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Thread: PDF for accessability
Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)
From: Cathy Mar
Date: Thu, Mar 25 2004 11:53AM
Subject: PDF for accessability
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We have upgraded our software to Acrobat 6.0. Does anyone have a step
by step process to create an accessible PDF tagged doc and saving it for
other versions of Acrobat readers? We've run into problems of using
paper capture then running accessability checker. Once we've viewed
the tagged document and fixed the images tags, we will run it through
the accessibility checker again. It will say that there is nothing
wrong with the document. The last step is to "reduce file size" for
version 5.0 or later. Are we missing something?
Also, having problems with netscape 4.79 using Acrobat plug in. Works
on windows 2000/Netscape 4.79/Acrobat 5.0. Works on some machines and
others the page is blank...We also test to version 4.0 readers.
Any information will greatly be appreciated.
Cath
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From: julian.rickards@ndm.gov.on.ca
Date: Thu, Mar 25 2004 12:07PM
Subject: RE: PDF for accessability
← Previous message | Next message →
At http://jrickards.ca/downloads/accessible_pdfs.zip, I have created a
tutorial (in Word within the zip file) on my methods, tips, tricks and
techniques on how I create an Accessible PDF. We use Acrobat 5 at work so
where there may be differences between Acrobat 5 & 6: if so, my document
does not account for them.
Acrobat 6, in addition to other features, includes new image compression
routines that were not available to Acrobat/Acrobat Reader 5. This last step
probably is asking you if you wish to accomodate Acrobat Reader 5 users by
using compression routines that may be read by Acrobat/Acrobat Reader 5. I
don't think it is an accessibility issue per se.
HTH,
Jules
---------------------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards
Digital Publications Distribution Coordinator
Publications Services Section
Ontario Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
Phone: (705) 670-5608
Fax: (705) 670-5690
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cathy Mar [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:36 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: PDF for accessability
>
>
> We have upgraded our software to Acrobat 6.0. Does anyone
> have a step
> by step process to create an accessible PDF tagged doc and
> saving it for
> other versions of Acrobat readers? We've run into problems of using
> paper capture then running accessability checker. Once we've viewed
> the tagged document and fixed the images tags, we will run it through
> the accessibility checker again. It will say that there is nothing
> wrong with the document. The last step is to "reduce file size" for
> version 5.0 or later. Are we missing something?
>
> Also, having problems with netscape 4.79 using Acrobat plug
> in. Works
> on windows 2000/Netscape 4.79/Acrobat 5.0. Works on some machines and
> others the page is blank...We also test to version 4.0 readers.
>
> Any information will greatly be appreciated.
>
> Cath
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents
> may contain
> confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is
> solely for the
> use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception,
> review, use
> or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
> communication.
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
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From: Cathy Mar
Date: Thu, Mar 25 2004 12:44PM
Subject: RE: PDF for accessability
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks Jules for the reference. This will help us review the process in
Word documents. We also have clients using WordPerfect 8.0 and up
creating PDF's. Is there a better way to create this in 6.0 to make
accessible documents in WordPerfect? Anyone...
Much appreciated.
Cath
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 3/25/2004 10:52:48 AM >>>
At http://jrickards.ca/downloads/accessible_pdfs.zip, I have created a
tutorial (in Word within the zip file) on my methods, tips, tricks and
techniques on how I create an Accessible PDF. We use Acrobat 5 at work
so
where there may be differences between Acrobat 5 & 6: if so, my
document
does not account for them.
Acrobat 6, in addition to other features, includes new image
compression
routines that were not available to Acrobat/Acrobat Reader 5. This last
step
probably is asking you if you wish to accomodate Acrobat Reader 5 users
by
using compression routines that may be read by Acrobat/Acrobat Reader
5. I
don't think it is an accessibility issue per se.
HTH,
Jules
---------------------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards
Digital Publications Distribution Coordinator
Publications Services Section
Ontario Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
Phone: (705) 670-5608
Fax: (705) 670-5690
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cathy Mar [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:36 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: PDF for accessability
>
>
> We have upgraded our software to Acrobat 6.0. Does anyone
> have a step
> by step process to create an accessible PDF tagged doc and
> saving it for
> other versions of Acrobat readers? We've run into problems of using
> paper capture then running accessability checker. Once we've
viewed
> the tagged document and fixed the images tags, we will run it
through
> the accessibility checker again. It will say that there is nothing
> wrong with the document. The last step is to "reduce file size"
for
> version 5.0 or later. Are we missing something?
>
> Also, having problems with netscape 4.79 using Acrobat plug
> in. Works
> on windows 2000/Netscape 4.79/Acrobat 5.0. Works on some machines
and
> others the page is blank...We also test to version 4.0 readers.
>
> Any information will greatly be appreciated.
>
> Cath
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents
> may contain
> confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is
> solely for the
> use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception,
> review, use
> or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws
including
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the
intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
> communication.
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the
use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use
or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
communication.
----
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From: julian.rickards@ndm.gov.on.ca
Date: Thu, Mar 25 2004 1:12PM
Subject: RE: PDF for accessability
← Previous message | Next message →
I haven't tested with the latest version of WordPerfect, my sons' new Dell
computer came with WordPerfect 11, 12 may be out soon or even now - I can
play with it tonight and if there is any improvements over my copy of
WordPerfect 10, I can add it to this list.
However, in October 2002, I went to a Adobe workshop on creating Accessible
PDFs. The Adobe representatives told us that because Corel sees Adobe as a
direct competitor (CorelDRAW/Photo Paint vs. Adobe Illustrator/PhotoShop),
Corel wasn't receptive to Adobe's offers to work with them to help
WordPerfect users create Accessible PDFs directly from the application.
WordPerfect has a "Save as PDF" option which precludes the need for
WordPerfect users to purchase Acrobat if all they need is PDF creation but
it doesn't create Accessible PDFs.
WordPerfect is not the only application in this same boat, there are others
including Lotus WordPro and MS Word 97 and earlier. The issue is not the
ability to create a PDF but to preserve the structure of the document. PDF
1.4 is the first version of the PDF standard which allows tagging. The
tagging in PDF 1.4 (and PDF 1.5 when it is available if not already) marks
up headings as headings, table cells as table cells, etc. not unlike HTML.
Although virtually all word processing software have these structures
internally within the application and the documents, currently, only MS Word
2000 and up can send this document structure information to Acrobat via the
PDFMaker macro (other Adobe products such as InDesign, PageMaker and
Framemaker can do this too). However, if you use MS Word 2000 (or up) and
print to Distiller instead of using the PDFMaker macro, no PDF tags are
created: the styles are preserved but the document structure is lost.
It is possible to take a PDF (PDF 1.4 version) from WordPerfect and in
Acrobat 5 or 6, tag it with the document structure but that can be a long
and labourious (and torturous) process, even more so for long documents.
Each block must be selected and tagged with the appropriate document
structure.
The simplest method is to save the WordPerfect document in Word .doc format
and then open the Word document, check the document structure and then make
the PDF from Word 2000 and up.
---------------------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards
Digital Publications Distribution Coordinator
Publications Services Section
Ontario Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
Phone: (705) 670-5608
Fax: (705) 670-5690
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cathy Mar [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:22 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: RE: PDF for accessability
>
>
> Thanks Jules for the reference. This will help us review the
> process in
> Word documents. We also have clients using WordPerfect 8.0 and up
> creating PDF's. Is there a better way to create this in 6.0 to make
> accessible documents in WordPerfect? Anyone...
>
> Much appreciated.
> Cath
>
> >>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 3/25/2004 10:52:48 AM >>>
> At http://jrickards.ca/downloads/accessible_pdfs.zip, I have created a
> tutorial (in Word within the zip file) on my methods, tips, tricks and
> techniques on how I create an Accessible PDF. We use Acrobat 5 at work
> so
> where there may be differences between Acrobat 5 & 6: if so, my
> document
> does not account for them.
>
> Acrobat 6, in addition to other features, includes new image
> compression
> routines that were not available to Acrobat/Acrobat Reader 5.
> This last
> step
> probably is asking you if you wish to accomodate Acrobat
> Reader 5 users
> by
> using compression routines that may be read by Acrobat/Acrobat Reader
> 5. I
> don't think it is an accessibility issue per se.
>
> HTH,
>
> Jules
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Julian Rickards
> Digital Publications Distribution Coordinator
> Publications Services Section
> Ontario Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
> Phone: (705) 670-5608
> Fax: (705) 670-5690
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cathy Mar [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:36 PM
> > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > Subject: PDF for accessability
> >
> >
> > We have upgraded our software to Acrobat 6.0. Does anyone
> > have a step
> > by step process to create an accessible PDF tagged doc and
> > saving it for
> > other versions of Acrobat readers? We've run into problems of using
> > paper capture then running accessability checker. Once we've
> viewed
> > the tagged document and fixed the images tags, we will run it
> through
> > the accessibility checker again. It will say that there is nothing
> > wrong with the document. The last step is to "reduce file size"
> for
> > version 5.0 or later. Are we missing something?
> >
> > Also, having problems with netscape 4.79 using Acrobat plug
> > in. Works
> > on windows 2000/Netscape 4.79/Acrobat 5.0. Works on some machines
> and
> > others the page is blank...We also test to version 4.0 readers.
> >
> > Any information will greatly be appreciated.
> >
> > Cath
> >
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents
> > may contain
> > confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is
> > solely for the
> > use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception,
> > review, use
> > or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws
> including
> > the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the
> intended
> > recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
> > communication.
> >
> >
> > ----
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents
> may contain
> confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is
> solely for the
> use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception,
> review, use
> or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
> communication.
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Cathy Mar
Date: Thu, Mar 25 2004 3:04PM
Subject: RE: PDF for accessability
← Previous message | Next message →
You are right about the various software but the WordPerfect 8.0 is a
nightmare. To tag it with the document structure is a long
and laborious (and torturous) process, even more so for long documents.
I know that Microsoft and Adobe are totally compatible but the other
software....yikes. Do you only test in Internet Explorer? Most of our
clients are using Netscape v 4.79. Now you know my dilemma.
Thanks for all your feedback. It is very much appreciated and I will
share it will our staff.
Cath
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 3/25/2004 12:00:03 PM >>>
I haven't tested with the latest version of WordPerfect, my sons' new
Dell
computer came with WordPerfect 11, 12 may be out soon or even now - I
can
play with it tonight and if there is any improvements over my copy of
WordPerfect 10, I can add it to this list.
However, in October 2002, I went to a Adobe workshop on creating
Accessible
PDFs. The Adobe representatives told us that because Corel sees Adobe
as a
direct competitor (CorelDRAW/Photo Paint vs. Adobe
Illustrator/PhotoShop),
Corel wasn't receptive to Adobe's offers to work with them to help
WordPerfect users create Accessible PDFs directly from the
application.
WordPerfect has a "Save as PDF" option which precludes the need for
WordPerfect users to purchase Acrobat if all they need is PDF creation
but
it doesn't create Accessible PDFs.
WordPerfect is not the only application in this same boat, there are
others
including Lotus WordPro and MS Word 97 and earlier. The issue is not
the
ability to create a PDF but to preserve the structure of the document.
PDF
1.4 is the first version of the PDF standard which allows tagging. The
tagging in PDF 1.4 (and PDF 1.5 when it is available if not already)
marks
up headings as headings, table cells as table cells, etc. not unlike
HTML.
Although virtually all word processing software have these structures
internally within the application and the documents, currently, only MS
Word
2000 and up can send this document structure information to Acrobat via
the
PDFMaker macro (other Adobe products such as InDesign, PageMaker and
Framemaker can do this too). However, if you use MS Word 2000 (or up)
and
print to Distiller instead of using the PDFMaker macro, no PDF tags
are
created: the styles are preserved but the document structure is lost.
It is possible to take a PDF (PDF 1.4 version) from WordPerfect and in
Acrobat 5 or 6, tag it with the document structure but that can be a
long
and labourious (and torturous) process, even more so for long
documents.
Each block must be selected and tagged with the appropriate document
structure.
The simplest method is to save the WordPerfect document in Word .doc
format
and then open the Word document, check the document structure and then
make
the PDF from Word 2000 and up.
---------------------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards
Digital Publications Distribution Coordinator
Publications Services Section
Ontario Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
Phone: (705) 670-5608
Fax: (705) 670-5690
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cathy Mar [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:22 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: RE: PDF for accessability
>
>
> Thanks Jules for the reference. This will help us review the
> process in
> Word documents. We also have clients using WordPerfect 8.0 and up
> creating PDF's. Is there a better way to create this in 6.0 to
make
> accessible documents in WordPerfect? Anyone...
>
> Much appreciated.
> Cath
>
> >>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 3/25/2004 10:52:48 AM >>>
> At http://jrickards.ca/downloads/accessible_pdfs.zip, I have created
a
> tutorial (in Word within the zip file) on my methods, tips, tricks
and
> techniques on how I create an Accessible PDF. We use Acrobat 5 at
work
> so
> where there may be differences between Acrobat 5 & 6: if so, my
> document
> does not account for them.
>
> Acrobat 6, in addition to other features, includes new image
> compression
> routines that were not available to Acrobat/Acrobat Reader 5.
> This last
> step
> probably is asking you if you wish to accomodate Acrobat
> Reader 5 users
> by
> using compression routines that may be read by Acrobat/Acrobat
Reader
> 5. I
> don't think it is an accessibility issue per se.
>
> HTH,
>
> Jules
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Julian Rickards
> Digital Publications Distribution Coordinator
> Publications Services Section
> Ontario Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
> Phone: (705) 670-5608
> Fax: (705) 670-5690
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cathy Mar [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:36 PM
> > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > Subject: PDF for accessability
> >
> >
> > We have upgraded our software to Acrobat 6.0. Does anyone
> > have a step
> > by step process to create an accessible PDF tagged doc and
> > saving it for
> > other versions of Acrobat readers? We've run into problems of
using
> > paper capture then running accessability checker. Once we've
> viewed
> > the tagged document and fixed the images tags, we will run it
> through
> > the accessibility checker again. It will say that there is
nothing
> > wrong with the document. The last step is to "reduce file size"
> for
> > version 5.0 or later. Are we missing something?
> >
> > Also, having problems with netscape 4.79 using Acrobat plug
> > in. Works
> > on windows 2000/Netscape 4.79/Acrobat 5.0. Works on some machines
> and
> > others the page is blank...We also test to version 4.0 readers.
> >
> > Any information will greatly be appreciated.
> >
> > Cath
> >
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents
> > may contain
> > confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is
> > solely for the
> > use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception,
> > review, use
> > or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws
> including
> > the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the
> intended
> > recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
> > communication.
> >
> >
> > ----
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents
> may contain
> confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is
> solely for the
> use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception,
> review, use
> or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws
including
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the
intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
> communication.
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the
use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use
or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
communication.
----
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visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: julian.rickards@ndm.gov.on.ca
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2004 7:05AM
Subject: RE: PDF for accessability
← Previous message | No next message
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> You are right about the various software but the WordPerfect 8.0 is a
> nightmare. To tag it with the document structure is a long
> and laborious (and torturous) process, even more so for long
> documents.
> I know that Microsoft and Adobe are totally compatible but the other
> software....yikes. Do you only test in Internet Explorer?
> Most of our
> clients are using Netscape v 4.79. Now you know my dilemma.
No, I don't test in IE because it is not a browser function but rather an
Acrobat/Acrobat Reader function. Ok, wait a sec, perhaps you are referring
to JAWS which works as a layer on top of IE (or any other Windows app). No,
I haven't tested in JAWS, I test in Acrobat using the Check Accessibility
function. My assumption is that if Acrobat says the PDF is accessible, then
that is the best I can do. If JAWS or other screen reading app still cannot
read the PDF, then I cannot fix it and it is an issue with Acrobat, not my
efforts.
I don't create Word forms at work so I don't have any experience with making
them accessible - I should over the next couple of months train myself. I
don't know how well JAWS works with NN4.x - if your clients are using that
version of NN and JAWS is not working for them, then they should upgrade. I
know that is a statement that many of us don't like to say but if they
require a software to work for them and NN is interfering, then it is their
responsibility to resolve the issue.
In my work as an accessible web designer, I don't cater to any browsers but
follow the W3C WAI Guidelines and Checkpoints and other recommendations and
suggestions of other accessible web designers. If my site is accessible but
some users can't use it because of their software issues, that is not my
problem and neither should it be yours.
Perhaps you should consider not using PDF at all if your clients still have
problems with accessible PDFs - perhaps you should create HTML pages instead
and PDFs for those who *can* use them as an alternate format.
As I said, if you can take the WordPerfect documents, save them in Word
format and then PDF them in Word 2000 or later, then you will be fine. At
work, our ministry is standardized on Office 97 so in order for me to
produce accessible PDFs, I was authorized to purchase and use Word 2002 (the
current version at the time) - the upgrade cost was only $125 Cdn, I suspect
that you may be able to get Word 2003 for a similar price - you only need
one copy for the person creating the accessible PDFs - that is my role for a
number of departments in our ministry (small ministry, ~250 people).
Let me know if I can be of any more assistance (one gov't employee to
another).
HTH,
Jules
---------------------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards
Digital Publications Distribution Coordinator
Publications Services Section
Ontario Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
Phone: (705) 670-5608
Fax: (705) 670-5690
----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/