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Thread: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.

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Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: Laurence Lewis
Date: Sat, Mar 19 2022 3:16PM
Subject: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.
No previous message | Next message →

A decision was made in our Workplace in regard to error management for a
radio button group. If the group has an error, focus is moved to the
<legend> and the error message is located inside the legend element
Example: Radio button group - error message location
<https://codepen.io/Deafinitive/pen/RwjRReZ/30b2263b00edadb55840bfee19d76f9b>
.


When focus is moved to the legend element, is a visible focus indicator
needed, and why? If there is no visible focus indicator is this a failure
for 2.4.7 Focus Visible Level AA?


Regards

Laurence Lewis

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sat, Mar 19 2022 4:28PM
Subject: Re: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi

No, it's not a 2.4.7 fail, because the element the focus is moved to
is not operable (you can't click the legend to do anything).
Same as with skip links. Focus is typically placed on the container
for the main content of the page, not on the first focusable element
inside that container.

Personally I'd connect the error message to the radio button group
element using aria-describedby and place focus on the first radio
button in the group, but that's just a preference (aria-describedby on
grouping elements has pretty good support across browsers/screen
readers).


On 3/19/22, Laurence Lewis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> A decision was made in our Workplace in regard to error management for a
> radio button group. If the group has an error, focus is moved to the
> <legend> and the error message is located inside the legend element
> Example: Radio button group - error message location
> <https://codepen.io/Deafinitive/pen/RwjRReZ/30b2263b00edadb55840bfee19d76f9b>
> .
>
>
> When focus is moved to the legend element, is a visible focus indicator
> needed, and why? If there is no visible focus indicator is this a failure
> for 2.4.7 Focus Visible Level AA?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Laurence Lewis
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sun, Mar 20 2022 3:47AM
Subject: Re: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.
← Previous message | Next message →

Lengthy back-and-forth discussion on whether focus being
programmatically moved to a static location needs to have a visible
focus indication or not https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1001

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: David Farough
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2022 1:15PM
Subject: Re: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.
← Previous message | Next message →

I think that Birkir's solution might work better and avoid this issue.
I noticed when using Jaws with the codepen, that Jaws also indicated the not checked attribute for the radiobutton.
This could cause the user to try to activate the button even though it did not have focus.
I should also mention that NVDA did not do this.
Another difference to note on Jaws and NVDA.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 6:29 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.

Hi

No, it's not a 2.4.7 fail, because the element the focus is moved to
is not operable (you can't click the legend to do anything).
Same as with skip links. Focus is typically placed on the container
for the main content of the page, not on the first focusable element
inside that container.

Personally I'd connect the error message to the radio button group
element using aria-describedby and place focus on the first radio
button in the group, but that's just a preference (aria-describedby on
grouping elements has pretty good support across browsers/screen
readers).


On 3/19/22, Laurence Lewis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> A decision was made in our Workplace in regard to error management for a
> radio button group. If the group has an error, focus is moved to the
> <legend> and the error message is located inside the legend element
> Example: Radio button group - error message location
> <https://codepen.io/Deafinitive/pen/RwjRReZ/30b2263b00edadb55840bfee19d76f9b>
> .
>
>
> When focus is moved to the legend element, is a visible focus indicator
> needed, and why? If there is no visible focus indicator is this a failure
> for 2.4.7 Focus Visible Level AA?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Laurence Lewis
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: David Farough
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2022 1:49PM
Subject: Re: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.
← Previous message | Next message →

I noticed a couple of other things.
For Jaws (current version) the previously mentioned behaviour occurred using Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge.
Jaws did not do this when using Firefox.
I noticed also, that when using NVDA with firefox, that when tabbing, I got to each of the unselected radiobuttons in the fieldset.
This also occurred using Jaws.
For Chrome and Edge, I went from the first of the radiobuttons directly to the submit button.
NVDA did not speak the unchecked status when focussed on the legend in any of the browsers used..
David

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of David Farough
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 3:15 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.

I think that Birkir's solution might work better and avoid this issue.
I noticed when using Jaws with the codepen, that Jaws also indicated the not checked attribute for the radiobutton.
This could cause the user to try to activate the button even though it did not have focus.
I should also mention that NVDA did not do this.
Another difference to note on Jaws and NVDA.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 6:29 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.

Hi

No, it's not a 2.4.7 fail, because the element the focus is moved to
is not operable (you can't click the legend to do anything).
Same as with skip links. Focus is typically placed on the container
for the main content of the page, not on the first focusable element
inside that container.

Personally I'd connect the error message to the radio button group
element using aria-describedby and place focus on the first radio
button in the group, but that's just a preference (aria-describedby on
grouping elements has pretty good support across browsers/screen
readers).


On 3/19/22, Laurence Lewis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> A decision was made in our Workplace in regard to error management for a
> radio button group. If the group has an error, focus is moved to the
> <legend> and the error message is located inside the legend element
> Example: Radio button group - error message location
> <https://codepen.io/Deafinitive/pen/RwjRReZ/30b2263b00edadb55840bfee19d76f9b>
> .
>
>
> When focus is moved to the legend element, is a visible focus indicator
> needed, and why? If there is no visible focus indicator is this a failure
> for 2.4.7 Focus Visible Level AA?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Laurence Lewis
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Laurence Lewis
Date: Tue, Mar 22 2022 3:04PM
Subject: Re: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible focus indicator.
← Previous message | No next message

Thanks for the feedback on radiology button error management. I will make
sure to pass this on.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 at 1:55 pm, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible
> focus indicator. (David Farough)
> 2. Re: Sending focus in a radio button group on error - visible
> focus indicator. (David Farough)
> 3. DOJ issues web accessibility guidance ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
> 4. Re: DOJ issues web accessibility guidance (David Engebretson Jr.)
> 5. Re: Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement? (Kevin Prince)
> 6. Re: Links that open new windows and/or go off site (Kevin Prince)
> 7. Re: Links that open new windows and/or go off site (Kevin Prince)
> 8. Re: Links that open new windows and/or go off site (Kevin Prince)
> 9. Re: Links that open new windows and/or go off site (glen walker)
> 10. Re: Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement? (glen walker)
> 11. Re: Links that open new windows and/or go off site (Kevin Prince)
> 12. Re: Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement? (Kevin Prince)
> 13. Re: Links that open new windows and/or go off site (Steve Green)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 19:15:14 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error -
> visible focus indicator.
> I think that Birkir's solution might work better and avoid this issue.
> I noticed when using Jaws with the codepen, that Jaws also indicated the
> not checked attribute for the radiobutton.
> This could cause the user to try to activate the button even though it did
> not have focus.
> I should also mention that NVDA did not do this.
> Another difference to note on Jaws and NVDA.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 6:29 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error -
> visible focus indicator.
>
> Hi
>
> No, it's not a 2.4.7 fail, because the element the focus is moved to
> is not operable (you can't click the legend to do anything).
> Same as with skip links. Focus is typically placed on the container
> for the main content of the page, not on the first focusable element
> inside that container.
>
> Personally I'd connect the error message to the radio button group
> element using aria-describedby and place focus on the first radio
> button in the group, but that's just a preference (aria-describedby on
> grouping elements has pretty good support across browsers/screen
> readers).
>
>
> On 3/19/22, Laurence Lewis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > A decision was made in our Workplace in regard to error management for a
> > radio button group. If the group has an error, focus is moved to the
> > <legend> and the error message is located inside the legend element
> > Example: Radio button group - error message location
> > <
> https://codepen.io/Deafinitive/pen/RwjRReZ/30b2263b00edadb55840bfee19d76f9b
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > When focus is moved to the legend element, is a visible focus indicator
> > needed, and why? If there is no visible focus indicator is this a failure
> > for 2.4.7 Focus Visible Level AA?
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Laurence Lewis
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 19:49:24 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error -
> visible focus indicator.
> I noticed a couple of other things.
> For Jaws (current version) the previously mentioned behaviour occurred
> using Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge.
> Jaws did not do this when using Firefox.
> I noticed also, that when using NVDA with firefox, that when tabbing, I
> got to each of the unselected radiobuttons in the fieldset.
> This also occurred using Jaws.
> For Chrome and Edge, I went from the first of the radiobuttons directly to
> the submit button.
> NVDA did not speak the unchecked status when focussed on the legend in any
> of the browsers used..
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> David Farough
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 3:15 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error -
> visible focus indicator.
>
> I think that Birkir's solution might work better and avoid this issue.
> I noticed when using Jaws with the codepen, that Jaws also indicated the
> not checked attribute for the radiobutton.
> This could cause the user to try to activate the button even though it did
> not have focus.
> I should also mention that NVDA did not do this.
> Another difference to note on Jaws and NVDA.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 6:29 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Sending focus in a radio button group on error -
> visible focus indicator.
>
> Hi
>
> No, it's not a 2.4.7 fail, because the element the focus is moved to
> is not operable (you can't click the legend to do anything).
> Same as with skip links. Focus is typically placed on the container
> for the main content of the page, not on the first focusable element
> inside that container.
>
> Personally I'd connect the error message to the radio button group
> element using aria-describedby and place focus on the first radio
> button in the group, but that's just a preference (aria-describedby on
> grouping elements has pretty good support across browsers/screen
> readers).
>
>
> On 3/19/22, Laurence Lewis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > A decision was made in our Workplace in regard to error management for a
> > radio button group. If the group has an error, focus is moved to the
> > <legend> and the error message is located inside the legend element
> > Example: Radio button group - error message location
> > <
> https://codepen.io/Deafinitive/pen/RwjRReZ/30b2263b00edadb55840bfee19d76f9b
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > When focus is moved to the legend element, is a visible focus indicator
> > needed, and why? If there is no visible focus indicator is this a failure
> > for 2.4.7 Focus Visible Level AA?
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Laurence Lewis
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >,
> "'athen-list'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:18:01 -0400
> Subject: [WebAIM] DOJ issues web accessibility guidance
> Announced by the US Access Board. Note that it addresses state and local
> governments and businesses.
>
>
> Department of Justice Issues Web Accessibility Guidance Under the ADA
>
>
> The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has published
> <
> https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDAsInVy
>
> aSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMjAzMjEuNTUyMzE4MDEiLCJ1cmwiOiJo
> <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDAsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMjAzMjEuNTUyMzE4MDEiLCJ1cmwiOiJo>
>
> dHRwczovL2JldGEuYWRhLmdvdi93ZWItZ3VpZGFuY2UvIn0.igxSOg4d2XyqRllWVf0tl8ac--4L
> 9hGINVcWVuPaduw/s/31449366/br/128438610983-l> guidance on web accessibility
> and the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to inform state and local
> governments and businesses open to the public on how to ensure their
> websites are accessible to people with disabilities. This guidance uses
> plain language and clear examples to review Title II and Title III of the
> ADA, the importance of web accessibility, barriers that inaccessible
> websites create for some people with disabilities, requirements of the ADA
> to web content, and tips on making web content accessible.
>
> Full article is online:
>
> https://www.access-board.gov/news/2022/03/21/department-of-justice-issues-we
> b-accessibility-guidance-under-the-ada/
> <https://www.access-board.gov/news/2022/03/21/department-of-justice-issues-web-accessibility-guidance-under-the-ada/>
>
> - - -
>
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> - - -
>
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
>
> consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
>
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/ <http://www.pubcom.com/classes>;
> classes
>
> - - -
>
> Latest blog-newsletter
> <https://mailchi.mp/e694edcdfadd/class-discount-3266574> - Simple Guide
> to
> Writing Alt-Text
> <https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_07-20/alt-text_part-1.shtml>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "David Engebretson Jr." < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >, "'WebAIM Discussion List'" <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 14:21:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] DOJ issues web accessibility guidance
> Progress!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 2:18 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; 'athen-list'
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] DOJ issues web accessibility guidance
>
> Announced by the US Access Board. Note that it addresses state and local
> governments and businesses.
>
>
> Department of Justice Issues Web Accessibility Guidance Under the ADA
>
>
> The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has published <
> https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDAsInVy
>
> aSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMjAzMjEuNTUyMzE4MDEiLCJ1cmwiOiJo
> <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDAsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMjAzMjEuNTUyMzE4MDEiLCJ1cmwiOiJo>
>
> dHRwczovL2JldGEuYWRhLmdvdi93ZWItZ3VpZGFuY2UvIn0.igxSOg4d2XyqRllWVf0tl8ac--4L
> 9hGINVcWVuPaduw/s/31449366/br/128438610983-l> guidance on web
> accessibility and the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to inform state
> and local governments and businesses open to the public on how to ensure
> their websites are accessible to people with disabilities. This guidance
> uses plain language and clear examples to review Title II and Title III of
> the ADA, the importance of web accessibility, barriers that inaccessible
> websites create for some people with disabilities, requirements of the ADA
> to web content, and tips on making web content accessible.
>
> Full article is online:
>
> https://www.access-board.gov/news/2022/03/21/department-of-justice-issues-we
> b-accessibility-guidance-under-the-ada/
> <https://www.access-board.gov/news/2022/03/21/department-of-justice-issues-web-accessibility-guidance-under-the-ada/>
>
> - - -
>
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> - - -
>
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
>
> consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
>
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/ <http://www.pubcom.com/classes>;
> classes
>
> - - -
>
> Latest blog-newsletter
> <https://mailchi.mp/e694edcdfadd/class-discount-3266574> - Simple Guide
> to Writing Alt-Text <
> https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_07-20/alt-text_part-1.shtml>
>
>
>
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 22:41:07 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement?
> Interesting thread - oddly I came across an issue in testing only
> yesterday that illustrated it perfectly. I've taken it as a failure of
> 1.3.4 as the image is fine (the text is beautifully clear at all sizes),
> until you go mobile landscape but that's not actually a valid failure
> condition as you can reorient.
>
> I should have considered it as 1.4.3 but the cause is the change of
> position when going from portrait to landscape. At a practical level it is
> easier for the customer to understand orientation as the issue that needs a
> fix than contrast.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> *Kevin Prince *
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
>
> *Foster Moore*
> A Teranet Company
>
> *E* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Christchurch
> *fostermoore.com <http://www.fostermoore.com/>;*
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Patrick H. Lauke
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 March 2022 9:46 pm
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement?
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
>
> On 16/03/2022 01:37, David Engebretson Jr. wrote:
> > And, I wonder, with reflow in play:
> >
> > How can any visual designer test all of the possible instances? I ponder
> how many different devices, resolutions, and screen sizes there might be...
> >
> > As a formerly sighted person the task seems ominous to me. I'm hoping
> you will enlighten me how a segment of a background image that is white
> will allow my low vision and/or color blind colleagues have equal access to
> HTML text that is also white...
>
> There are a few options for designers:
> * plan all their responsive/adaptive layouts carefully so that text is
> guaranteed never to fall over parts of the image that result in contrast
> that's too low
> * modify the background image to guarantee that nothing is too bright
> (darkening the lightest parts of the image, maybe overlaying a dark
> gradient over the original image if they know that text will be placed over
> a particular section, like the bottom third) *add an explicit solid
> backplate/background behind the text, or a contrasting outline or strong
> drop shadow or glow behind the text, to make it contrasting regardless of
> background image
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 22:43:45 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
> I'd also add that if you do it once then you should do it for all external
> links on that site 3.2.4 Consistent Identification.
>
> It's interesting that my screen reading colleague always calls out
> external links (as opposed to open in new window) as a violation and I
> gently say - nice UX but not a fail.
>
> Kevin
>
> *Kevin Prince *
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
>
> *Foster Moore*
> A Teranet Company
>
> *E* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Christchurch
> *fostermoore.com <http://www.fostermoore.com/>;*
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> glen walker
> Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2022 12:31 pm
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
>
> It's a nice user experience to have that but WCAG does not require it.
>
> However, if you *do* have an icon that indicates something different about
> that link compared to other links, that icon will need alternative text to
> convey the same information.
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:13 PM Tom Livingston < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Listers,
> >
> > Do links that open new windows/go off the current site need to have an
> > icon or additional text? Is there a WCAG Guideline covering these?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Tom Livingston | Senior Front End Developer | Media Logic |
> > ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com
> >
> >
> > #663399
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 22:44:36 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
> New window yes, change on context 3.2.2
>
> *Kevin Prince *
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
>
> *Foster Moore*
> A Teranet Company
>
> *E* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Christchurch
> *fostermoore.com <http://www.fostermoore.com/>;*
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Swift, Daniel P.
> Sent: Friday, 18 March 2022 12:31 am
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
>
> I could be wrong, but I thought WCAG required notification to users in
> some capacity if the links would open in a new window … is my memory
> failing me?
>
> Daniel Swift, MBA
> Senior Web Specialist
> University Communications and Marketing
> West Chester University
> 610.738.0589
>
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Tom Livingston
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 3:13 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> Listers,
>
> Do links that open new windows/go off the current site need to have an
> icon or additional text? Is there a WCAG Guideline covering these?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
>
> Tom Livingston | Senior Front End Developer | Media Logic |
> ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com
>
>
> #663399
> > > http://list.webaim.org/<;http://list.webaim.org>;
> List archives at
> http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;http://webaim.org/discussion/archives>;
> > mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = %3E>
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 22:50:41 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
> That's really dancing on the head of a pin. The effect is that there's a
> high likelihood of disorientation by opening a new window unexpectedly -
> magnification users, cognitively challenged users, screenreaders too won't
> get the clues that it has happened.
>
> What was the reasoning for making the change of context so restrictive at
> a WCAG level I wonder?
>
> Kevin
>
> *Kevin Prince *
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
>
> *Foster Moore*
> A Teranet Company
>
> *E* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Christchurch
> *fostermoore.com <http://www.fostermoore.com/>;*
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Steve Green
> Sent: Saturday, 19 March 2022 3:49 am
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
>
> No, because the change of context is not caused by changing the setting of
> a user interface component. It is caused by clicking a link.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Tom Livingston
> Sent: 18 March 2022 14:18
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> In light of the below, and I would interpret this as a change of context,
> does this mean then that we DO need to notify a user of the change before
> it happens?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 9:26 AM Steve Green <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > The definition of a change of context specifically includes a change of
> viewport. A new window is one example of a change of viewport.
> >
> > https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/on-input.html#dfn-changes-
> > of-context
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Tom Livingston | Senior Front End Developer | Media Logic |
> ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com
>
>
> #663399
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: glen walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:56:34 -0600
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
> When you click on a link, you expect for your context to change. That's
> what a link is for so 3.2.2 doesn't fail.
>
> The question might be whether the link opens in the same page or opens a
> new tab/window. Is the former not a change of context but the latter is?
>
> Personally, I don't fail it. I might point out that it's a nice UX to
> notify the user.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 4:51 PM Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> wrote:
>
> > That's really dancing on the head of a pin. The effect is that there's a
> > high likelihood of disorientation by opening a new window unexpectedly -
> > magnification users, cognitively challenged users, screenreaders too
> won't
> > get the clues that it has happened.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: glen walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:59:47 -0600
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement?
> If the image isn't loading in landscape mode, that sounds like a functional
> bug . The fact that the page reflows when in landscape shows that 1.3.4
> passes.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 4:41 PM Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting thread - oddly I came across an issue in testing only
> > yesterday that illustrated it perfectly. I've taken it as a failure of
> > 1.3.4 as the image is fine (the text is beautifully clear at all sizes),
> > until you go mobile landscape but that's not actually a valid failure
> > condition as you can reorient.
> >
> > I should have considered it as 1.4.3 but the cause is the change of
> > position when going from portrait to landscape. At a practical level it
> is
> > easier for the customer to understand orientation as the issue that
> needs a
> > fix than contrast.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 23:05:05 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
> Thanks Glen and Steve, that makes compliance sense given what is written
> in the letter of 3.2.2 and I agree that, if I stay in the same window but
> go to another website it's expected (and well signalled in all sorts of
> ways.) The new website case was always clear in my mind
>
> Having revisited 3.2.2 the advice we're seeing here that opening a link in
> a new window meets the letter of the checkpoint is correct. I shall be
> changing my advice in future to best practice and wondering why that use
> case is not considered worthy - hopefully it will return in 3.0.
>
> All good and thanks again to all for the fascinating and thought-provoking
> posts
>
> Kev
>
> *Kevin Prince *
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
>
> *Foster Moore*
> A Teranet Company
>
> *E* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Christchurch
> *fostermoore.com <http://www.fostermoore.com/>;*
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> glen walker
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 March 2022 11:57 am
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
>
> When you click on a link, you expect for your context to change. That's
> what a link is for so 3.2.2 doesn't fail.
>
> The question might be whether the link opens in the same page or opens a
> new tab/window. Is the former not a change of context but the latter is?
>
> Personally, I don't fail it. I might point out that it's a nice UX to
> notify the user.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 4:51 PM Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> wrote:
>
> > That's really dancing on the head of a pin. The effect is that there's
> > a high likelihood of disorientation by opening a new window
> > unexpectedly - magnification users, cognitively challenged users,
> > screenreaders too won't get the clues that it has happened.
> >
> >
> >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 23:06:24 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement?
> The image loads, but loads such that it obscures the text. Have updated
> the advice to 1.4.3 which, thankfully, was still in a draft
>
> Kev
>
> *Kevin Prince *
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
>
> *Foster Moore*
> A Teranet Company
>
> *E* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Christchurch
> *fostermoore.com <http://www.fostermoore.com/>;*
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> glen walker
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 March 2022 12:00 pm
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Removing CSS Background image for legibility an
> Accessibility requirement?
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
>
> If the image isn't loading in landscape mode, that sounds like a
> functional bug . The fact that the page reflows when in landscape shows
> that 1.3.4 passes.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 4:41 PM Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting thread - oddly I came across an issue in testing only
> > yesterday that illustrated it perfectly. I've taken it as a failure of
> > 1.3.4 as the image is fine (the text is beautifully clear at all
> > sizes), until you go mobile landscape but that's not actually a valid
> > failure condition as you can reorient.
> >
> > I should have considered it as 1.4.3 but the cause is the change of
> > position when going from portrait to landscape. At a practical level
> > it is easier for the customer to understand orientation as the issue
> > that needs a fix than contrast.
> >
> >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 03:55:06 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
> Opening new windows was not an omission. It's covered by WCAG SC 3.2.5
> (Change on Request), which is level AAA.
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Kevin Prince
> Sent: 21 March 2022 23:05
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> Thanks Glen and Steve, that makes compliance sense given what is written
> in the letter of 3.2.2 and I agree that, if I stay in the same window but
> go to another website it's expected (and well signalled in all sorts of
> ways.) The new website case was always clear in my mind
>
> Having revisited 3.2.2 the advice we're seeing here that opening a link in
> a new window meets the letter of the checkpoint is correct. I shall be
> changing my advice in future to best practice and wondering why that use
> case is not considered worthy - hopefully it will return in 3.0.
>
> All good and thanks again to all for the fascinating and thought-provoking
> posts
>
> Kev
> Kevin Prince
> Product Accessibility & Usability Consultant
>
> Foster Moore
> A Teranet Company
>
> E = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Christchurch
> fostermoore.com<http://www.fostermoore.com/>;
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >> On Behalf Of glen walker
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 March 2022 11:57 am
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links that open new windows and/or go off site
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
>
> When you click on a link, you expect for your context to change. That's
> what a link is for so 3.2.2 doesn't fail.
>
> The question might be whether the link opens in the same page or opens a
> new tab/window. Is the former not a change of context but the latter is?
>
> Personally, I don't fail it. I might point out that it's a nice UX to
> notify the user.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 4:51 PM Kevin Prince < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
> wrote:
>
> > That's really dancing on the head of a pin. The effect is that there's
> > a high likelihood of disorientation by opening a new window
> > unexpectedly - magnification users, cognitively challenged users,
> > screenreaders too won't get the clues that it has happened.
> >
> >
> >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > >