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Thread: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?

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Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)

From: Patrick Burke
Date: Thu, Jul 05 2007 2:10PM
Subject: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
No previous message | Next message →

Hi everyone,

Do any of the automated testing tools check PDF files?

Or is the Adobe "Read Out Loud" command a simple & effective test of
the level of accessibility? (This would also give some feedback on
forms & tables, at least to someone who knew what they were listening for.)

Then there's always the Jaws demo & the "This document appears to be
empty" test. ...

We have a lot of non-technical people generating PDFs, so I'm looking
for any quick & reasonably good test they can run to get some
verification that they're using the creation tools correctly.
Thanks much for any thoughts,

Patrick (This brain appears to be empty.)


--
Patrick J. Burke

Coordinator
UCLA Disabilities &
Computing Program

Phone: 310 206-6004
E-mail: burke <at> ucla. edu

From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Thu, Jul 05 2007 3:10PM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

Patrick,

Acrobat Reader has an Accessibility Quick Check feature and Acrobat has
an Accessibility Checking feature that goes more in depth. I have found
the full accessibility check in Acrobat to provide useful information.
The Quick check does not provide as much information, but it can provide
some insight on the document's accessibility.

Depending on the formats of the original documents, I have found it
useful to address most of the potential problems by teaching people how
to design the original document. For example, using styles in Microsoft
Word goes a long way toward producing an accessible PDF document.

I hope this information helps.

Tim


>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
>Patrick Burke
>Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:09 PM
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>Do any of the automated testing tools check PDF files?
>
>Or is the Adobe "Read Out Loud" command a simple & effective test of
>the level of accessibility? (This would also give some feedback on
>forms & tables, at least to someone who knew what they were
>listening for.)
>
>Then there's always the Jaws demo & the "This document appears to be
>empty" test. ...
>
>We have a lot of non-technical people generating PDFs, so I'm looking
>for any quick & reasonably good test they can run to get some
>verification that they're using the creation tools correctly.
>Thanks much for any thoughts,
>
>Patrick (This brain appears to be empty.)
>
>
>--
>Patrick J. Burke
>
>Coordinator
>UCLA Disabilities &
>Computing Program
>
>Phone: 310 206-6004
>E-mail: burke <at> ucla. edu
>
>

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Jul 05 2007 3:20PM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

To add to Tim's comment - Acrobat includes a batch checking feature, so
that it can check many files quickly.

Also, NetCentric has a tool called CommonLook that provides testing and
also mediates the repair of many issues.

AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Tim Harshbarger
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:07 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
>
> Patrick,
>
> Acrobat Reader has an Accessibility Quick Check feature and
> Acrobat has an Accessibility Checking feature that goes more
> in depth. I have found the full accessibility check in
> Acrobat to provide useful information.
> The Quick check does not provide as much information, but it
> can provide some insight on the document's accessibility.
>
> Depending on the formats of the original documents, I have
> found it useful to address most of the potential problems by
> teaching people how to design the original document. For
> example, using styles in Microsoft Word goes a long way
> toward producing an accessible PDF document.
>
> I hope this information helps.
>
> Tim
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick
> >Burke
> >Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:09 PM
> >To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >Subject: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
> >
> >Hi everyone,
> >
> >Do any of the automated testing tools check PDF files?
> >
> >Or is the Adobe "Read Out Loud" command a simple & effective test of
> >the level of accessibility? (This would also give some feedback on
> >forms & tables, at least to someone who knew what they were
> listening
> >for.)
> >
> >Then there's always the Jaws demo & the "This document appears to be
> >empty" test. ...
> >
> >We have a lot of non-technical people generating PDFs, so
> I'm looking
> >for any quick & reasonably good test they can run to get some
> >verification that they're using the creation tools correctly.
> >Thanks much for any thoughts,
> >
> >Patrick (This brain appears to be empty.)
> >
> >
> >--
> >Patrick J. Burke
> >
> >Coordinator
> >UCLA Disabilities &
> >Computing Program
> >
> >Phone: 310 206-6004
> >E-mail: burke <at> ucla. edu
> >
> >

From: Patrick Burke
Date: Thu, Jul 05 2007 5:30PM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks Tim & Andrew. This is extremely helpful.

Patrick

At 02:11 PM 7/5/2007, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
>To add to Tim's comment - Acrobat includes a batch checking feature, so
>that it can check many files quickly.
>
>Also, NetCentric has a tool called CommonLook that provides testing and
>also mediates the repair of many issues.
>
>AWK
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> > Tim Harshbarger
> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:07 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
> >
> > Patrick,
> >
> > Acrobat Reader has an Accessibility Quick Check feature and
> > Acrobat has an Accessibility Checking feature that goes more
> > in depth. I have found the full accessibility check in
> > Acrobat to provide useful information.
> > The Quick check does not provide as much information, but it
> > can provide some insight on the document's accessibility.
> >
> > Depending on the formats of the original documents, I have
> > found it useful to address most of the potential problems by
> > teaching people how to design the original document. For
> > example, using styles in Microsoft Word goes a long way
> > toward producing an accessible PDF document.
> >
> > I hope this information helps.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >


--
Patrick J. Burke

Coordinator
UCLA Disabilities &
Computing Program

Phone: 310 206-6004
E-mail: burke <at> ucla. edu

From: smithj7
Date: Fri, Jul 06 2007 11:30PM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

The read out loud feature isn't an effective test of the level of
accessiblity. We often test with speech. The AT (JAWS for example) is
reading a different layer of the Adobe document than the read out loud
feature. (there is what you see, the tag level, and the content level)

Note I use both the accessiblity checker for Adobe 7 and Adobe 8 - 8
ALWAYS indicates a problem if I select the 508 aspect of the checker. I
also have been introduced to Netentric. We are purchasing two licenses.


An inherent adobe feature I discovered is the check box with forms. In
html there are radio buttons. In Adobe radio buttons seem to only read
the RANGE, can't find a way to have it read individual (e.g. reads
"colors" for each item rather than red, blue, pink). So one must use a
check box... Meaning more than one can be checked, following rules.



-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick Burke
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:09 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?


Hi everyone,

Do any of the automated testing tools check PDF files?

Or is the Adobe "Read Out Loud" command a simple & effective test of
the level of accessibility? (This would also give some feedback on
forms & tables, at least to someone who knew what they were listening
for.)

Then there's always the Jaws demo & the "This document appears to be
empty" test. ...

We have a lot of non-technical people generating PDFs, so I'm looking
for any quick & reasonably good test they can run to get some
verification that they're using the creation tools correctly. Thanks
much for any thoughts,

Patrick (This brain appears to be empty.)


--
Patrick J. Burke

Coordinator
UCLA Disabilities &
Computing Program

Phone: 310 206-6004
E-mail: burke <at> ucla. edu

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Mon, Jul 09 2007 5:20AM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

Can you clarify what you mean with regard to the checkboxes? I'm not
sure what you mean when you say "adobe radio buttons seem to only read
the range"?

Thanks,
AWK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of smithj7
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:28 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
>
> The read out loud feature isn't an effective test of the
> level of accessiblity. We often test with speech. The AT
> (JAWS for example) is reading a different layer of the Adobe
> document than the read out loud feature. (there is what you
> see, the tag level, and the content level)
>
> Note I use both the accessiblity checker for Adobe 7 and
> Adobe 8 - 8 ALWAYS indicates a problem if I select the 508
> aspect of the checker. I also have been introduced to
> Netentric. We are purchasing two licenses.
>
>
> An inherent adobe feature I discovered is the check box with
> forms. In html there are radio buttons. In Adobe radio
> buttons seem to only read the RANGE, can't find a way to have
> it read individual (e.g. reads "colors" for each item rather
> than red, blue, pink). So one must use a check box...
> Meaning more than one can be checked, following rules.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Patrick Burke
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:09 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Do any of the automated testing tools check PDF files?
>
> Or is the Adobe "Read Out Loud" command a simple & effective
> test of the level of accessibility? (This would also give
> some feedback on forms & tables, at least to someone who knew
> what they were listening
> for.)
>
> Then there's always the Jaws demo & the "This document
> appears to be empty" test. ...
>
> We have a lot of non-technical people generating PDFs, so I'm
> looking for any quick & reasonably good test they can run to
> get some verification that they're using the creation tools
> correctly. Thanks much for any thoughts,
>
> Patrick (This brain appears to be empty.)
>
>
> --
> Patrick J. Burke
>
> Coordinator
> UCLA Disabilities &
> Computing Program
>
> Phone: 310 206-6004
> E-mail: burke <at> ucla. edu
>
>

From: Sean Keegan
Date: Mon, Jul 09 2007 3:20PM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

> In Adobe radio buttons seem to only read the RANGE,
> can't find a way to have it read individual (e.g. reads
> "colors" for each item rather than red, blue, pink).

Not exactly sure what you mean - I can create PDF forms that include radio
buttons where both the question and answer can be read with AT. I have been
able to do this with both Acrobat Pro and/or LiveCycle Designer.

How are you authoring your documents? Can you provide a URL to a PDF
sample?

sean


From: smithj7
Date: Wed, Jul 11 2007 4:20AM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

I can't seem to get the radio buttons in Adobe to act like html. It
appears to read each with the group name. Is there a page you send me
to for this one issue?

Note: I usually am asked to help fix files and rarely set up any adobe
files. I could not get the radio buttons to read individual buttons.
The few I do straight for a clean word code - check good in 7, good in
the first adobe check 8, but always bad in 508 adobe 8.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Keegan
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:16 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?


> In Adobe radio buttons seem to only read the RANGE,
> can't find a way to have it read individual (e.g. reads
> "colors" for each item rather than red, blue, pink).

Not exactly sure what you mean - I can create PDF forms that include
radio buttons where both the question and answer can be read with AT. I
have been able to do this with both Acrobat Pro and/or LiveCycle
Designer.

How are you authoring your documents? Can you provide a URL to a PDF
sample?

sean

From: Sean Keegan
Date: Wed, Jul 11 2007 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | Next message →

> I can't seem to get the radio buttons in Adobe to act like html.
> It appears to read each with the group name.

The way I generally set-up my radio buttons in HTML is by using the
<fieldset> and <legend> combination - this allows the question to be read as
the user moves from radio button to radio button. So, when I have created
radio buttons in PDF forms I follow a similar strategy where the question is
read as the user moves from radio button to radio button. Here is a sample
form that we currently have - warning PDF link:
http://www.htctu.net/trainings/information/reimbform.pdf

In the PDF, there is a question with a radio button Yes / No response (it
looks like a checkbox, but it is really a set of radio buttons). A
screen-reader in forms mode will read the question of "DSPS staff/faculty
member?" and then the current focus of the reader, either "Yes" or "No".

I originally set this up back in Acrobat Pro, and used the Tooltip field for
the question and then the Export Value field for the Yes / No response (the
Export Value is under the Options tab in the Radio Button Properties menu).

If you are using LiveCycle Designer - which is much easier to work with -
then it works in a similar manner. When you add a group of radio buttons,
the tooltip should be the question and the individual radio button labels
are the answers. I go into more detail about working with LiveCycle
Designer in my training manual (warning PDF link):
http://www.htctu.net/trainings/manuals/web/CreatingAccessibleAA8.pdf

I am not sure if this is the *exact* method that should be used, but I have
found it to work with JAWS, Supernova, and Window-Eyes.

sean

-----Original Message-----
From: smithj7 [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:15 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?

I can't seem to get the radio buttons in Adobe to act like html. It appears
to read each with the group name. Is there a page you send me to for this
one issue?

Note: I usually am asked to help fix files and rarely set up any adobe
files. I could not get the radio buttons to read individual buttons.
The few I do straight for a clean word code - check good in 7, good in the
first adobe check 8, but always bad in 508 adobe 8.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Keegan
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:16 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?


> In Adobe radio buttons seem to only read the RANGE, can't find a way
> to have it read individual (e.g. reads "colors" for each item rather
> than red, blue, pink).

Not exactly sure what you mean - I can create PDF forms that include radio
buttons where both the question and answer can be read with AT. I have been
able to do this with both Acrobat Pro and/or LiveCycle Designer.

How are you authoring your documents? Can you provide a URL to a PDF
sample?

sean

From: smithj7
Date: Thu, Jul 12 2007 6:50PM
Subject: Re: Automated Checking of PDF Documents?
← Previous message | No next message

Thanks Sean. I will be checking this out tomorrow afternoon at work. I
can't wait to see how it works!! I'm sorry I have a meeting in the
morning.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Keegan
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 5:26 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?


> I can't seem to get the radio buttons in Adobe to act like html.
> It appears to read each with the group name.

The way I generally set-up my radio buttons in HTML is by using the
<fieldset> and <legend> combination - this allows the question to be
read as the user moves from radio button to radio button. So, when I
have created radio buttons in PDF forms I follow a similar strategy
where the question is read as the user moves from radio button to radio
button. Here is a sample form that we currently have - warning PDF
link: http://www.htctu.net/trainings/information/reimbform.pdf

In the PDF, there is a question with a radio button Yes / No response
(it looks like a checkbox, but it is really a set of radio buttons). A
screen-reader in forms mode will read the question of "DSPS
staff/faculty member?" and then the current focus of the reader, either
"Yes" or "No".

I originally set this up back in Acrobat Pro, and used the Tooltip field
for the question and then the Export Value field for the Yes / No
response (the Export Value is under the Options tab in the Radio Button
Properties menu).

If you are using LiveCycle Designer - which is much easier to work with
- then it works in a similar manner. When you add a group of radio
buttons, the tooltip should be the question and the individual radio
button labels are the answers. I go into more detail about working with
LiveCycle Designer in my training manual (warning PDF link):
http://www.htctu.net/trainings/manuals/web/CreatingAccessibleAA8.pdf

I am not sure if this is the *exact* method that should be used, but I
have found it to work with JAWS, Supernova, and Window-Eyes.

sean

-----Original Message-----
From: smithj7 [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:15 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?

I can't seem to get the radio buttons in Adobe to act like html. It
appears to read each with the group name. Is there a page you send me
to for this one issue?

Note: I usually am asked to help fix files and rarely set up any adobe
files. I could not get the radio buttons to read individual buttons.
The few I do straight for a clean word code - check good in 7, good in
the first adobe check 8, but always bad in 508 adobe 8.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sean Keegan
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:16 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Automated Checking of PDF Documents?


> In Adobe radio buttons seem to only read the RANGE, can't find a way
> to have it read individual (e.g. reads "colors" for each item rather
> than red, blue, pink).

Not exactly sure what you mean - I can create PDF forms that include
radio buttons where both the question and answer can be read with AT. I
have been able to do this with both Acrobat Pro and/or LiveCycle
Designer.

How are you authoring your documents? Can you provide a URL to a PDF
sample?

sean