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Thread: Math Online: Images or MathML?
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Elizabeth J. Pyatt
Date: Mon, Aug 18 2008 6:40PM
Subject: Math Online: Images or MathML?
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Hello:
I hope this isn't old territory, but we are working on an online
course with complicated enough equations to require an Equation
Editor.
The editor we are using (MathMagic) can export both image files and
MathML (within an XML file containing XHTML and MathML), but we want
to make sure the MathML is accessible for screen readers.
Does anyone have an opinion on whether MathML can be accessed by
screen readers or whether images with alt tags are still a safer
choice?
Thank you in advance.
Elizabeth Pyatt
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Education Technology Services, TLT/ITS
Penn State University
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = , (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)
210 Rider Building (formerly Rider II)
227 W. Beaver Avenue
State College, PA 16801-4819
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu
From: Christophe Strobbe
Date: Tue, Aug 19 2008 3:50AM
Subject: Re: Math Online: Images or MathML?
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Hi Elizabeth,
At 20:02 18/08/2008, you wrote:
>Hello:
>
>I hope this isn't old territory, but we are working on an online
>course with complicated enough equations to require an Equation
>Editor.
>
>The editor we are using (MathMagic) can export both image files and
>MathML (within an XML file containing XHTML and MathML), but we want
>to make sure the MathML is accessible for screen readers.
According to Design Science, their MathPlayer (plugin for IE) works
with JAWS, Window-Eyes, HAL, Read & Write, and BrowseAloud. MathPlayer
also has a zoom feature.
See <http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/040722.htm>;
and <http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/070917.htm>;.
There is some interesting information on Dominique Archambault's blog
"chez dom" at <http://chezdom.net/blog/>;, for example
"How to set up MS Internet Explorer for displaying MathML contents" at
<http://chezdom.net/blog/?p=35>;.
The @Science network has been collecting experiences and (best)
practices regarding access to mathematics and science, and its
deliverables are publicly available at
<http://www.ascience.eu/?q=en/pub_deliverables>;.
A related network, JEM - Joining Educational Mathematics, has also
published some accessibility-related items on one of their blogs;
see Olga Caprotti's blog at
<http://www.jem-thematic.net/en/blog/5>;.
>Does anyone have an opinion on whether MathML can be accessed by
>screen readers or whether images with alt tags are still a safer
>choice?
Out of curiosity, I would like to know what alt text you would
publish. Wikipedia uses LaTeX; see "Using LaTeX markup" in the
"Wikipedia Manual of Style (mathematics):
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(mathematics)>.
Best regards,
Christophe
>Thank you in advance.
>
>Elizabeth Pyatt
>--
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
>Instructional Designer
>Education Technology Services, TLT/ITS
>Penn State University
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = , (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)
>
>210 Rider Building (formerly Rider II)
>227 W. Beaver Avenue
>State College, PA 16801-4819
>http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
>http://tlt.psu.edu
--
Christophe Strobbe
K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
Research Group on Document Architectures
Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51
http://www.docarch.be/
---
Please don't invite me to LinkedIn, Facebook, Quechup or other
"social networks". You may have agreed to their "privacy policy", but
I haven't.
Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
From: Stephen L Noble
Date: Tue, Aug 19 2008 5:50AM
Subject: Re: Math Online: Images or MathML?
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For the benefit of those on the list, I'll share the email I sent Elizabeth...
----
Hi Elizabeth,
I have written extensively on this topic. Let me say flatly that using math images along with alt tags is a very poor substitute for true accessible math like MathML. Here are a couple of articles that help explain the difference between providing images and alt tags and providing truly accessible math:
http://www.dessci.com/en/solutions/access/mathaccess.htm
http://www.dessci.com/en/solutions/access/techissues.htm#The_problem_of_math_images
For a list of screen readers that can handle MathML just fine, see "Which Assistive Technology Products Have Math Support?"
http://www.dessci.com/en/solutions/access/atsupport.htm
Any of the reading tools that are listed as having "Basic Math Speech" can handle MathML. All the user needs to do is simply install the free MathPlayer plugin:
http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathplayer/default.htm
If you need any further information, please feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Steve Noble
RFB&D Kentucky Unit Board of Directors
Learning Disabilities Association of America National Board
Immediate Past President, Learning Disabilities Association of Kentucky
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
502-969-3088
>>> Christophe Strobbe < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 8/19/2008 5:46 AM >>>
Hi Elizabeth,
At 20:02 18/08/2008, you wrote:
>Hello:
>
>I hope this isn't old territory, but we are working on an online
>course with complicated enough equations to require an Equation
>Editor.
>
>The editor we are using (MathMagic) can export both image files and
>MathML (within an XML file containing XHTML and MathML), but we want
>to make sure the MathML is accessible for screen readers.
According to Design Science, their MathPlayer (plugin for IE) works
with JAWS, Window-Eyes, HAL, Read & Write, and BrowseAloud. MathPlayer
also has a zoom feature.
See <http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/040722.htm>;
and <http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/070917.htm>;.
There is some interesting information on Dominique Archambault's blog
"chez dom" at <http://chezdom.net/blog/>;, for example
"How to set up MS Internet Explorer for displaying MathML contents" at
<http://chezdom.net/blog/?p=35>;.
The @Science network has been collecting experiences and (best)
practices regarding access to mathematics and science, and its
deliverables are publicly available at
<http://www.ascience.eu/?q=en/pub_deliverables>;.
A related network, JEM - Joining Educational Mathematics, has also
published some accessibility-related items on one of their blogs;
see Olga Caprotti's blog at
<http://www.jem-thematic.net/en/blog/5>;.
>Does anyone have an opinion on whether MathML can be accessed by
>screen readers or whether images with alt tags are still a safer
>choice?
Out of curiosity, I would like to know what alt text you would
publish. Wikipedia uses LaTeX; see "Using LaTeX markup" in the
"Wikipedia Manual of Style (mathematics):
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(mathematics)>.
Best regards,
Christophe
>Thank you in advance.
>
>Elizabeth Pyatt
>--
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
>Instructional Designer
>Education Technology Services, TLT/ITS
>Penn State University
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = , (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)
>
>210 Rider Building (formerly Rider II)
>227 W. Beaver Avenue
>State College, PA 16801-4819
>http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
>http://tlt.psu.edu
--
Christophe Strobbe
K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
Research Group on Document Architectures
Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51
http://www.docarch.be/
---
Please don't invite me to LinkedIn, Facebook, Quechup or other
"social networks". You may have agreed to their "privacy policy", but
I haven't.
Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
From: M.Cooper
Date: Tue, Aug 19 2008 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Math Online: Images or MathML?
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Elizabeth,
I am afraid there is not a simple answer to your question. Apart from
the technical screen-reader access issue it depends in part how the
MathML is authored - whether content or presentation mark-up is used.
The complexity of the Math will impact on the degree to which these
issues fundamentally affect access to the Math. Also of great
significance is what has been the past background of the people seeking
screen-reader access. I.E what are there skills in interpreting maths
rendered in different ways?
For a recent paper discussing these issues see:
Cooper, M., Lowe, T., Taylor, M., Access to mathematics in web resources
for people with a visual impairment: considerations and developments in
an open and distance learning context, Proc. International Conference on
Computers Helping People, K. Miesenberger et al. (Eds.): ICCHP 2008,
LNCS 5105, pp. 926-933, Linz, Austria, 2008
Cheers,
Martyn
Martyn Cooper
Head: Accessibility in Educational Media team
Institute of Educational Technology
Open University, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1908 655729
Skype: martyncooper
Blog: http://martyncooper.wordpress.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=617661490
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
WWW: http://iet.open.ac.uk/pp/m.cooper/
---------------------------------
The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an
exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland
(SC 038302).
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth J. Pyatt [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 18 August 2008 19:03
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Math Online: Images or MathML?
Hello:
I hope this isn't old territory, but we are working on an online
course with complicated enough equations to require an Equation
Editor.
The editor we are using (MathMagic) can export both image files and
MathML (within an XML file containing XHTML and MathML), but we want
to make sure the MathML is accessible for screen readers.
Does anyone have an opinion on whether MathML can be accessed by
screen readers or whether images with alt tags are still a safer
choice?
Thank you in advance.
Elizabeth Pyatt
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Education Technology Services, TLT/ITS
Penn State University
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = , (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)
210 Rider Building (formerly Rider II)
227 W. Beaver Avenue
State College, PA 16801-4819
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu
---------------------------------
The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
From: Elizabeth J. Pyatt
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 6:50AM
Subject: Re: Math Online: Images or MathML?
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Thanks everyone for getting back to me about MathML. I'm still poring
through the details, but I can see that there is a lot of useful
information already.
Cheers
Elizabeth
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Education Technology Services, TLT/ITS
Penn State University
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = , (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)
210 Rider Building (formerly Rider II)
227 W. Beaver Avenue
State College, PA 16801-4819
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu