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Thread: AccessiBe! Help!!

Number of posts in this thread: 23 (In chronological order)

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 8:12AM
Subject: AccessiBe! Help!!
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<p>hey all,</p>
<p>I'd <b>really</b> appreciate your help with this.</p>
<p>A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://imagemd.org/">imagemd.org/</a></p>
<p>We have a version without the overlay <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://dev.imagemd.org/">dev.imagemd.org/</a>. What I'm
hoping is you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can
justify disabling it.<br>
</p>
<p>Thank you <b>so much!</b><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Sandy
<p><a href="https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
</body>
</html>

From: Nathan Clark
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 8:16AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
don't suggest any company using them.

Nate

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> hey all,
>
> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>
> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site imagemd.org/
>
> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping is
> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling it.
>
> Thank you so much!
>
> --
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com
> a11yready.com
>
>
>
>

--
Nathan Clark
QA Automation Analyst Tech team
Accessibility assistant
CPACC
cell: 410-446-7259
email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
101 Village Blvd
Princeton, NJ 08540
SMBE & Minority Owned Business

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 8:39AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
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<p>Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual
examples from the site.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href="https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPG8zG3n1LQPMmGP3qnnt2LEW0zAY2t9gvGy-ZXudnheUV+ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
don't suggest any company using them.

Nate

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site imagemd.org/

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping is
you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling it.

Thank you so much!

--
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">

</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Nathan Clark
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 8:46AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Dear Sandy,
That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.

Sincerely,
Nathan Clark

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from
> the site.
>
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com
> a11yready.com
>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
>>
>> Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
>> Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
>> don't suggest any company using them.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>> hey all,
>>>
>>> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>>>
>>> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
>>> imagemd.org/
>>>
>>> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping
>>> is
>>> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Thank you so much!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sandy
>>>
>>> sandyfeldman.com
>>> a11yready.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

--
Nathan Clark
QA Automation Analyst Tech team
Accessibility assistant
CPACC
cell: 410-446-7259
email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
101 Village Blvd
Princeton, NJ 08540
SMBE & Minority Owned Business

From: Catherine Roy
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 8:57AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Sandy,

Have you seen these resources?

https://overlayfactsheet.com/

https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/

https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays

HTH,
Catherine

--
Catherine Roy
www.catherine-roy.net

> On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Dear Sandy,
> That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.
>
> Sincerely,
> Nathan Clark
>
>
>> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from
>> the site.
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com
>> a11yready.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
>>>
>>> Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
>>> Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
>>> don't suggest any company using them.
>>>
>>> Nate
>>>
>>> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hey all,
>>>>
>>>> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>>>>
>>>> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
>>>> imagemd.org/
>>>>
>>>> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping
>>>> is
>>>> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sandy
>>>>
>>>> sandyfeldman.com
>>>> a11yready.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Clark
> QA Automation Analyst Tech team
> Accessibility assistant
> CPACC
> cell: 410-446-7259
> email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 101 Village Blvd
> Princeton, NJ 08540
> SMBE & Minority Owned Business
> > > >

From: Hayman, Douglass
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:04AM
Subject: Re: - AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Sandy,

What exactly is the overlay offering or enhancing for people with disabilities?

Would a full time screen reader user turn her/his screen reader off to use the overlay one instead? Would they even know what the keyboard commands are that this other screen reader uses?

Since the page has no animation is there a need to offer something to stop animation, especially as an overlay only works on the web site where it is installed and not universally across all web pages?

Can't the user just make use of Command/Control plus or minus to increase font size on their own for all sites and not just this site? If they regularly need to change fonts, color schemes, spacing and so on would they only do that on your client's site and not on all web sites they visit? Wouldn't they buy and use such assistive technology to do those actions on all web sites?

The web site doesn't appear to have seizure inducing content so toggling that on/off wouldn't do anything.

Is the web site not already navigable using only the keyboard or does the overlay provide an enhancement to that?

On quick check with WAVE and ANDI the heading levels get called out as there is the unconventional use of H5 tags on those horizontal line separators, called out for skipping heading levels.

What do the ADHD and cognitive elements of the overlay truly do?

Overall, what does the overlay provide that isn't already there? With the overlay removed, who is limited in access due to the absence?

Doug Hayman
IT Accessibility Coordinator
Information Technology
Olympic College
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
(360) 475-7632

From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:12 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!

CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering!

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site imagemd.org/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%3D&reserved=0>

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdev.imagemd.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vvsvKgzJ19rs7shljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=0>. What I'm hoping is you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling it.

Thank you so much!
--
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5rAaU6jkwEiBgFLaW8160P65je0WIjBo8nhY5Pe5NAE%3D&reserved=0>
a11yready.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oMwC88qf7uWajUdpYNb16MrqTevmJHzweFIVkQZDoPg%3D&reserved=0>

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:04AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
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<p>Catherine, thank you.<br>
</p>
<p>I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping.
What I really need is examples specific to this site of things
going wrong.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href="https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Hi Sandy,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have you seen these resources?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://overlayfactsheet.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://overlayfactsheet.com/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>HTH,</div>
<div>Catherine</div>
<div><br>
<div dir="ltr">--
<div>Catherine Roy</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.catherine-roy.net">www.catherine-roy.net</a></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan
Clark <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span>Dear Sandy,</span><br>
<span>That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their
overlay thing works.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Sincerely,</span><br>
<span>Nathan Clark</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Nate, thanks - but it didn't
work! We need to provide actual examples from</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the site.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sandy</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>sandyfeldman.com</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>a11yready.com</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m.,
Nathan Clark wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Just tell them that
disability rights organizations like the National</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Federation of the Blind have
spoken out against Accessibee and they</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>don't suggest any company
using them.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Nate</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>hey all,</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I'd really appreciate your
help with this.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>A client has been
pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>imagemd.org/</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>We have a version without
the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>is</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>you guys find things
AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>it.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Thank you so much!</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>--</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sandy</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>sandyfeldman.com</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>a11yready.com</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>-- </span><br>
<span>Nathan Clark</span><br>
<span>QA Automation Analyst Tech team</span><br>
<span>Accessibility assistant</span><br>
<span>CPACC</span><br>
<span>cell: 410-446-7259</span><br>
<span>email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a></span><br>
<span>101 Village Blvd</span><br>
<span>Princeton, NJ 08540</span><br>
<span>SMBE & Minority Owned Business</span><br>
<span> <span> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://list.webaim.org/">http://list.webaim.org/<;/a></span><br>
<span>List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a></span><br>
<span> </div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:20AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples
would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that might
be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case
public.

--
Ryan E. Benson

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Catherine, thank you.
>
> I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
> really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com
> a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:
>
> Hi Sandy,
>
> Have you seen these resources?
>
> https://overlayfactsheet.com/
>
> https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/
>
>
> https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays
>
> HTH,
> Catherine
>
> --
> Catherine Roy
> www.catherine-roy.net
>
> On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Dear Sandy,
> That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.
>
> Sincerely,
> Nathan Clark
>
>
> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from
>
> the site.
>
>
> Sandy
>
>
> sandyfeldman.com
>
> a11yready.com
>
>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
>
>
> Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
>
> Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
>
> don't suggest any company using them.
>
>
> Nate
>
>
> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>
> hey all,
>
>
> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>
>
> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
>
> imagemd.org/
>
>
> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping
>
> is
>
> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling
>
> it.
>
>
> Thank you so much!
>
>
> --
>
> Sandy
>
>
> sandyfeldman.com
>
> a11yready.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Clark
> QA Automation Analyst Tech team
> Accessibility assistant
> CPACC
> cell: 410-446-7259
> email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 101 Village Blvd
> Princeton, NJ 08540
> SMBE & Minority Owned Business
> > > > >
> > > > >

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:29AM
Subject: Re: - AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF=
-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Douglass,</p>
<p>Really good point about the skipped heading levels - thank you. <b=
r>
</p>
<p>I just "WAVED" both versions and there are 10 alerts on the
AccessiBe one and 0 on the AccessiBe free one. I can use that.<br>
</p>
<p>My feeling - like yours - is that the site doesn't need an
overlay, even if overlays worked. I would like it gone. I worked
very hard on making it accessible. I had lots of testing by the
IMAGE community. I think it works.<br>
</p>
<p>Some errors have slipped in as it's been updated by the client,
but better to review the site and fix them than to add an overlay!<=
br>
</p>
Sandy
<div class=3D"moz-signature">
<p><a href=3D"https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 11:04 a.m., Hayman,
Douglass wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"
cite=3D"mid: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 03=
=2Eprod.outlook.com">
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">Sandy,

What exactly is the overlay offering or enhancing for people with disabil=
ities?

Would a full time screen reader user turn her/his screen reader off to us=
e the overlay one instead? Would they even know what the keyboard comman=
ds are that this other screen reader uses?

Since the page has no animation is there a need to offer something to sto=
p animation, especially as an overlay only works on the web site where it=
is installed and not universally across all web pages?

Can't the user just make use of Command/Control plus or minus to increase=
font size on their own for all sites and not just this site? If they re=
gularly need to change fonts, color schemes, spacing and so on would they=
only do that on your client's site and not on all web sites they visit? =
Wouldn't they buy and use such assistive technology to do those actions =
on all web sites?

The web site doesn't appear to have seizure inducing content so toggling =
that on/off wouldn't do anything.

Is the web site not already navigable using only the keyboard or does the=
overlay provide an enhancement to that?

On quick check with WAVE and ANDI the heading levels get called out as th=
ere is the unconventional use of H5 tags on those horizontal line separat=
ors, called out for skipping heading levels.

What do the ADHD and cognitive elements of the overlay truly do?

Overall, what does the overlay provide that isn't already there? With th=
e overlay removed, who is limited in access due to the absence?

Doug Hayman
IT Accessibility Coordinator
Information Technology
Olympic College
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "=
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto=
: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
(360) 475-7632

From: WebAIM-Forum <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:weba=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = =
g></a> On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:12 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mai=
lto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a=
>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!

CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware =
of phishing and social engineering!

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site imagemd.o=
rg/<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.pro=
tection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C0=
1%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab=
1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2=
000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DYKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%=
3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?=
url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic=
=2Eedu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3=
085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sd=
ata=3DYKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%3D&reserved=3D0=
></a>

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/<a class=3D"moz-txt=
-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?u=
rl=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdev.imagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olym=
pic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc=
3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&s=
data=3DvvsvKgzJ19rs7shljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=3D0">&=
lt;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fde=
v.imagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b3=
04ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891=
712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi=
LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DvvsvKgzJ19rs7s=
hljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=3D0></a>. What I'm hopin=
g is you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabl=
ing it.

Thank you so much!
--
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F=
&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f2=
1ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CU=
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi=
LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3D5rAaU6jkwEiBgFLaW8160P65je0WIj=
Bo8nhY5Pe5NAE%3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection=
=2Eoutlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data=3D05%7C0=
1%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab=
1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2=
000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3D5rAaU6jkwEiBgFLaW8160P65je0WIjBo8nhY5Pe5NAE%3D&a=
mp;reserved=3D0></a>
a11yready.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.saf=
elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&a=
mp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21b=
a3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnk=
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC=
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DoMwC88qf7uWajUdpYNb16MrqTevmJHzw=
eFIVkQZDoPg%3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7=
Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab154=
4c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8=
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%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DoMwC88qf7uWajUdpYNb16MrqTevmJHzweFIVkQZDoPg%3D&=
reserved=3D0></a>

f=3D"http://list.webaim.org/">http://list.webaim.org/<;/a>
List archives at <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://webaim=
=2Eorg/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
ilto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Andy Andrews
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:33AM
Subject: Re: - AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

I agree with what Doug has mentioned. I would add that one of the many issues with this product is that it automatically detects a screen reader and turns the product on without any prompting from the user. Basically accessible is forcing them to use this product until they can navigate to turn it off. That is a good way to piss someone off enough to never come back to your site if they don't need to.

Also the vision adjustment and the ADHD adjustment were exactly the same (really bright, super saturated colors) except the ADHD adjustment added a dark grey "focus" filter.

Andy

From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:30 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; Hayman, Douglass < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] - AccessiBe! Help!!

Douglass,

Really good point about the skipped heading levels - thank you.

I just "WAVED" both versions and there are 10 alerts on the AccessiBe one and 0 on the AccessiBe free one. I can use that.

My feeling - like yours - is that the site doesn't need an overlay, even if overlays worked. I would like it gone. I worked very hard on making it accessible. I had lots of testing by the IMAGE community. I think it works.

Some errors have slipped in as it's been updated by the client, but better to review the site and fix them than to add an overlay!
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<https://sandyfeldman.com>
a11yready.com<https://www.a11yready.com/>

On 2022-05-26 11:04 a.m., Hayman, Douglass wrote:

Sandy,

What exactly is the overlay offering or enhancing for people with disabilities?

Would a full time screen reader user turn her/his screen reader off to use the overlay one instead? Would they even know what the keyboard commands are that this other screen reader uses?

Since the page has no animation is there a need to offer something to stop animation, especially as an overlay only works on the web site where it is installed and not universally across all web pages?

Can't the user just make use of Command/Control plus or minus to increase font size on their own for all sites and not just this site? If they regularly need to change fonts, color schemes, spacing and so on would they only do that on your client's site and not on all web sites they visit? Wouldn't they buy and use such assistive technology to do those actions on all web sites?

The web site doesn't appear to have seizure inducing content so toggling that on/off wouldn't do anything.

Is the web site not already navigable using only the keyboard or does the overlay provide an enhancement to that?

On quick check with WAVE and ANDI the heading levels get called out as there is the unconventional use of H5 tags on those horizontal line separators, called out for skipping heading levels.

What do the ADHD and cognitive elements of the overlay truly do?

Overall, what does the overlay provide that isn't already there? With the overlay removed, who is limited in access due to the absence?

Doug Hayman

IT Accessibility Coordinator

Information Technology

Olympic College

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

(360) 475-7632

From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman

Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:12 AM

To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!

CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering!

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site imagemd.org/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%3D&reserved=0><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%3D&reserved=0>

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdev.imagemd.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vvsvKgzJ19rs7shljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=0><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdev.imagemd.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vvsvKgzJ19rs7shljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=0>. What I'm hoping is you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling it.

Thank you so much!

--

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5rAaU6jkwEiBgFLaW8160P65je0WIjBo8nhY5Pe5NAE%3D&reserved=0><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5rAaU6jkwEiBgFLaW8160P65je0WIjBo8nhY5Pe5NAE%3D&reserved=0>

a11yready.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oMwC88qf7uWajUdpYNb16MrqTevmJHzweFIVkQZDoPg%3D&reserved=0><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oMwC88qf7uWajUdpYNb16MrqTevmJHzweFIVkQZDoPg%3D&reserved=0>

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:34AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site
owner is a JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the
point. <br>
</p>
<p>I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this
thing off.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href="https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E.
Benson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALwz_N2tA7Zhe4VSnHqwkZBP5bNZHVGO0BXGEWm= = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples
would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that might
be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case
public.

--
Ryan E. Benson

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Catherine, thank you.

I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.a11yready.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a>

On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:

Hi Sandy,

Have you seen these resources?

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://overlayfactsheet.com/">https://overlayfactsheet.com/</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/">https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays">https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays</a>

HTH,
Catherine

--
Catherine Roy
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.catherine-roy.net">www.catherine-roy.net</a>

On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

Dear Sandy,
That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.

Sincerely,
Nathan Clark

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from

the site.

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com

On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:

Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National

Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they

don't suggest any company using them.

Nate

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site

imagemd.org/

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping

is

you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling

it.

Thank you so much!

--

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com

--
Nathan Clark
QA Automation Analyst Tech team
Accessibility assistant
CPACC
cell: 410-446-7259
email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>
101 Village Blvd
Princeton, NJ 08540
SMBE & Minority Owned Business
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:39AM
Subject: Re: - AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

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<head>
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-8">
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<body>
<p>"forcing them to use this product until they can navigate to turn
it off" and it's the last miserable thing on the screen to get
focus.<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href=3D"https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 11:33 a.m., Andy Andrews=

wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"
cite=3D"mid: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 08=
=2Eprod.outlook.com">
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">I agree with what Doug has m=
entioned. I would add that one of the many issues with this product is th=
at it automatically detects a screen reader and turns the product on with=
out any prompting from the user. Basically accessible is forcing them to =
use this product until they can navigate to turn it off. That is a good w=
ay to piss someone off enough to never come back to your site if they don=
't need to.

Also the vision adjustment and the ADHD adjustment were exactly the same =
(really bright, super saturated colors) except the ADHD adjustment added =
a dark grey "focus" filter.

Andy

From: WebAIM-Forum <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:weba=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = =
g></a> On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:30 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mai=
lto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a=
>; Hayman, Douglass <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:dha=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] - AccessiBe! Help!!

Douglass,

Really good point about the skipped heading levels - thank you.

I just "WAVED" both versions and there are 10 alerts on the AccessiBe one=
and 0 on the AccessiBe free one. I can use that.

My feeling - like yours - is that the site doesn't need an overlay, even =
if overlays worked. I would like it gone. I worked very hard on making it=
accessible. I had lots of testing by the IMAGE community. I think it wor=
ks.

Some errors have slipped in as it's been updated by the client, but bette=
r to review the site and fix them than to add an overlay!
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://sandyf=
eldman.com"><https://sandyfeldman.com></a>
a11yready.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://www.a11yr=
eady.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a>

On 2022-05-26 11:04 a.m., Hayman, Douglass wrote:

Sandy,

What exactly is the overlay offering or enhancing for people with disabil=
ities?

Would a full time screen reader user turn her/his screen reader off to us=
e the overlay one instead? Would they even know what the keyboard comman=
ds are that this other screen reader uses?

Since the page has no animation is there a need to offer something to sto=
p animation, especially as an overlay only works on the web site where it=
is installed and not universally across all web pages?

Can't the user just make use of Command/Control plus or minus to increase=
font size on their own for all sites and not just this site? If they re=
gularly need to change fonts, color schemes, spacing and so on would they=
only do that on your client's site and not on all web sites they visit? =
Wouldn't they buy and use such assistive technology to do those actions =
on all web sites?

The web site doesn't appear to have seizure inducing content so toggling =
that on/off wouldn't do anything.

Is the web site not already navigable using only the keyboard or does the=
overlay provide an enhancement to that?

On quick check with WAVE and ANDI the heading levels get called out as th=
ere is the unconventional use of H5 tags on those horizontal line separat=
ors, called out for skipping heading levels.

What do the ADHD and cognitive elements of the overlay truly do?

Overall, what does the overlay provide that isn't already there? With th=
e overlay removed, who is limited in access due to the absence?

Doug Hayman

IT Accessibility Coordinator

Information Technology

Olympic College

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "=
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto=
: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class=3D"m=
oz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto:dhay=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>

(360) 475-7632

From: WebAIM-Forum <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:weba=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = =
g></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:webaim-forum-b=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = &g=
t;</a> On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman

Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:12 AM

To: WebAIM Discussion List <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mai=
lto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a=
><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = =
im.org"><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>

Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!

CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware =
of phishing and social engineering!

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site imagemd.o=
rg/<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.pro=
tection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C0=
1%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab=
1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2=
000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DYKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%=
3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?=
url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic=
=2Eedu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3=
085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sd=
ata=3DYKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%3D&reserved=3D0=
></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelink=
s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data=3D0=
5%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C50893=
78aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFp=
bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3=
D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DYKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwW=
rS8I%3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fimagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40ol=
ympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21c=
cc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL=
jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&amp=
;sdata=3DYKbEs7kSK50Axw%2FLm%2BzCtUqo5Lss9MAwRYIaPwWrS8I%3D&reserved=3D=
0></a>

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/<a class=3D"moz-txt=
-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?u=
rl=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdev.imagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olym=
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data=3DvvsvKgzJ19rs7shljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=3D0">&=
lt;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fde=
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lympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21=
ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w=
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p;sdata=3DvvsvKgzJ19rs7shljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=3D0=
"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdev.imagemd.org%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a6832=
2b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637=
891712238178126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM=
zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DvvsvKgzJ19r=
s7shljcVyPhT8v65CmlxAn9hDmcbHeJw%3D&reserved=3D0></a>. What I'm ho=
ping is you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify dis=
abling it.

Thank you so much!

--

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.=
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05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C467a68322b304ef82adb08da3f21ba3c%7C5089=
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f=3D"http://list.webaim.org/">http://list.webaim.org/<;/a>

List archives at <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://webaim=
=2Eorg/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>

ilto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a><a cla=
ss=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "=
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List archives at <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://webaim=
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ilto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Hayman, Douglass
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:48AM
Subject: Re: - AccessiBe! Help!!
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Sandy,

Like Andy mentioned, something that interferes with someone's screen reader creates a bad experience.

We wouldn't propose that a full time user of a customized power wheelchair leave that at the door of a grocery store and instead use that one-sized-suits-all motorized chair in the store. While the customized chair is suited to the person's body, may use head controlled or other navigation, could have left or right handed joystick and so on, screen reader users make choices on a whole variety of things. The idea of making it to this web site without a screen reader and then chancing upon âoh good, they offer a screen readerâ is far-fetched. And some of these overlay firms give you the choice to turn such features off or hide them.

Those who rely upon screen readers would likely do something more system-wide if they were without their screen reader like in the case of using somebody else's machine. They might toggle on narrator in Windows or Voiceover on macOS and proceed from there to make do without their preferred assistive technology.

I primarily use Chrome as my web browser and have AccessiByeBy enabled to hide such overlays, only toggling that off to do things like looking at your site with the overlay in action.

It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various forms of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the non-overlay site as to what they would like to see changed to make the site meet their needs.

Doug Hayman
IT Accessibility Coordinator
Information Technology
Olympic College
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
(360) 475-7632

From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:34 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; Ryan E. Benson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!

CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering!

A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.

I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Vr0PZStHSb2HKdkQ7akwpVnCggo94P7knlWwCyhXK04%3D&reserved=0>
a11yready.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>

On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:

Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples

would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that might

be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case

public.

--

Ryan E. Benson

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Catherine, thank you.

I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I

really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>

On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:

Hi Sandy,

Have you seen these resources?

https://overlayfactsheet.com/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverlayfactsheet.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ru5RXmriDZj9ADS0MFEynXblPnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3D&reserved=0>

https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faccessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibility-news%2Fdo-away-with-overlays%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8SjkBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&reserved=0>

https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialaccessibility.com%2Fblog%2Fthe-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4%3D&reserved=0>

HTH,

Catherine

--

Catherine Roy

www.catherine-roy.net<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catherine-roy.net%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AweFinZyvTRm%2BWM0mNru4Yn1tnyNRj4g90M8hevWeHE%3D&reserved=0>

On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Dear Sandy,

That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.

Sincerely,

Nathan Clark

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from

the site.

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com

On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:

Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National

Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they

don't suggest any company using them.

Nate

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site

imagemd.org/

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping

is

you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling

it.

Thank you so much!

--

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com

--

Nathan Clark

QA Automation Analyst Tech team

Accessibility assistant

CPACC

cell: 410-446-7259

email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

101 Village Blvd

Princeton, NJ 08540

SMBE & Minority Owned Business

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 9:58AM
Subject: Re: -AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF=
-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>"It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use
various forms of assistive technology and have them provide
feedback on the non-overlay site as to what they would like to see
changed to make the site meet their needs."
</p>
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">That's actually what happened =
when the site was developed. IMAGE Center clients got their say in how th=
e site worked and I made changes so that people could use it the way they=
liked. And now this. I can't even.

Thank you for helping to articulate the case against it. Wish us luck.
</pre>
<div class=3D"moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href=3D"https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 11:48 a.m., Hayman,
Douglass wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"
cite=3D"mid: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 03=
=2Eprod.outlook.com">
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">Sandy,

Like Andy mentioned, something that interferes with someone=E2=80=99s scr=
een reader creates a bad experience.

We wouldn=E2=80=99t propose that a full time user of a customized power w=
heelchair leave that at the door of a grocery store and instead use that =
one-sized-suits-all motorized chair in the store. While the customized c=
hair is suited to the person=E2=80=99s body, may use head controlled or o=
ther navigation, could have left or right handed joystick and so on, scre=
en reader users make choices on a whole variety of things. The idea of m=
aking it to this web site without a screen reader and then chancing upon =
=E2=80=9Coh good, they offer a screen reader=E2=80=9D is far-fetched. A=
nd some of these overlay firms give you the choice to turn such features =
off or hide them.

Those who rely upon screen readers would likely do something more system-=
wide if they were without their screen reader like in the case of using s=
omebody else=E2=80=99s machine. They might toggle on narrator in Windows=
or Voiceover on macOS and proceed from there to make do without their pr=
eferred assistive technology.

I primarily use Chrome as my web browser and have AccessiByeBy enabled to=
hide such overlays, only toggling that off to do things like looking at =
your site with the overlay in action.

It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various forms =
of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the non-overlay=
site as to what they would like to see changed to make the site meet the=
ir needs.

Doug Hayman
IT Accessibility Coordinator
Information Technology
Olympic College
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "=
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto=
: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
(360) 475-7632

From: WebAIM-Forum <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:weba=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = =
g></a> On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:34 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mai=
lto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a=
>; Ryan E. Benson <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:ryan.=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!

CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware =
of phishing and social engineering!

A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a =
JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.

I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F=
&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2=
d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CU=
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi=
LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DVr0PZStHSb2HKdkQ7akwpVnCggo94P=
7knlWwCyhXK04%3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection=
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1%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab=
1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3=
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mp;reserved=3D0></a>
a11yready.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.saf=
elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&a=
mp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3=
a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnk=
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC=
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a4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.protection=
=2Eoutlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data=3D05%7C=
01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aa=
b1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs=
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D&reserved=3D0></a>

On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:

Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples

would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that mig=
ht

be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case

public.

--

Ryan E. Benson

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc=
2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = &=
gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:sandy@sandyfeldm=
an.com"><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

Catherine, thank you.

I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I

really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://www.a11y=
ready.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-lin=
k-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3D=
https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic=
=2Eedu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3=
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ata=3DgXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=3D0">=
<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.a11yready.com%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01=
ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637=
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e%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=3D0></a>

On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:

Hi Sandy,

Have you seen these resources?

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://overlayfactsheet.com/"=
>https://overlayfactsheet.com/</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=
=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fo=
verlayfactsheet.com%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80=
d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C=
637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2=
luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3Dru5RXmri=
DZj9ADS0MFEynXblPnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam1=
2.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Foverlayfactsheet.=
com%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e0=
8da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C6378917607336263=
92%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik=
1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3Dru5RXmriDZj9ADS0MFEynXbl=
PnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3D&reserved=3D0></a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://accessibleweb.com/web-=
accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/">https://accessibleweb.com/web-=
accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc=
2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp=
s%3A%2F%2Faccessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibility-news%2Fdo-away-with-overl=
ays%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e0=
8da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C6378917607336263=
92%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik=
1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DXrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8=
SjkBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&reserved=3D0"><https://nam12.safelinks.prot=
ection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Faccessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibi=
lity-news%2Fdo-away-with-overlays%2F&data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olymp=
ic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3=
085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sd=
ata=3DXrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8SjkBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&reserved=3D0>=
</a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.essentialaccessibi=
lity.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays">https://www.es=
sentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays=
</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.pr=
otection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialaccessibility.com%=
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Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab154=
4c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8=
eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=
%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DIiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4=
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u%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7=
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IiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4%3D&reserved=3D0&g=
t;</a>

HTH,

Catherine

--

Catherine Roy

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f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7=
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wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3DAweFinZyvTRm%2BWM0mNru4Yn1tn=
yNRj4g90M8hevWeHE%3D&reserved=3D0></a>

On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc23=
96E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = &=
gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:nathan.clark@add=
teq.com"><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = =
">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" h=
ref=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = =
></a> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFDear Sandy,

That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works=
=2E

Sincerely,

Nathan Clark

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mail=
to: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class=3D"=
moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto:=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "=
>< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" hre=
f=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >=
</a> wrote:

Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples fro=
m

the site.

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com

On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:

Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National

Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they

don't suggest any company using them.

Nate

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mail=
to: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class=3D"=
moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto:=
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "=
>< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" hre=
f=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >=
</a> wrote:

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site

imagemd.org/

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping

is

you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling

it.

Thank you so much!

--

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com

--

Nathan Clark

QA Automation Analyst Tech team

Accessibility assistant

CPACC

cell: 410-446-7259

email: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Nathan.clark@=
addteq.com"> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"=
href=3D"mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "><mailto:Nathan.clark@addteq.c=
om></a>

101 Village Blvd

Princeton, NJ 08540

SMBE & Minority Owned Business

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</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Greg Jellin
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 10:38AM
Subject: Re: -AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

@Andy, does it really turn off some screen readers? Which ones? I just
tested with JAWS and it didn't turn off. I'm not sure how they could
access an application outside of the browser with JavaScript.

"I agree with what Doug has mentioned. I would add that one of the many issues with this product is that it automatically detects a screen reader and turns the product on without any prompting from the user. Basically accessible is forcing them to use this product until they can navigate to turn it off. That is a good way to piss someone off enough to never come back to your site if they don't need to."

On 5/26/2022 8:58 AM, Sandy Feldman wrote:
>
> "It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various
> forms of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the
> non-overlay site as to what they would like to see changed to make the
> site meet their needs."
>
> That's actually what happened when the site was developed. IMAGE Center clients got their say in how the site worked and I made changes so that people could use it the way they liked. And now this. I can't even.
>
> Thank you for helping to articulate the case against it. Wish us luck.
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com <https://sandyfeldman.com>
> a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>
>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 11:48 a.m., Hayman, Douglass wrote:
>> Sandy,
>>
>> Like Andy mentioned, something that interferes with someone's screen reader creates a bad experience.
>>
>> We wouldn't propose that a full time user of a customized power wheelchair leave that at the door of a grocery store and instead use that one-sized-suits-all motorized chair in the store. While the customized chair is suited to the person's body, may use head controlled or other navigation, could have left or right handed joystick and so on, screen reader users make choices on a whole variety of things. The idea of making it to this web site without a screen reader and then chancing upon âoh good, they offer a screen readerâ is far-fetched. And some of these overlay firms give you the choice to turn such features off or hide them.
>>
>> Those who rely upon screen readers would likely do something more system-wide if they were without their screen reader like in the case of using somebody else's machine. They might toggle on narrator in Windows or Voiceover on macOS and proceed from there to make do without their preferred assistive technology.
>>
>> I primarily use Chrome as my web browser and have AccessiByeBy enabled to hide such overlays, only toggling that off to do things like looking at your site with the overlay in action.
>>
>> It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various forms of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the non-overlay site as to what they would like to see changed to make the site meet their needs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doug Hayman
>> IT Accessibility Coordinator
>> Information Technology
>> Olympic College
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> (360) 475-7632
>>
>>
>>
>> From: WebAIM-Forum< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:34 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; Ryan E. Benson< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!
>>
>> CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering!
>>
>>
>> A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.
>>
>> I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
>> Sandy
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Vr0PZStHSb2HKdkQ7akwpVnCggo94P7knlWwCyhXK04%3D&reserved=0>
>> a11yready.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:
>>
>> Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples
>>
>> would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that might
>>
>> be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case
>>
>> public.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ryan E. Benson
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Catherine, thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
>>
>> really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com
>>
>> a11yready.com<https://www.a11yready.com/><https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Sandy,
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you seen these resources?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://overlayfactsheet.com/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverlayfactsheet.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ru5RXmriDZj9ADS0MFEynXblPnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faccessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibility-news%2Fdo-away-with-overlays%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8SjkBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialaccessibility.com%2Fblog%2Fthe-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Catherine
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Catherine Roy
>>
>> www.catherine-roy.net<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catherine-roy.net%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AweFinZyvTRm%2BWM0mNru4Yn1tnyNRj4g90M8hevWeHE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Sandy,
>>
>> That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from
>>
>>
>>
>> the site.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com
>>
>>
>>
>> a11yready.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
>>
>>
>>
>> Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
>>
>>
>>
>> don't suggest any company using them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> hey all,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
>>
>>
>>
>> imagemd.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping
>>
>>
>>
>> is
>>
>>
>>
>> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling
>>
>>
>>
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you so much!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com
>>
>>
>>
>> a11yready.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>> QA Automation Analyst Tech team
>>
>> Accessibility assistant
>>
>> CPACC
>>
>> cell: 410-446-7259
>>
>> email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> 101 Village Blvd
>>
>> Princeton, NJ 08540
>>
>> SMBE & Minority Owned Business
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> List archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZS%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> List archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZS%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> List archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZS%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> >> >> >> List archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >
> > > List archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: Andy Andrews
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 10:50AM
Subject: Re: -AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Hey Greg,

I don't think it turns off the screen reader. However, since the overly automatically turns on when it detects a screen reader is being used, the user has to use their screen reader to navigate to the AccessiBe overlay if they want to turn it off and use their screen reader the way they prefer to use it. In all other cases the user can turn on one of the overlays by choice, not force.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Greg Jellin
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:38 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] - Re: AccessiBe! Help!!

@Andy, does it really turn off some screen readers? Which ones? I just tested with JAWS and it didn't turn off. I'm not sure how they could access an application outside of the browser with JavaScript.

"I agree with what Doug has mentioned. I would add that one of the many issues with this product is that it automatically detects a screen reader and turns the product on without any prompting from the user. Basically accessible is forcing them to use this product until they can navigate to turn it off. That is a good way to piss someone off enough to never come back to your site if they don't need to."

On 5/26/2022 8:58 AM, Sandy Feldman wrote:
>
> "It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various
> forms of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the
> non-overlay site as to what they would like to see changed to make the
> site meet their needs."
>
> That's actually what happened when the site was developed. IMAGE Center clients got their say in how the site worked and I made changes so that people could use it the way they liked. And now this. I can't even.
>
> Thank you for helping to articulate the case against it. Wish us luck.
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com <https://sandyfeldman.com> a11yready.com
> <https://www.a11yready.com/>
>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 11:48 a.m., Hayman, Douglass wrote:
>> Sandy,
>>
>> Like Andy mentioned, something that interferes with someone's screen reader creates a bad experience.
>>
>> We wouldn't propose that a full time user of a customized power wheelchair leave that at the door of a grocery store and instead use that one-sized-suits-all motorized chair in the store. While the customized chair is suited to the person's body, may use head controlled or other navigation, could have left or right handed joystick and so on, screen reader users make choices on a whole variety of things. The idea of making it to this web site without a screen reader and then chancing upon âoh good, they offer a screen readerâ is far-fetched. And some of these overlay firms give you the choice to turn such features off or hide them.
>>
>> Those who rely upon screen readers would likely do something more system-wide if they were without their screen reader like in the case of using somebody else's machine. They might toggle on narrator in Windows or Voiceover on macOS and proceed from there to make do without their preferred assistive technology.
>>
>> I primarily use Chrome as my web browser and have AccessiByeBy enabled to hide such overlays, only toggling that off to do things like looking at your site with the overlay in action.
>>
>> It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various forms of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the non-overlay site as to what they would like to see changed to make the site meet their needs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doug Hayman
>> IT Accessibility Coordinator
>> Information Technology
>> Olympic College
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> (360) 475-7632
>>
>>
>>
>> From: WebAIM-Forum< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf
>> Of Sandy Feldman
>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:34 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; Ryan E.
>> Benson< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!
>>
>> CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering!
>>
>>
>> A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.
>>
>> I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
>> Sandy
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url>> https%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.ed
>> u%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc30
>> 85%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL
>> jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C
>> &sdata=Vr0PZStHSb2HKdkQ7akwpVnCggo94P7knlWwCyhXK04%3D&reserved=0>
>> a11yready.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt
>> ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%
>> 7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA
>> wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&s
>> data=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:
>>
>> Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that
>> examples
>>
>> would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that
>> might
>>
>> be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a
>> case
>>
>> public.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ryan E. Benson
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Catherine, thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
>>
>> really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com
>>
>> a11yready.com<https://www.a11yready.com/><https://nam12.safelinks.pro
>> tection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7
>> C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089
>> 378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7
>> CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
>> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a8
>> 3k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Sandy,
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you seen these resources?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://overlayfactsheet.com/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outl
>> ook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverlayfactsheet.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdha
>> yman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab154
>> 4c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
>> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3
>> D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ru5RXmriDZj9ADS0MFEynXblPnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3
>> D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlay
>> s/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
>> accessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibility-news%2Fdo-away-with-overlays%2F
>> &data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3
>> a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7
>> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
>> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8Sj
>> kBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-acce
>> ssibility-overlays<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?ur
>> l=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialaccessibility.com%2Fblog%2Fthe-many-pitf
>> alls-of-accessibility-overlays&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7
>> C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%
>> 7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
>> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sd
>> ata=IiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Catherine
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Catherine Roy
>>
>> www.catherine-roy.net<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/
>> ?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catherine-roy.net%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40o
>> lympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad
>> 4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW
>> IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000
>> %7C%7C%7C&sdata=AweFinZyvTRm%2BWM0mNru4Yn1tnyNRj4g90M8hevWeHE%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan
>> Clark< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Sandy,
>>
>> That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/22, Sandy
>> Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples
>> from
>>
>>
>>
>> the site.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com
>>
>>
>>
>> a11yready.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
>>
>>
>>
>> Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
>>
>>
>>
>> don't suggest any company using them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/22, Sandy
>> Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> hey all,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
>>
>>
>>
>> imagemd.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm
>> hoping
>>
>>
>>
>> is
>>
>>
>>
>> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify
>> disabling
>>
>>
>>
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you so much!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com
>>
>>
>>
>> a11yready.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>> QA Automation Analyst Tech team
>>
>> Accessibility assistant
>>
>> CPACC
>>
>> cell: 410-446-7259
>>
>> email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>> 101 Village Blvd
>>
>> Princeton, NJ 08540
>>
>> SMBE & Minority Owned Business
>>
>> >>
>> >> visithttp://list.webaim.org/<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlo
>> ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40
>> olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1ba
>> d4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>> WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9wJuLgGV7gCvspwwKfcrtGbHqCAcsiJDhWnyLRCE0Do%3D&reser
>> ved=0>
>>
>> List archives
>> athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.prote
>> ction.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchive
>> s&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d
>> 3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%
>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZ
>> S%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >> visithttp://list.webaim.org/<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlo
>> ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40
>> olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1ba
>> d4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>> WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9wJuLgGV7gCvspwwKfcrtGbHqCAcsiJDhWnyLRCE0Do%3D&reser
>> ved=0>
>>
>> List archives
>> athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.prote
>> ction.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchive
>> s&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d
>> 3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%
>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZ
>> S%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >> visithttp://list.webaim.org/<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlo
>> ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40
>> olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1ba
>> d4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>> WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9wJuLgGV7gCvspwwKfcrtGbHqCAcsiJDhWnyLRCE0Do%3D&reser
>> ved=0>
>>
>> List archives
>> athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.prote
>> ction.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchive
>> s&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d
>> 3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%
>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZ
>> S%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> >> >> archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >
> > > archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: Greg Jellin
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 11:11AM
Subject: Re: -AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks for the clarification Andy. I misread your original statement.

Greg

On 5/26/2022 9:50 AM, Andy Andrews wrote:
> Hey Greg,
>
> I don't think it turns off the screen reader. However, since the overly automatically turns on when it detects a screen reader is being used, the user has to use their screen reader to navigate to the AccessiBe overlay if they want to turn it off and use their screen reader the way they prefer to use it. In all other cases the user can turn on one of the overlays by choice, not force.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Greg Jellin
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:38 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] - Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
>
> @Andy, does it really turn off some screen readers? Which ones? I just tested with JAWS and it didn't turn off. I'm not sure how they could access an application outside of the browser with JavaScript.
>
> "I agree with what Doug has mentioned. I would add that one of the many issues with this product is that it automatically detects a screen reader and turns the product on without any prompting from the user. Basically accessible is forcing them to use this product until they can navigate to turn it off. That is a good way to piss someone off enough to never come back to your site if they don't need to."
>
> On 5/26/2022 8:58 AM, Sandy Feldman wrote:
>> "It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various
>> forms of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the
>> non-overlay site as to what they would like to see changed to make the
>> site meet their needs."
>>
>> That's actually what happened when the site was developed. IMAGE Center clients got their say in how the site worked and I made changes so that people could use it the way they liked. And now this. I can't even.
>>
>> Thank you for helping to articulate the case against it. Wish us luck.
>> Sandy
>>
>> sandyfeldman.com <https://sandyfeldman.com> a11yready.com
>> <https://www.a11yready.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2022-05-26 11:48 a.m., Hayman, Douglass wrote:
>>> Sandy,
>>>
>>> Like Andy mentioned, something that interferes with someone's screen reader creates a bad experience.
>>>
>>> We wouldn't propose that a full time user of a customized power wheelchair leave that at the door of a grocery store and instead use that one-sized-suits-all motorized chair in the store. While the customized chair is suited to the person's body, may use head controlled or other navigation, could have left or right handed joystick and so on, screen reader users make choices on a whole variety of things. The idea of making it to this web site without a screen reader and then chancing upon âoh good, they offer a screen readerâ is far-fetched. And some of these overlay firms give you the choice to turn such features off or hide them.
>>>
>>> Those who rely upon screen readers would likely do something more system-wide if they were without their screen reader like in the case of using somebody else's machine. They might toggle on narrator in Windows or Voiceover on macOS and proceed from there to make do without their preferred assistive technology.
>>>
>>> I primarily use Chrome as my web browser and have AccessiByeBy enabled to hide such overlays, only toggling that off to do things like looking at your site with the overlay in action.
>>>
>>> It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various forms of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the non-overlay site as to what they would like to see changed to make the site meet their needs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Doug Hayman
>>> IT Accessibility Coordinator
>>> Information Technology
>>> Olympic College
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> (360) 475-7632
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: WebAIM-Forum< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf
>>> Of Sandy Feldman
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:34 AM
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; Ryan E.
>>> Benson< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!
>>>
>>> CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering!
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.
>>>
>>> I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
>>> Sandy
>>>
>>> sandyfeldman.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url>>> https%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.ed
>>> u%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc30
>>> 85%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL
>>> jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C
>>> &sdata=Vr0PZStHSb2HKdkQ7akwpVnCggo94P7knlWwCyhXK04%3D&reserved=0>
>>> a11yready.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt
>>> ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%
>>> 7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085
>>> %7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA
>>> wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&s
>>> data=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:
>>>
>>> Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that
>>> examples
>>>
>>> would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that
>>> might
>>>
>>> be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a
>>> case
>>>
>>> public.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Ryan E. Benson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Catherine, thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
>>>
>>> really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
>>>
>>> Sandy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sandyfeldman.com
>>>
>>> a11yready.com<https://www.a11yready.com/><https://nam12.safelinks.pro
>>> tection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.a11yready.com%2F&data%7
>>> C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089
>>> 378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7
>>> CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
>>> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gXNKFs85cYNe%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a8
>>> 3k2EBApKE%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Sandy,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you seen these resources?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://overlayfactsheet.com/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outl
>>> ook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverlayfactsheet.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cdha
>>> yman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab154
>>> 4c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
>>> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3
>>> D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ru5RXmriDZj9ADS0MFEynXblPnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3
>>> D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlay
>>> s/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
>>> accessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibility-news%2Fdo-away-with-overlays%2F
>>> &data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3
>>> a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7
>>> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
>>> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8Sj
>>> kBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-acce
>>> ssibility-overlays<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?ur
>>> l=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialaccessibility.com%2Fblog%2Fthe-many-pitf
>>> alls-of-accessibility-overlays&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7
>>> C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%
>>> 7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
>>> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sd
>>> ata=IiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Catherine
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Catherine Roy
>>>
>>> www.catherine-roy.net<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/
>>> ?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catherine-roy.net%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40o
>>> lympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad
>>> 4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW
>>> IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000
>>> %7C%7C%7C&sdata=AweFinZyvTRm%2BWM0mNru4Yn1tnyNRj4g90M8hevWeHE%3D&rese
>>> rved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan
>>> Clark< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Sandy,
>>>
>>> That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Nathan Clark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/26/22, Sandy
>>> Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples
>>> from
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the site.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sandy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sandyfeldman.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> a11yready.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> don't suggest any company using them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/26/22, Sandy
>>> Feldman< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hey all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> imagemd.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm
>>> hoping
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify
>>> disabling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you so much!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sandy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sandyfeldman.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> a11yready.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Nathan Clark
>>>
>>> QA Automation Analyst Tech team
>>>
>>> Accessibility assistant
>>>
>>> CPACC
>>>
>>> cell: 410-446-7259
>>>
>>> email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>> 101 Village Blvd
>>>
>>> Princeton, NJ 08540
>>>
>>> SMBE & Minority Owned Business
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> visithttp://list.webaim.org/<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlo
>>> ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40
>>> olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1ba
>>> d4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
>>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9wJuLgGV7gCvspwwKfcrtGbHqCAcsiJDhWnyLRCE0Do%3D&reser
>>> ved=0>
>>>
>>> List archives
>>> athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.prote
>>> ction.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchive
>>> s&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d
>>> 3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZ
>>> S%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> >>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> visithttp://list.webaim.org/<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlo
>>> ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40
>>> olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1ba
>>> d4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
>>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9wJuLgGV7gCvspwwKfcrtGbHqCAcsiJDhWnyLRCE0Do%3D&reser
>>> ved=0>
>>>
>>> List archives
>>> athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.prote
>>> ction.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchive
>>> s&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d
>>> 3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZ
>>> S%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> >>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> visithttp://list.webaim.org/<;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlo
>>> ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40
>>> olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1ba
>>> d4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
>>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9wJuLgGV7gCvspwwKfcrtGbHqCAcsiJDhWnyLRCE0Do%3D&reser
>>> ved=0>
>>>
>>> List archives
>>> athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;https://nam12.safelinks.prote
>>> ction.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchive
>>> s&data%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d
>>> 3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WD4UbKUu%2FQeJ9gUtAjGPyCZ
>>> S%2F8YIJgPankg69HzC%2FG4%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> >>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> >>> >>> archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >> >> >> archives athttp://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > > > > > > >

From: L Snider
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 11:54AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

I came across this page, which has many updates, if you haven't seen it
already:
https://adrianroselli.com/2020/06/accessibe-will-get-you-sued.html

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a
> JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.
>
> I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com
> a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:
>
> Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples
> would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that might
> be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case
> public.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>
> Catherine, thank you.
>
> I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
> really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
> Sandy
> sandyfeldman.coma11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/> <https://www.a11yready.com/>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:
>
> Hi Sandy,
>
> Have you seen these resources?
> https://overlayfactsheet.com/
> https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/
>
> https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays
>
> HTH,
> Catherine
>
> --
> Catherine Roywww.catherine-roy.net
>
> On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Dear Sandy,
> That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.
>
> Sincerely,
> Nathan Clark
>
>
> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from
>
> the site.
>
>
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com
> a11yready.com
>
>
>
>
> On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
>
>
> Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
>
> Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
>
> don't suggest any company using them.
>
>
> Nate
>
>
> On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>
> hey all,
>
>
> I'd really appreciate your help with this.
>
>
> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
> imagemd.org/
>
>
> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping
>
> is
>
> you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling
>
> it.
>
>
> Thank you so much!
>
>
> --
>
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com
> a11yready.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Clark
> QA Automation Analyst Tech team
> Accessibility assistant
> CPACC
> cell: 410-446-7259
> email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 101 Village Blvd
> Princeton, NJ 08540
> SMBE & Minority Owned Business
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 12:13PM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>that's a very good one. I'll pass it along and hope for the best.</p>
<p>Thank you!<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href="https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 1:54 p.m., L Snider
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+mtHwYx+NZadRyR8KH7THsDXUEHkhZkQm= = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I came across this page, which has many updates, if you haven't seen it
already:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://adrianroselli.com/2020/06/accessibe-will-get-you-sued.html">https://adrianroselli.com/2020/06/accessibe-will-get-you-sued.html</a>

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a
JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.

I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.a11yready.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a>

On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:

Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples
would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that might
be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case
public.

--
Ryan E. Benson

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

Catherine, thank you.

I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
Sandy
sandyfeldman.coma11yready.com <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.a11yready.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.a11yready.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a>

On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:

Hi Sandy,

Have you seen these resources?
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://overlayfactsheet.com/">https://overlayfactsheet.com/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/">https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays">https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays</a>

HTH,
Catherine

--
Catherine Roywww.catherine-roy.net

On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

Dear Sandy,
That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works.

Sincerely,
Nathan Clark

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples from

the site.

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com

On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:

Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National

Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they

don't suggest any company using them.

Nate

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
imagemd.org/

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping

is

you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling

it.

Thank you so much!

--

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com

--
Nathan Clark
QA Automation Analyst Tech team
Accessibility assistant
CPACC
cell: 410-446-7259
email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>
101 Village Blvd
Princeton, NJ 08540
SMBE & Minority Owned Business
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Marissa Goldsmith
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 1:29PM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

In Chrome, if I put on the Cognitive Disability Profile, the nested top
menu becomes almost unusable - I cannot get my mouse to go to the third
level of navigation without closing the entiere menu. If I have that
profile on AND I have my screen size zoomed in so that the menu goes to
mobile, the menu does not work at all. My default screen zoom because I
have aging eyes in 150%. For my daughter, who has a visual impairment, the
default is 200%.

If I use the overlay to increase the font-size, the third-tier of the menu
falls off the page.

So using the options in the overlay made the content less accessible than
if I just zoomed in and made a custom CSS (I do that for my child
sometimes).

Happy to do a video screenshare.

Marissa Goldsmith
www.marissagoldsmith.com
<https://www.marissagoldsmith.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=sigfile>

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 1:54 PM L Snider < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I came across this page, which has many updates, if you haven't seen it
> already:
> https://adrianroselli.com/2020/06/accessibe-will-get-you-sued.html
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a
> > JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.
> >
> > I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
> > Sandy
> >
> > sandyfeldman.com
> > a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>
> >
> >
> > On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:
> >
> > Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples
> > would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that
> might
> > be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case
> > public.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan E. Benson
> >
> > On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Catherine, thank you.
> >
> > I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
> > really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
> > Sandy
> > sandyfeldman.coma11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/> <
> https://www.a11yready.com/>
> >
> >
> > On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sandy,
> >
> > Have you seen these resources?
> > https://overlayfactsheet.com/
> > https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/
> >
> >
> https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays
> >
> > HTH,
> > Catherine
> >
> > --
> > Catherine Roywww.catherine-roy.net
> >
> > On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Sandy,
> > That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing
> works.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Nathan Clark
> >
> >
> > On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples
> from
> >
> > the site.
> >
> >
> > Sandy
> >
> > sandyfeldman.com
> > a11yready.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:
> >
> >
> > Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National
> >
> > Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they
> >
> > don't suggest any company using them.
> >
> >
> > Nate
> >
> >
> > On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > hey all,
> >
> >
> > I'd really appreciate your help with this.
> >
> >
> > A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
> > imagemd.org/
> >
> >
> > We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping
> >
> > is
> >
> > you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling
> >
> > it.
> >
> >
> > Thank you so much!
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sandy
> >
> > sandyfeldman.com
> > a11yready.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nathan Clark
> > QA Automation Analyst Tech team
> > Accessibility assistant
> > CPACC
> > cell: 410-446-7259
> > email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > 101 Village Blvd
> > Princeton, NJ 08540
> > SMBE & Minority Owned Business
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, May 26 2022 2:30PM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Thank you! Exactly what I'm looking for. Maybe even enough to get
that thing off the site.<br>
</p>
<p>Marissa, a video that <b>I</b> can share would be perfect. Would
you be ok with recording this? Much appreciated!<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href="https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 3:29 p.m., Marissa
Goldsmith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">In Chrome, if I put on the Cognitive Disability Profile, the nested top
menu becomes almost unusable - I cannot get my mouse to go to the third
level of navigation without closing the entiere menu. If I have that
profile on AND I have my screen size zoomed in so that the menu goes to
mobile, the menu does not work at all. My default screen zoom because I
have aging eyes in 150%. For my daughter, who has a visual impairment, the
default is 200%.

If I use the overlay to increase the font-size, the third-tier of the menu
falls off the page.

So using the options in the overlay made the content less accessible than
if I just zoomed in and made a custom CSS (I do that for my child
sometimes).

Happy to do a video screenshare.

Marissa Goldsmith
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.marissagoldsmith.com">www.marissagoldsmith.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.marissagoldsmith.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=sigfile"><https://www.marissagoldsmith.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=sigfile></a>

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 1:54 PM L Snider <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I came across this page, which has many updates, if you haven't seen it
already:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://adrianroselli.com/2020/06/accessibe-will-get-you-sued.html">https://adrianroselli.com/2020/06/accessibe-will-get-you-sued.html</a>

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a
JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.

I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.a11yready.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a>

On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:

Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples
would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">might
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case
public.

--
Ryan E. Benson

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">

Catherine, thank you.

I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I
really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.
Sandy
sandyfeldman.coma11yready.com <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.a11yready.com/"><https://www.a11yready.com/></a> <
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.a11yready.com/">https://www.a11yready.com/</a>>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">

On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:

Hi Sandy,

Have you seen these resources?
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://overlayfactsheet.com/">https://overlayfactsheet.com/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/">https://accessibleweb.com/web-accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/</a>

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays">https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
HTH,
Catherine

--
Catherine Roywww.catherine-roy.net

On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Dear Sandy,
That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">works.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Sincerely,
Nathan Clark

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">from
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
the site.

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com

On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:

Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National

Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they

don't suggest any company using them.

Nate

On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">

hey all,

I'd really appreciate your help with this.

A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
imagemd.org/

We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping

is

you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling

it.

Thank you so much!

--

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com
a11yready.com

--
Nathan Clark
QA Automation Analyst Tech team
Accessibility assistant
CPACC
cell: 410-446-7259
email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>
101 Village Blvd
Princeton, NJ 08540
SMBE & Minority Owned Business
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">List archives at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webaim.org/discussion/archives">http://webaim.org/discussion/archives<;/a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

From: Max Starkenburg
Date: Fri, May 27 2022 8:26AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Sandy,

Here's a concrete example of where I'm finding AccessiBe to make this site
less accessible: If I keyboard-navigate to the search icon (magnifying
glass button), and then hit Enter or Space to open the search input, a
second or two later (after I might have already started typing my query),
focus is stolen away from the search input. A little black dialog appears
at lower left reading "Popup panel. Press ESCAPE to close, navigate with
TAB. / [n] Seconds until closing. Playing to screen readers." Besides this
seeming terrible COGA-wise, pressing Escape not only does NOT close this
AccessiBe-generated dialog, it instead collapses the search input, once
again losing my focus (both keyboard-wise and metaphorically). (Small
caveat: it seems this behavior requires first that a check icon appear next
to the AccessiBe gear icon (I think supposedly indicating you've started
configuring it), but all that's required for that check icon to appear is
for me to Tab through the 3 "skip" links that AccessiBe generates.) I'm
seeing this happen across Safari, Mac Chrome, and Mac FF (though today I
also learned that the uBlock Origin add-on on FF was blocking AccessiBe
from loading ... nice!). Also, if I just wait out the "[n] Seconds until
closing", focus does not get returned to the input.

I wondered if this experience might be different with a screen reader on,
and though I'm not an SR user, I turned on VoiceOver and once again
navigated to the search input in Safari, and it seems no better. If
anything it seem worse, because there's no aural indication of why focus
was stolen; instead of AccessiBe "playing to screen readers" (as it claims
it's doing), VO just announces "You are currently in a banner, inside of
web content" (whereas if focus hadn't been stolen, it would instead be
announcing things about the text input).

Best of luck,

Max
--
Maxwell M. Starkenburg
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 10:12 AM Sandy Feldman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> hey all,
>
> I'd *really* appreciate your help with this.
>
> A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site
> imagemd.org/
>
> We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping
> is you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling
> it.
>
> Thank you *so much!*
> --
> Sandy
>
> sandyfeldman.com
> a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>
>
>
> > > > >

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Fri, May 27 2022 8:34AM
Subject: Re: AccessiBe! Help!!
← Previous message | No next message

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Max, thank you so much for taking the time to look at this. This
is a really usable example. Fingers crossed it's going to work!</p>
<p>Thank you, everybody on the list, for your support in a
frustrating situation.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href="https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-27 10:26 a.m., Max
Starkenburg wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+yoswsa2Yma1ugaFvydpwgbwYnM= = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi Sandy,

Here's a concrete example of where I'm finding AccessiBe to make this site
less accessible: If I keyboard-navigate to the search icon (magnifying
glass button), and then hit Enter or Space to open the search input, a
second or two later (after I might have already started typing my query),
focus is stolen away from the search input. A little black dialog appears
at lower left reading "Popup panel. Press ESCAPE to close, navigate with
TAB. / [n] Seconds until closing. Playing to screen readers." Besides this
seeming terrible COGA-wise, pressing Escape not only does NOT close this
AccessiBe-generated dialog, it instead collapses the search input, once
again losing my focus (both keyboard-wise and metaphorically). (Small
caveat: it seems this behavior requires first that a check icon appear next
to the AccessiBe gear icon (I think supposedly indicating you've started
configuring it), but all that's required for that check icon to appear is
for me to Tab through the 3 "skip" links that AccessiBe generates.) I'm
seeing this happen across Safari, Mac Chrome, and Mac FF (though today I
also learned that the uBlock Origin add-on on FF was blocking AccessiBe
from loading ... nice!). Also, if I just wait out the "[n] Seconds until
closing", focus does not get returned to the input.

I wondered if this experience might be different with a screen reader on,
and though I'm not an SR user, I turned on VoiceOver and once again
navigated to the search input in Safari, and it seems no better. If
anything it seem worse, because there's no aural indication of why focus
was stolen; instead of AccessiBe "playing to screen readers" (as it claims
it's doing), VO just announces "You are currently in a banner, inside of
web content" (whereas if focus hadn't been stolen, it would instead be
announcing things about the text input).

Best of luck,

Max
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>