different within agencies than it is with the general public.
  2. "Work with AT" means that all information and functionality of product is accessible but not necessarily all user interface components (e.g. if a function can be achieved through another comparable user interface component that would pass. Tool bar functions might be available via menu for example ).
  3. If a product works with AT except for particular aspects, the vendor can report "Works except for the following function(s):"
  4. If a product worked with AT and then stopped because of changes in AT - the vendor could report "Works with Version X of YYY on platform ZZZ as of Date". If the vendor knows that some particular thing no longer works after working with AT vendor they could report it as a missing feature or stand with dated statement.

RESOLVED: Suggestion to ATIA to publish list of tools (and develop them if and as possible) that can be used to test for compatibility with whole classes of AT.


Notes from meeting

Table of Issues Regarding Assistive Technology and 508 Provisions

NOTES from discussion

  1. Does 508 apply to AT ?
    • If AT provides E&IT functions (e.g., AT is a software application such as a special talking word processor ) then the 508 technical standards would apply.
    • If AT is just an adaptation [e.g., a screen reader] then AT isn't E&IT itself and 508 standards do not apply.
  • Even if we expose with an API it doesn't say 'accessible to whom with what'? It is about evaluating the whole stack from the agency point of view. The question is will it all work for the person with a disability when delivered and set up.

QUESTIONS from discussion

  1. Should 508 standard or its preamble make any statement about which or how many AT?
  2. Should a product fail FPC(s) and/or technical standard(s) if some features don't work with some AT?
    • what if most but not all features work -- bug in AT prevents the rest?
    • what if it worked fully and then AT changed (bug fix or new version) and no longer works?
    • what if it works with one AT and not another?
  3. Should a product 'pass' 508 FPC(s) and/or technical standard(s) if product would work with AT only if AT was customized?
    • where info is not available at ALL (i.e., fails technical standard(s)and/or FPC ) without customization?
    • where customization is needed to work efficiently?

Table of Issues RE AT

Position 1 Position 2 Position 3
Don't need to work with actual AT to pass 508 even if access not built in (i.e., not directly accessible). If access not built in - then must work with actual AT - but not all (and need to address times when products work with one version or one day and not the next). If access not built in - then must work with all AT that users have or can afford
  • current 508 doesn't require AT only support.
  • a company shouldn't be disadvantaged if AT vendors don't support the company's product(s).
  • problems with AT vendors who don't have bandwidth to make AT work with vendors products at all.
  • technical provisions don't put requirements on AT to work with IT - so how do you guarantee that IT CAN work with (all) AT or AT that doesn't use accessibility services properly.
  • if the vendor can demonstrate via a tool that they expose information then that should be sufficient even if AT not available that uses the information.
  • current 508 does require product to work with AT. 'or support for' does mean 'works with actual AT'.
  • if it doesn't work with actual AT then actual employees can't use the product.
  • not realistic to work with all AT.
  • real problem for vendors when product works but then AT changes or has bug and doesn't work completely any longer.
  • technical provisions don't put requirements on AT to work with IT - so how do you guarantee that IT CAN work with (all or any) AT or AT that doesn't use accessibility services provided by product properly?
  • current 508 does require product to work with AT. 'or support for AT' means 'works with actual AT'.
  • if product doesn't work with employee's (or public's) AT then they can't use the product.

Proposed Solution

  1. Must work with some example(s) for each type of AT sufficient to meet the FPC and the technical provisions. The AT that E&IT must work with is to be determined by those implementing the standard (e.g. Federal Agencies). The AT that the product must work with is likely to be different within agencies than it is with the general public.
  2. "Work with AT" means that all information and functionality of product is accessible but not necessarily all user interface components (e.g. if a function can be achieved through another comparable user interface component that would pass. Tool bar functions might be available via menu for example ).
  3. If a product works with AT except for particular aspects the vendor can report "Works except for the following function(s):"
  4. If a product worked with AT and then stopped because of changes in AT - the vendor could report "Works with Version X of YYY on platform ZZZ as of Date". If the vendor knows that some particular thing no longer works after working with AT vendor they could report it as a missing feature or stand with dated statement.


  • Suggestion to ATIA to publish list of tools (and develop them if and as possible) that can be used to test for compatibility with whole classes of AT.


ACTION : Resolved to send this proposed solution up to TEITAC for consideration

WebAIM is an initiative of:
Center for Persons with Disabilities (CPD) Utah State University