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Thread: good example
Number of posts in this thread: 17 (In chronological order)
From: Patricia Murray
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 8:37AM
Subject: RE: good example
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I used to do a Jaws demo and found it easier to create my own very
simple pages. I used three pages which all looked identical:
1. Used bold and font tags in order to give the impression of headings
(In Jaws list headings and see nothing), tables for layout
(linearization of content), images without alt attributes.
2. Used structural heading tags; CSS for layout (show how change content
order using CSSP and thereby optimize graphical content for graphical
user and HTML sequence for JAWS user); images with alt attributes.
3. Frames (cos even if your designers don't use them, VLES do so users
will be confronted with them). Demo how JAWS users can only load 1 frame
at a time and can list frames and therefore sensible frame naming will
assist greatly.
Hope this helps, Trish
***********************************
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Nomis, University of Durham
http://www.nomisweb.co.uk/
0191 334 2680
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From: Zwack, Melanie
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 9:21AM
Subject: RE: good example
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Our site has a good example of skip navigation:
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/statelocal/index.html
If you mouse over to the right of the seal, you can see the skip navigation
(It's only 1 pixels wide sliver of the mast so it might be difficult to
see), and if you link on this it will bring you right below the buttons of
the main mast. This works well with a screen reader --
By the way, if you call Jaws (Freedom Scientific), they also may have some
ideas for you --
Melanie
From: Zwack, Melanie
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 9:40AM
Subject: RE: good example
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Can you give me an example of what you mean by that? Thanks!!
From: Zwack, Melanie
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 9:45AM
Subject: RE: good example
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Actually, I see that the Webaim.org site has the type of skip navigation you
are referring to --
Thanks!
From: Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 8:27AM
Subject: good example
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At the South Carolina Library Association conference, I am
moderating a session on accessibility in which we will have a blind user
demonstrating JAWS. Can anyone recommend an especially good library Web
site to use for the demonstration?
Thanks for the help,
--
Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Web Administrator
South Carolina State Library
http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
Telephone: 803.734.5831
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 1:04PM
Subject: RE: good example
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Here is a website that offers tree ways of skipping or going to the
navigation bar:
1. Through an internal
2. Use of headers
3. Accesskeys
Example:
http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/courses/2003-01-LIS350AR/examples/sect508-table/sect508-app.html
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From: Jeff Finlay
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 8:43AM
Subject: Re: good example
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> At the South Carolina Library Association conference, I am
> moderating a session on accessibility in which we will have a blind user
> demonstrating JAWS. Can anyone recommend an especially good library Web
> site to use for the demonstration?
Did you want to use one that shows JAWS working well or encountering
difficulties?
Jeff
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 9:34AM
Subject: RE: good example
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The skip navigation is needed by more than screen reader users. People
with physicaly disabilities using only the keyboard also would like to
skip navigation bars. Hiding the skip navigation feature does not help people with
physical disabilities.
Jon Gunderson
UIUC
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Zwack, Melanie wrote:
>
> Our site has a good example of skip navigation:
> http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/statelocal/index.html
>
> If you mouse over to the right of the seal, you can see the skip navigation
> (It's only 1 pixels wide sliver of the mast so it might be difficult to
> see), and if you link on this it will bring you right below the buttons of
> the main mast. This works well with a screen reader --
>
> By the way, if you call Jaws (Freedom Scientific), they also may have some
> ideas for you --
>
> Melanie
>
>
From: Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 10:04AM
Subject: Re: good example
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Melanie,
Someone that does not have good muscle control with an illness like Cerebral
Palsy can be unable to use a mouse. Having to tab through a number of links can
be time consuming and frustrating. The very act of hitting the tab key can be
very difficult also. I have a good friend with advanced arthritis. She can not
use a mouse and finds typing difficult and painful. She types with a pencil.
Being able to use a skip navigation link is very helpful to her.
Cheryl
"Zwack, Melanie" wrote:
> Can you give me an example of what you mean by that? Thanks!!
>
>
From: Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 9:12AM
Subject: Re: good example
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We are going to do both. Unfortunately, ones encountering problems are easy to
find. I do have some good examples but have not found one that I think is the
shining example. One thing I am looking for is a visual "skip navigation". It
seems that even the good sites are hiding that.
Cheryl
Jeff Finlay wrote:
> > At the South Carolina Library Association conference, I am
> > moderating a session on accessibility in which we will have a blind user
> > demonstrating JAWS. Can anyone recommend an especially good library Web
> > site to use for the demonstration?
>
> Did you want to use one that shows JAWS working well or encountering
> difficulties?
>
> Jeff
>
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> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
--
Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Web Administrator
South Carolina State Library
http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
Telephone: 803.734.5831
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From: Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 9:55AM
Subject: Re: good example
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That is why I am looking for a library site that displays the skip navigation. I have
some government sites but, as I am speaking to librarians, I wanted to use library
sites. My objective in this presentation is to gently persuade these librarians to
include accessibility features in their Web sites. I thought that having a blind person
demonstrate how he uses library sites would have more of an impact on the audience than
me just talking. Next time I think that I will try to also have someone with a physical
disability to show that we do not only have to consider vision impairments.
I decided to take the "gently persuade" route because lecturing and trying to use the
hard hammer approach sure does not seem to be working in my state. I am also really
stressing that accessibility is good usability and helps all users.
OK, sermon over. :-)
Cheryl
Jon Gunderson wrote:
> The skip navigation is needed by more than screen reader users. People
> with physicaly disabilities using only the keyboard also would like to
> skip navigation bars. Hiding the skip navigation feature does not help people with
> physical disabilities.
>
> Jon Gunderson
> UIUC
>
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Zwack, Melanie wrote:
>
> >
> > Our site has a good example of skip navigation:
> > http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/statelocal/index.html
> >
> > If you mouse over to the right of the seal, you can see the skip navigation
> > (It's only 1 pixels wide sliver of the mast so it might be difficult to
> > see), and if you link on this it will bring you right below the buttons of
> > the main mast. This works well with a screen reader --
> >
> > By the way, if you call Jaws (Freedom Scientific), they also may have some
> > ideas for you --
> >
> > Melanie
> >
> >
From: Stephanie Sullivan
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 10:26AM
Subject: Re: good example
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on 10/22/03 11:58 AM, Cheryl Kirkpatrick at = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
profoundly spewed forth their very articulate thoughts:
> Someone that does not have good muscle control with an illness like Cerebral
> Palsy can be unable to use a mouse. Having to tab through a number of links
> can
> be time consuming and frustrating. The very act of hitting the tab key can be
> very difficult also. I have a good friend with advanced arthritis.
Don't forget Carpal Tunnel folks... (which I imagine are increasing in
number with computers becoming more prevalent. :P)
Stephanie Sullivan
Contributing Author .: "Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004 Magic" :. New Riders
CommunityMX Team Member :: http://www.communitymx.com
Technical Editor .: "DreamweaverMX Killer Tips" :. New Riders
VioletSky Design :: http://www.violetsky.net
In the end, the only people who fail are those who do not try. To fail is a
natural consequence of trying. -- David Viscott
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From: Stephanie Sullivan
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 9:53AM
Subject: Re: good example
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on 10/22/03 11:07 AM, Cheryl Kirkpatrick at = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
profoundly spewed forth their very articulate thoughts:
> We are going to do both. Unfortunately, ones encountering problems are easy to
> find. I do have some good examples but have not found one that I think is the
> shining example. One thing I am looking for is a visual "skip navigation". It
> seems that even the good sites are hiding that.
Don't know if you're wanting just a library site or what... We've just
launched our new site at Community MX and we have a visual skip area. We
used tabindex to make those links appear first. (http://www.communitymx.com
)
Also, on a client's site we put visual skip links at the top of the
navigation (and didn't use tabindex)... If you want to use either of these
for testing... (http://www.kspope.com )
Stephanie Sullivan
Contributing Author .: "Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004 Magic" :. New Riders
CommunityMX Team Member :: http://www.communitymx.com
Technical Editor .: "DreamweaverMX Killer Tips" :. New Riders
VioletSky Design :: http://www.violetsky.net
"Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the
world needs is people who have come alive." ~ Howard Thurman
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From: Stephanie Sullivan
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 10:02AM
Subject: Re: good example
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on 10/22/03 11:16 AM, Zwack, Melanie at = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = profoundly
spewed forth their very articulate thoughts:
> Our site has a good example of skip navigation:
> http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/statelocal/index.html
This one won't work with tabbing through... I get the seal and then the
Alabama link. We just had a huge discussion about this on the CSS-d list...
There are a variety of methods that don't work well for both tabbing and
screen readers...
I settled on one that I've written about in a book project that's a blend of
two other people's methods.
Use an AP div set to 0height and 0width... Overflow must be hidden. Then,
set your a:hover, a:active, a:focus to show the AP div with an "auto" height
and width with overflow shown... I also made lots of little things that made
it look pretty when it appears like background color and border and such. It
worked well in everything Moz based, IE6 (important since JAWS bases it's
rendering on that) and the only real failure was in Opera (and Safari which
doesn't support tabbed navigation yet)... But my guess is that people that
need assistive technology do not use things like Opera and Safari since
they're have such limited support.
Anyway... That's the best thing I've found to support both tabbing and
screen readers so far.... Besides just showing the links (which is what my
previous email of examples do).
Stephanie Sullivan
Contributing Author .: "Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004 Magic" :. New Riders
CommunityMX Team Member :: http://www.communitymx.com
Technical Editor .: "DreamweaverMX Killer Tips" :. New Riders
VioletSky Design :: http://www.violetsky.net
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research , would
it?"-- Albert Einstein
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From: Seth Rothberg
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 11:38AM
Subject: Re: good example
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Hi Cheryl,
Use our site if you want. http://www.joneslibrary.org. I think it works pretty
well for someone using JAWS. If not, please do let me know.
On Wednesday 22 October 2003 10:21 am, Cheryl Kirkpatrick wrote:
> At the South Carolina Library Association conference, I am
> moderating a session on accessibility in which we will have a blind user
>
> demonstrating JAWS. Can anyone recommend an especially good library Web
> site to use for the demonstration?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> --
> Cheryl Kirkpatrick
> Web Administrator
> South Carolina State Library
> http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
> Telephone: 803.734.5831
>
>
>
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> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
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From: Michael D. Roush
Date: Wed, Oct 22 2003 2:31PM
Subject: Re: good example
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Might I suggest the Library of Congress website? www.loc.gov
With the US Federal section 508 regulations, if any site should be a leader
in compliance, it should be theirs. I haven't formally tested it myself,
but I think it would be a good one to check into.
From their website:
"We believe that our Web site is compliant with Section 508 and W3C
accessibility design guidelines. Older, legacy pages are in the process of
being upgraded for compliance, and the Library of Congress is making every
effort to make its online collections and information available to all
members of the public. "
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheryl Kirkpatrick" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAim Discussion" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: good example
> At the South Carolina Library Association conference, I am
> moderating a session on accessibility in which we will have a blind user
> demonstrating JAWS. Can anyone recommend an especially good library Web
> site to use for the demonstration?
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From: Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Date: Fri, Oct 24 2003 11:29AM
Subject: Re: good example
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I want to thank everyone who sent URLs of good examples. We ended up using the
Library of Congress site (even though it does not have a visual "skip
navigation" link) but I kept a list of the other URLs for future use.
I also want to thank everyone in general for sharing their expertise. This is
the best discussion list that I am on. I learn something almost daily just by
taking a few minutes to read the postings!
Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Web Administrator
South Carolina State Library
http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
Telephone: 803.734.5831
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