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Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: Brandi Hess
Date: Tue, Sep 25 2001 2:28PM
Subject: Popup menus accessible?
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Hello all,
I'm working on a new design for our University Library. They would like
popup menus to appear when the cursor hovers (mouseover) above a link. They
would like the popup to list what type of information can be found by
clicking on that link. Even though the link on the page is part of a
graphic, the popup will be text based.
Is this compliant? Does this meet Priority One?
The Library site is currently working in this manner. The designer who
worked on their site last (which was several years ago) put this
functionality in place. Now that I'm supposed to redesign it, they want the
same functionality added to their new design.
Link to their current site.
http://www.usi.edu/library/library.htm
Thanks for your help!

---
Brandi Schwartz Hess
Graphic Designer, Web Services
University of Southern Indiana
http://www.usi.edu

From: Viral.Patel@exim.gov
Date: Tue, Sep 25 2001 3:00PM
Subject: Re: Popup menus accessible?
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Hi Brandi
I have also been working with my company's website and I came across the
same question.
I am not sure I have the answer or not, but let me tell you my views on
this.
According to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 on
http://www.w3.org/tr/1990/wai-webcontent-19990505/full-checklist.html,
its clear that the document should be read clearly without style sheets and
scripting (checkpoint 6.1), and if you check a page with Dymanic HTML Menus
(or pop-up menus) in a browser that doesnt support CSS or Scripting, you
will see all the links messed up. So a end user wont be able to see that
without Sctipt Enableing.
You can test in IE or NS, but disableing SCripting from Preferences, IE
shows some better results, but NS completly messes up the page without
Scripting.
You can also test this if you have InFocus 4.0 or later.
This are my views, I would like to hear from others too.
Thank you
Viral Patel



Brandi Hess
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > To: WebAIM forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent by: WebAIM forum cc: (bcc: Viral Patel/IMT/EXIMBANK)
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Subject: Popup menus accessible?
d.usu.edu>


09/25/01 04:22 PM
Please respond to
WebAIM forum



Hello all,
I'm working on a new design for our University Library. They would like
popup menus to appear when the cursor hovers (mouseover) above a link. They
would like the popup to list what type of information can be found by
clicking on that link. Even though the link on the page is part of a
graphic, the popup will be text based.
Is this compliant? Does this meet Priority One?
The Library site is currently working in this manner. The designer who
worked on their site last (which was several years ago) put this
functionality in place. Now that I'm supposed to redesign it, they want the
same functionality added to their new design.
Link to their current site.
http://www.usi.edu/library/library.htm
Thanks for your help!

---
Brandi Schwartz Hess
Graphic Designer, Web Services
University of Southern Indiana
http://www.usi.edu

From: Joel Ward
Date: Wed, Sep 26 2001 3:12PM
Subject: Popup menus accessible?
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Brandi,
Question for you, Brandi. Will the popup menu text include links or just
descriptive text, like in the current site?
If they include links, then....
My gut reaction is to say no, they aren't accessible. This is because they
are triggered by a device-dependent event, a mouseover.
I'm not sure if there is a way to make such functionality accessible to
assistive technology.
A way to make it accessible is to have alternate ways to get the same list
of links, e.g. a link to an HTML page with the same links.
An example can be seen at http://www.nsf.gov/ . Mouseover the menu at the
top to view the menu and then click on each of headings, like "Funding."
You can see the same links in the menu are also available on the page linked
through the heading. This way, users of AT can access the menu text without
actually viewing the popup menu.
Viral also has a good point. If a user turns off CSS and/or JavaScript, the
menus won't work at all. So what does a user do then? The popup menus
won't work for them. That situation can apply to anyone, not just users of
AT.
Joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandi Hess" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: Popup menus accessible?

> Hello all,
> I'm working on a new design for our University Library. They would like
> popup menus to appear when the cursor hovers (mouseover) above a link.
They
> would like the popup to list what type of information can be found by
> clicking on that link. Even though the link on the page is part of a
> graphic, the popup will be text based.
>
> Is this compliant? Does this meet Priority One?
>
> The Library site is currently working in this manner. The designer who
> worked on their site last (which was several years ago) put this
> functionality in place. Now that I'm supposed to redesign it, they want
the
> same functionality added to their new design.
>
> Link to their current site.
> http://www.usi.edu/library/library.htm
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
> ---
> Brandi Schwartz Hess
> Graphic Designer, Web Services
> University of Southern Indiana
> http://www.usi.edu
>
>
>

From: Viral.Patel@exim.gov
Date: Wed, Sep 26 2001 3:21PM
Subject: Re: Popup menus accessible?
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi
I also wanted to mention something alternative when a user is not able to
see links.
You can create a simple text page with all the links which are there on
menus(something like sitemap) and put a link to it on the NOSCRIPT section
of every page. So if a visitor cannot see links, he will see a message
something like this.
"Sorry, Your browser doesnt support scripting.
Please visit our sitemap to visit the page links."
What are your views for this.
Viral



Joel Ward
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > To: WebAIM forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent by: WebAIM forum cc: (bcc: Viral Patel/IMT/EXIMBANK)
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Subject: Re: Popup menus accessible?
d.usu.edu>


09/25/01 05:08 PM
Please respond to
WebAIM forum



Hi Brandi,
Question for you, Brandi. Will the popup menu text include links or just
descriptive text, like in the current site?
If they include links, then....
My gut reaction is to say no, they aren't accessible. This is because they
are triggered by a device-dependent event, a mouseover.
I'm not sure if there is a way to make such functionality accessible to
assistive technology.
A way to make it accessible is to have alternate ways to get the same list
of links, e.g. a link to an HTML page with the same links.
An example can be seen at http://www.nsf.gov/ . Mouseover the menu at the
top to view the menu and then click on each of headings, like "Funding."
You can see the same links in the menu are also available on the page
linked
through the heading. This way, users of AT can access the menu text
without
actually viewing the popup menu.
Viral also has a good point. If a user turns off CSS and/or JavaScript,
the
menus won't work at all. So what does a user do then? The popup menus
won't work for them. That situation can apply to anyone, not just users of
AT.
Joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandi Hess" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: Popup menus accessible?

> Hello all,
> I'm working on a new design for our University Library. They would like
> popup menus to appear when the cursor hovers (mouseover) above a link.
They
> would like the popup to list what type of information can be found by
> clicking on that link. Even though the link on the page is part of a
> graphic, the popup will be text based.
>
> Is this compliant? Does this meet Priority One?
>
> The Library site is currently working in this manner. The designer who
> worked on their site last (which was several years ago) put this
> functionality in place. Now that I'm supposed to redesign it, they want
the
> same functionality added to their new design.
>
> Link to their current site.
> http://www.usi.edu/library/library.htm
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
> ---
> Brandi Schwartz Hess
> Graphic Designer, Web Services
> University of Southern Indiana
> http://www.usi.edu
>
>
>

From: Joel Ward
Date: Tue, Sep 25 2001 3:26PM
Subject: Re: Popup menus accessible?
← Previous message | Next message →

I think that's a great idea, too! You could even do both, to cover all of
the bases.
One note: No matter what you do, make sure to update the alternative set of
links when the primary set changes. This can be cumbersome if the links
change often on a static HTML site. I guess it comes with the territory.
Dynamic sites can be easier to maintain though.
Does anyone have an easier way to make popup menus accessible?

----- Original Message -----
From: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Cc: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Popup menus accessible?

>
> Hi
>
> I also wanted to mention something alternative when a user is not able to
> see links.
> You can create a simple text page with all the links which are there on
> menus(something like sitemap) and put a link to it on the NOSCRIPT section
> of every page. So if a visitor cannot see links, he will see a message
> something like this.
>
> "Sorry, Your browser doesnt support scripting.
> Please visit our sitemap to visit the page links."
>
> What are your views for this.
> Viral
>
>
>
>
>
> Joel Ward
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > To: WebAIM forum
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent by: WebAIM forum cc: (bcc: Viral
Patel/IMT/EXIMBANK)
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Subject: Re: Popup
menus accessible?
> d.usu.edu>
>
>
> 09/25/01 05:08 PM
> Please respond to
> WebAIM forum
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Brandi,
>
> Question for you, Brandi. Will the popup menu text include links or just
> descriptive text, like in the current site?
>
> If they include links, then....
>
> My gut reaction is to say no, they aren't accessible. This is because
they
> are triggered by a device-dependent event, a mouseover.
>
> I'm not sure if there is a way to make such functionality accessible to
> assistive technology.
>
> A way to make it accessible is to have alternate ways to get the same list
> of links, e.g. a link to an HTML page with the same links.
>
> An example can be seen at http://www.nsf.gov/ . Mouseover the menu at the
> top to view the menu and then click on each of headings, like "Funding."
> You can see the same links in the menu are also available on the page
> linked
> through the heading. This way, users of AT can access the menu text
> without
> actually viewing the popup menu.
>
> Viral also has a good point. If a user turns off CSS and/or JavaScript,
> the
> menus won't work at all. So what does a user do then? The popup menus
> won't work for them. That situation can apply to anyone, not just users
of
> AT.
>
> Joel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandi Hess" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 4:22 PM
> Subject: Popup menus accessible?
>
>
> > Hello all,
> > I'm working on a new design for our University Library. They would
like
> > popup menus to appear when the cursor hovers (mouseover) above a link.
> They
> > would like the popup to list what type of information can be found by
> > clicking on that link. Even though the link on the page is part of a
> > graphic, the popup will be text based.
> >
> > Is this compliant? Does this meet Priority One?
> >
> > The Library site is currently working in this manner. The designer who
> > worked on their site last (which was several years ago) put this
> > functionality in place. Now that I'm supposed to redesign it, they want
> the
> > same functionality added to their new design.
> >
> > Link to their current site.
> > http://www.usi.edu/library/library.htm
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Brandi Schwartz Hess
> > Graphic Designer, Web Services
> > University of Southern Indiana
> > http://www.usi.edu
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Mark Rew
Date: Wed, Sep 26 2001 4:51AM
Subject: Re: Popup menus accessible?
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When our Website required pop up menus we had to add a link to an alternative
section for non-mouse users.Consider a dialog box, or a link to an anchor that
has each option from the pop up menus in a client side image map where all
area tags have a meaningful alt attribute.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandi Hess" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: Popup menus accessible?

> Hello all,
> I'm working on a new design for our University Library. They would like
> popup menus to appear when the cursor hovers (mouseover) above a link. They
> would like the popup to list what type of information can be found by
> clicking on that link. Even though the link on the page is part of a
> graphic, the popup will be text based.
>
> Is this compliant? Does this meet Priority One?
>
> The Library site is currently working in this manner. The designer who
> worked on their site last (which was several years ago) put this
> functionality in place. Now that I'm supposed to redesign it, they want the
> same functionality added to their new design.
>
> Link to their current site.
> http://www.usi.edu/library/library.htm
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
> ---
> Brandi Schwartz Hess
> Graphic Designer, Web Services
> University of Southern Indiana
> http://www.usi.edu
>
>
>

From: Leo Smith
Date: Thu, Sep 27 2001 6:46AM
Subject: library site accessibility
← Previous message | No next message

Brandi...
As already mentioned, there are implications for this design with
regards to accessibility. Under Priority one, the page should
function with JS turned off. In this case, the user is losing out on
content with JS off. Also, the page should function with CSS turned
off. The box with the text that appears when you mouseover a link
will not work with CSS off.
However, there is also the question of whether the text that you
include in the the popup box is accessible. As you say, it is text
based, but looking at the code, will someone using a screen reader
know what that text is referring to if it is enclosed within a JS event:
<a href="Libinfo.htm" onMouseOver="overlib('Employment, Hours,
Policies, Services and Staff', FIXX, 390, FIXY, 150)"
onMouseOut="nd()">
In other words, will the reader even interpret the text that is
enclosed within the JS event "onMouseOver".
Just some thoughts.
Leo.





Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774