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Thread: iPhone with screen CSS support?

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From: Jorge Fernandes
Date: Sat, Sep 15 2007 9:10AM
Subject: iPhone with screen CSS support?
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Hi,

Recently I put this question "Why doesn’t Safari support the handheld
CSS media type in iPhone?" in a Portuguese forum. The answers was a
little agressive and seems me that I broke a leg to the "handheld"
iPhone. Seems me that call "handheld" to an iPhone is offending it...

I decided to put the question at Google search and, curiously I found
that I'm not isolated, but almost:

Said Joe Clark:

"There’s no need for user-agent sniffing, a debased practice from the
1990s. Why doesn’t Safari support the handheld CSS media type?"
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/scriptingnews/684663427/
#comment72157600591488277>

Did you think that someday Steve Jobs will write a letter to iPhone
Clients with the issue: "Why iPhone changed from screen to handheld
CSS support."?

I'll appreciate your comments.

Thanks,
Jorge Fernandes

++início do rodapé
Jorge Fernandes | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
universalaccess.blogspot.com

From: Bill Mason
Date: Sat, Sep 15 2007 10:40AM
Subject: Re: iPhone with screen CSS support?
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Jorge Fernandes wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Recently I put this question "Why doesn’t Safari support the handheld
> CSS media type in iPhone?" in a Portuguese forum. The answers was a
> little agressive and seems me that I broke a leg to the "handheld"
> iPhone. Seems me that call "handheld" to an iPhone is offending it...

First, I think it's fair to assume that one of the principles behind
iPhone Safari is to mostly "just work" with existing web content. The
developer pages on iPhone Safari [1] are sprinkled throughout with
statements such as:

"If you are a seasoned web developer, there are probably just a few
refinements you can make to ensure that your site looks great and works
best on iPhone."

"Standards-based web development techniques ensure the most consistent
presentation and functionality across all modern browsers, including
Safari on iPhone. A well-designed website will probably require just a
few refinements to look good and work well on iPhone."

> I decided to put the question at Google search and, curiously I found
> that I'm not isolated, but almost:
>
> Said Joe Clark:
>
> "There’s no need for user-agent sniffing, a debased practice from the
> 1990s. Why doesn’t Safari support the handheld CSS media type?"
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/scriptingnews/684663427/
> #comment72157600591488277>

Again my supposition, but one further goal of iPhone Safari is most
likely for web content created after the launch of iPhone to continue to
"just work" without necessarily having to target it specifically with CSS.

> Did you think that someday Steve Jobs will write a letter to iPhone
> Clients with the issue: "Why iPhone changed from screen to handheld
> CSS support."?

No, because if you do need to target iPhone in a more specific way, an
answer lies both in the Apple documents [1] and further down the same
Flickr thread [2]: CSS3 media queries.

[1] http://developer.apple.com/iphone/designingcontent.html
[2]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scriptingnews/684663427/comment72157600648597033/

--
Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://accessibleinter.net/

From: Tim Beadle
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:40AM
Subject: Re: iPhone with screen CSS support?
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On 15/09/2007, Jorge Fernandes < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Recently I put this question "Why doesn't Safari support the handheld
> CSS media type in iPhone?" in a Portuguese forum. The answers was a
> little agressive and seems me that I broke a leg to the "handheld"
> iPhone. Seems me that call "handheld" to an iPhone is offending it...

I don't have an iPhone, but I do have Opera Mini 4 Beta on my mobile
phone. Its approach seems very sensible: if there's a handheld style
sheet, use it; otherwise render the page almost as a desktop browser
would, but with zooming functionality to allow you to read text.

http://www.operamini.com/beta/

I have one other comment, though: just applying a handheld media type
style sheet isn't enough on its own. The content itself needs to be
tailored for the mobile context both for ease of use and to minimise
the amount of data sent to the device.

Good examples (IMHO):
http://m.facebook.com/ (wml - won't work in a desktop browser)
http://m.upcoming.yahoo.com/

Now, the good thing about Upcoming is that they only suggest that you
use the mobile version when you access the site using a mobile device;
the "full-fat" version is still an option. I know this breaks device
independence, but it meant that I could access the full record of an
event when I was out and about last week.

OK - one more comment: making iPhone-only sites is dumb.

Regards,

Tim

From: Austin, Darrel
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 8:20AM
Subject: Re: iPhone with screen CSS support?
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> Did you think that someday Steve Jobs will write a letter to iPhone
> Clients with the issue: "Why iPhone changed from screen to handheld
> CSS support."?

The iPhone Is running a regular version of Safari and, as far as it is
concerned, has no size inferiority complexes.

In otherwords, when using an iPhone, you see the full size page just as
you would on any desktop computer. You then zoom around it to read parts
of it. In that sense, it's rather accessible, as you can zoom the entire
page up as large as you need to.

So, I agree with Joe Clark in a way. That said, we have a similar
problem where sites are now building iPhone-only pages on their sites
which just seems to be compounding the issue...which makes me think
that, yes, indeed, the iPhone SHOULD support handheld CSS. I suppose the
issue, though, is that one would want different CSS for other handhelds
vs. the iPhone, which has a rather unique UI interface. Ugh...I just
argued a point in a complete circle there, I think...

-Darrel