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Thread: Resize text buttons
Number of posts in this thread: 21 (In chronological order)
From: Paul Collins
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 4:30AM
Subject: Resize text buttons
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Hi all,
I'm just wondering, as I occasionally get fed designs that have "text resize" buttons on the page. (EG - small, medium, large). I'm wondering, do people ever use these? I would have thought anyone who needs to resize text would be aware of how to do it. Also, the latest versions of the popular browsers, (namely Internet Explorer and Firefox), use the Zoom tool these days, which enlarges images as well as text.
Would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
Cheers
From: Adri Edwards-Johnson
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 4:35AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
In our public library setting we do use them. Dealing with the general
public (seniors or those not familiar with computers) they don't have the
computer know-how to use short cut keys but once shown the visual cue on a
web page they remember how to click that on how to resize.
--
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Paul Collins < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm just wondering, as I occasionally get fed designs that have "text
> resize" buttons on the page. (EG - small, medium, large). I'm wondering, do
> people ever use these? I would have thought anyone who needs to resize text
> would be aware of how to do it. Also, the latest versions of the popular
> browsers, (namely Internet Explorer and Firefox), use the Zoom tool these
> days, which enlarges images as well as text.
>
> Would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
> Cheers
>
>
From: Peter Krantz
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 5:05AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
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On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:32, Paul Collins < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I'm just wondering, as I occasionally get fed designs that have "text resize" buttons on the page. (EG - small, medium, large). I'm wondering, do people ever use these? I would have thought anyone who needs to resize text would be aware of how to do it. Also, the latest versions of the popular browsers, (namely Internet Explorer and Firefox), use the Zoom tool these days, which enlarges images as well as text.
>
In our national guidelines for public sector websites we have advised
against creating functionality that duplicates that which already
exists in most browsers (e.g. text resize, print page etc). Resize
buttons are typically implemented diffrently on each website and
contribute to confusion.
If you instead present information about how to use the browser text
resize menu you enable a user to resize text on any website.
Regards,
Peter Krantz
Stockholm, Sweden
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 5:10AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
Ideally, the onus should be on web browser developers to have clearly
visible big buttons for the resize/zoom functionality in their default
browser chrome. Having sites add text size functionality on a
site-by-site basis is not really an ideal sustainable model. What
happens when users follow a link and end up on a site that didn't
implement any text resizing widget?
In the library/internet cafe/etc setting, it would be great if the
maintainers could set up the browsers accordingly (for instance, with
Firefox, installing the zoom toolbar
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6118) and/or gave info
sheets/briefings/courses to teach users that need this functionality
how they can actually use their browsers and set them up to their
particular needs.
In an ideal world, of course...
A halfway house is having a page that gives a short explanation of how
users can change common settings, plus a link to something like BBC's
My Web My Way http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ (though I wish the
BBC would set this up as a stand-alone advice site, rather than have
it as a subdirectory of the BBC site...)
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
From: Carol Wheeler
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 8:20AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
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Peter Krantz said:
>In our national guidelines for public sector websites we have advised against creating functionality that duplicates that which
>already exists in most browsers (e.g. text resize, print page etc).
That certainly assumes a level of sophistication that may not exist for many users that could benefit. I know that for most of our users, who tend to be older than average, it wouldn't be a safe bet, and there are probably a good portion of them who could benefit from resizing.
Carol E. Wheeler
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web Department
American Institute for Cancer Research
1759 R Street NW
Washington DC 20009
Tel: 202-328-7744
Fax: 202-328-7226
http://www.aicr.org
From: Paul Collins
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 8:25AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks for your replies.
Yes, you're right that it does assume people know a lot about their browser. However, perhaps a page explaining how to do it on your browser would be better than having the buttons on the site. The people could re-use that knowledge once they leave the site.
Cheers again.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Carol Wheeler
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:17 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resize text buttons
Peter Krantz said:
>In our national guidelines for public sector websites we have advised against creating functionality that duplicates that which
>already exists in most browsers (e.g. text resize, print page etc).
That certainly assumes a level of sophistication that may not exist for many users that could benefit. I know that for most of our users, who tend to be older than average, it wouldn't be a safe bet, and there are probably a good portion of them who could benefit from resizing.
Carol E. Wheeler
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web Department
American Institute for Cancer Research
1759 R Street NW
Washington DC 20009
Tel: 202-328-7744
Fax: 202-328-7226
http://www.aicr.org
From: Randall Pope
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 9:15AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello Paul,
Posting a simple instruction on using the browser setting would be an ideal
world but in reality that would not work for those who cannot understand
simple technical instruction, not to mention the visual language issues such
as sign language. I have been getting requests for sign language videos to
interpret the content of the page which is their native language. Many
people of the Deaf community fall into this group, not to mention the low
vision DeafBlind people.
Being a low vision DeafBlind person myself, I would rather have the choice
of page size and color background on the webpage instead of using the
browser. Often the browser choice does not work for me. A good example is
Facebook at http://m.facebook.com which does a better job than the Foxfire's
browser "no style" setting. In this case the Facebook team decided to use
another domain name to address the low vision issues and using their own CSS
style instead of letting the browser determined the visual looks of the
page.
Another thought: Having the font resizing and background color preference on
the webpage itself will also give the webmaster or designer more control to
match the viewers preference.
Hope this helps
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:27 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resize text buttons
Thanks for your replies.
Yes, you're right that it does assume people know a lot about their browser.
However, perhaps a page explaining how to do it on your browser would be
better than having the buttons on the site. The people could re-use that
knowledge once they leave the site.
Cheers again.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Carol Wheeler
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:17 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resize text buttons
Peter Krantz said:
>In our national guidelines for public sector websites we have advised
against creating functionality that duplicates that which
>already exists in most browsers (e.g. text resize, print page etc).
That certainly assumes a level of sophistication that may not exist for many
users that could benefit. I know that for most of our users, who tend to be
older than average, it wouldn't be a safe bet, and there are probably a good
portion of them who could benefit from resizing.
Carol E. Wheeler
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web Department
American Institute for Cancer Research
1759 R Street NW
Washington DC 20009
Tel: 202-328-7744
Fax: 202-328-7226
http://www.aicr.org
From: Peter Krantz
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 9:25AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 16:16, Carol Wheeler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> That certainly assumes a level of sophistication that may not exist for many users that could benefit.
> I know that for most of our users, who tend to be older than average, it wouldn't be a
> safe bet, and there are probably a good portion of them who could benefit from resizing.
But f you have a page that explains how to adjust text size (with the
built in browser functionality) and print pages there shouldn't be any
problem. For the official public sector portal here they did user
testing with users above 60 and they had no problem finding the
information about text resizing and using to to adjust size according
to their needs.
As Paul noted, this will also be beneficial when the user is on a
different site that doesn't provide custom resize controls.
Also, in my experience, custom resize functionality rarely match users
expectations (too little or too much). And, it does not resize images
the way modern browsers can.
Regards,
Peter
From: Dean Hamack
Date: Thu, Jan 08 2009 12:00PM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
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On 1/8/09 8:12 AM, "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> A good example is
> Facebook at http://m.facebook.com which does a better job than the Foxfire's
> browser "no style" setting. In this case the Facebook team decided to use
> another domain name to address the low vision issues and using their own CSS
> style instead of letting the browser determined the visual looks of the
> page.
That's very interesting. "m.facebook.com" is actually the mobile website
that one automatically gets redirected to when they access the site from a
mobile phone or ipod. But I don't see an option on their regular site to
switch to that layout as an option. So I would assume that most people who
have never visited facebook on a phone don't even know it exists.
Out of curiosity, how did you discover it Randy?
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 9:00AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009, Peter Krantz = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>But if you have a page that explains how to adjust text size (with the
>built in browser functionality) and print pages there shouldn't be any
>problem.
I hate to toss in a hand grenade here, but I'm curious: What font size should we use on such a page? I love, for example, all the information available on the BBC's page (http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/), but I have to wonder how I would be able to read it if I needed that information.
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Randall Pope
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 9:25AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Cliff,
Your point is the reason for the font size and color background preference
setting on the website itself for people with low vision issues. For those
who used screen readers that would not be a problem.
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Cliff Tyllick
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resize text buttons
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009, Peter Krantz = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>But if you have a page that explains how to adjust text size (with the
>built in browser functionality) and print pages there shouldn't be any
>problem.
I hate to toss in a hand grenade here, but I'm curious: What font size
should we use on such a page? I love, for example, all the information
available on the BBC's page (http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/), but I
have to wonder how I would be able to read it if I needed that information.
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Randall Pope
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 9:30AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Dean,
A friend told me about this particular website. How this friend found it, I
will need to ask him who is a diehard fan of Facebook. You're right there
are no options for the font size and color background. Perhaps many of the
web designers and others did not think about the low vision issues and left
this out.
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dean Hamack
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:00 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resize text buttons
On 1/8/09 8:12 AM, "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> A good example is
> Facebook at http://m.facebook.com which does a better job than the
Foxfire's
> browser "no style" setting. In this case the Facebook team decided to use
> another domain name to address the low vision issues and using their own
CSS
> style instead of letting the browser determined the visual looks of the
> page.
That's very interesting. "m.facebook.com" is actually the mobile website
that one automatically gets redirected to when they access the site from a
mobile phone or ipod. But I don't see an option on their regular site to
switch to that layout as an option. So I would assume that most people who
have never visited facebook on a phone don't even know it exists.
Out of curiosity, how did you discover it Randy?
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 10:50AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
I understand that, Randy, but my point is that people with low vision issues might not be able to see the BBC's message that they can "Change font size and colours on this site."
If they can't see well enough to see the instructions, how do the instructions help?
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 1/9/2009 10:22 AM >>>
Hi Cliff,
Your point is the reason for the font size and color background preference
setting on the website itself for people with low vision issues. For those
who used screen readers that would not be a problem.
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Cliff Tyllick
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:42 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resize text buttons
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009, Peter Krantz = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>But if you have a page that explains how to adjust text size (with the
>built in browser functionality) and print pages there shouldn't be any
>problem.
I hate to toss in a hand grenade here, but I'm curious: What font size
should we use on such a page? I love, for example, all the information
available on the BBC's page (http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/), but I
have to wonder how I would be able to read it if I needed that information.
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 3:15PM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
Cliff Tyllick wrote:
> I understand that, Randy, but my point is that people with low vision issues might not be able to see the BBC's message that they can "Change font size and colours on this site."
How do they see the windows login, the start menu or the icon for IE on
the desktop, the address bar or bookmark to get to the BBC site in the
first place?
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
From: Jared Smith
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Cliff Tyllick wrote:
>> I understand that, Randy, but my point is that people with low vision issues might not be able to see the BBC's message that they can "Change font size and colours on this site."
>
> How do they see the windows login, the start menu or the icon for IE on
> the desktop, the address bar or bookmark to get to the BBC site in the
> first place?
I *think* the point Patrick is making is that if the user absolutely
requires large text, they are going to have it regardless of whether
you provide a text resize button/widget/whatever. So, that eliminates
this segment of the population from benefiting from it. That pretty
much leaves a very small portion of your audience (those with slightly
low vision that don't already have enlarged fonts or screens) that
*might* benefit from this. Additionally, those that are blind, deaf,
have motor disabilities, have cognitive disabilities, have no
disabilities at all, etc. have a very strong likelihood of, at a
minimum getting no benefit from, and at most being annoyed, confused,
burdened, or otherwise disadvantaged, by your text resize widget.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 4:45PM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
I wholeheartedly agree, Jared. Much as I admire the BBC page and widget, if I can see it, I don't need it. (And if I really did need it, the largest text it produces wouldn't help.)
And much as I would appreciate the BBC's telling me all this useful information, they are not the source I would look to for information on using my computer.
I'm not campaigning for them to remove what they have, but I don't see it as a standard everyone else should emulate.
Cliff
>>> "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 1/9/2009 4:26 PM >>>
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Cliff Tyllick wrote:
>> I understand that, Randy, but my point is that people with low vision issues might not be able to see the BBC's message that they can "Change font size and colours on this site."
>
> How do they see the windows login, the start menu or the icon for IE on
> the desktop, the address bar or bookmark to get to the BBC site in the
> first place?
I *think* the point Patrick is making is that if the user absolutely
requires large text, they are going to have it regardless of whether
you provide a text resize button/widget/whatever. So, that eliminates
this segment of the population from benefiting from it. That pretty
much leaves a very small portion of your audience (those with slightly
low vision that don't already have enlarged fonts or screens) that
*might* benefit from this. Additionally, those that are blind, deaf,
have motor disabilities, have cognitive disabilities, have no
disabilities at all, etc. have a very strong likelihood of, at a
minimum getting no benefit from, and at most being annoyed, confused,
burdened, or otherwise disadvantaged, by your text resize widget.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Dean Hamack
Date: Fri, Jan 09 2009 5:10PM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
I think the stuff on the BBC site while well-intentioned, is overkill. You
have to jump through a series of links to get to the information that
pertains to your platform, browser, and disability. And they give you like 8
different layout choices complete with screenshots. Sometimes, too many
choices can be a bad thing.
I think I'll stick with my plan of a prominently displayed pulldown menu
containing "default" and "high contrast". Perhaps I'll add a "large text"
option as well.
From: M Akram Danish
Date: Sun, Jan 11 2009 9:20AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
I am deaf and I used glasses, not blind though
I can see well and when I have to overview the page I don't need to resize the text, but when i start reading any lengthy content I prefer larger text, when I didn't know how to change the size from browser menu, resize button was helpful. But yes there might NOT be so many such people so why worry about them?
and according to your Government Persons with Disabilities are of just 2.4% , only only 2.4%.......... .......................
Akram
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Mon, Jan 12 2009 10:30AM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
Akram, I don't think any of us is suggesting that we should not worry about people with disabilities. Each of us in this forum is working diligently to ensure that our Web sites are easy for everyone to use.
We're discussing these two general issues:
1. Should each Web site reproduce functions that improve accessibility but are already present in every computer's operating system, every browser, or both? (For example, should every one of us come up with our own text resize button?)
2. Should each Web site have its own extended explanation of how to use the features that are built in to each operating system and browser? (Should we all do as the BBC has done?)
As for the first issue, if I spend time reproducing something you already have, then I will have to spend less time reviewing the content that is unique to my Web site. As a result, I will be less able to make sure that content is fully accessible. Also, whatever I develop to reproduce the features already built into your operating system and browser is not likely to be as useful as those features. For example, the resize button on the BBC's site doesn't change the font size by very much. I don't know how they decided how big is "big enough," but their biggest option is not big enough for me to read without my glasses unless I get uncomfortably close to the screen. But a simple feature that is in every browser and operating system I know of lets me read any Web page that is properly coded. All I have to do is press "Control-Shift-+" until the text gets big enough to work for me. (You can also press "Control-Hyphen" to make the text smaller.)
And as for the second issue, I really don't think you want me to explain how each operating system and browser works. It would take me a very long time to develop and verify each explanation needed. By the time I finished that project, there would be many new versions of operating systems and browsers available. Yes, it is very important to have that information available, but you need the people who developed and tested your system and software to explain how its features work, because they at least know how it is supposed to work.
You are important to us. But I can best help you by focusing on making my agency's Web site accessible (we have a long way to go), not by creating my own version of a solution to a problem that has already been solved.
Thanks for participating in this discussion!
Cliff
>>> M Akram Danish < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 1/11/2009 10:17 AM >>>
I am deaf and I used glasses, not blind though
I can see well and when I have to overview the page I don't need to resize the text, but when i start reading any lengthy content I prefer larger text, when I didn't know how to change the size from browser menu, resize button was helpful. But yes there might NOT be so many such people so why worry about them?
and according to your Government Persons with Disabilities are of just 2.4% , only only 2.4%.......... .......................
Akram
From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Date: Mon, Jan 12 2009 12:05PM
Subject: Re: Resize text buttons
← Previous message | Next message →
On 8/1/09 16:12, Randall Pope wrote:
> Posting a simple instruction on using the browser setting would be an ideal
> world but in reality that would not work for those who cannot understand
> simple technical instruction, not to mention the visual language issues such
> as sign language. I have been getting requests for sign language videos to
> interpret the content of the page which is their native language.
If you are catering to non-technical users, videos are probably a key
educational tool.
If you are catering to users who need sign language interpretation of
page content, then a page describing how to use their browser should
also be sign language interpreted.
For me, the key difference is that with sizing widgets, 1) users must
relearn the widgets for every site and 2) the technique is useless for
the vast majority of the web that provides no such widgets, effectively
locking such users into an inconsistent accessibility ghetto.
Is it harder to learn how to use browser widgets than site widgets? The
default user interface on browsers hides font size and color features
away. But assuming good enough help from content producers, software
vendors, friends, and family, I think the difference is easily
exaggerated. In any case, I think giving people access to the wider web
is well worth helping them over the initial learning curve.
Pretty much the only place I would provide a site widget would be on a
site that explained how to use your browser's own interface.
Does this mean that every site should be writing its own version of the
BBC's My Web, My Way? I don't think that would be good for users; it
certainly wouldn't be practical. What would be great is if W3C hosted a
centralized resource, along the lines of My Web, My Way, and the rest of
the web just linked to that.
> Being a low vision DeafBlind person myself, I would rather have the choice
> of page size and color background on the webpage instead of using the
> browser. Often the browser choice does not work for me. A good example is
> Facebook at http://m.facebook.com which does a better job than the Foxfire's
> browser "no style" setting.
Hmm. Some scattered thoughts:
* m.facebook.com is a radical reimagining of the site for mobile devices
(hence the "m") rather than a straight forward reskinning with a
different font size or color scheme, so I don't think it's really an
example of the sort of widgets the thread is talking about.
* If all you want to do is enforce your own colors and zoom/font-size,
you might be better off setting those directly (
http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Accessibility ) rather than using
"No Styles".
* I think Firefox's implementation of "No Styles" is problematic as an
accessibility feature anyway, since it ignores the presentational width
and height attributes of objects and iframes and just renders them all
the same size, messing up the presentation of many videos and
transcludes. Facebook is just one example of a site badly affected by
this implementation (if you switch to "No Styles" on the homepage, the
first thing in the page is a big empty iframe and the second thing is an
oversized Flash embed). In terms of built-in alternate views, Opera's
views offer more choice and generally seem to work better than
Firefox's, in my experience.
* It's just no use comparing sites that provide site widgets with sites
that haven't even tried to function with varying zooms/font
sizes/colors. A fairer comparison is with sites that have attempted to
flex with browser configuration. Granted, if your site doesn't flex with
browser configuration, then providing site-specific UI is better than
nothing. But that's a repair measure.
* Facebook isn't exactly an example of best practice for markup or
styling! For example, if you increase the text size on your homepage,
the main content area overlays the top menu bar because the top menu bar
has been absolutely positioned (i.e. assumptions have been made about
how much vertical space it will require - assumptions based on a fixed
font size). They also have a tendency to use DIV elements as style hooks
where SPAN might be more appropriate, producing any overly "blocky" page
with default browser styles.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
From: M Akram Danish
Date: Mon, Jan 12 2009 3:45PM
Subject: Resize text button
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Thanks Cliff ,
I understand all of your points.
when I read something like "there are not many people who use" it remind me that excuse that many parties use. They say we don't need slope / ramp none of our customer use wheelchair. We don't need vibrator no deaf customer staying in our hotel, and according to our government PWDs are just 2.4%. Ratio must not be the excuse.
about websites a standard solution sure that would be the best option. I don't think Control-Shift-+ work with IE 6, nor it worked with firfox 3.0.5. I don't know about IE but with Firfox Ctrl - + and Ctrl - - worked fine. I think if Browser use same shortcut that would be great.
Also it may not be good to use resize tex button in the webpage but may be a standard Accessibility bar can be developed. that will elemiante the need of such resize button in our web pages (is there such bar exist ?)
Few things I'd like to share from my expereince. I am teaching online to Persons with Disabilities, they all using computer since some time many are using since years but
- they don't know much about their browser
- they even donw know if they are using Internet Explorer or what
- they have no knowlwedge about the version
if visitor unable to read well he / she may simply leave instead of reading how he / she can set his / her browser. some feel frustration as they are not surfing that web to learn teach things.
I always think that giving them eas in navigation and funcationaly in the web page would be great, but same time I undertand that everone implementing his / own solution and it may ends up with more confusion for end-user.
again if browser developer agree with some standard that would be best for all of us.
besides I'd like to ask will it be handy to dedicate the opearting system, browser, and its version with script, then disply on the related instruction for accessibility insteading of asking if you are using this then do this if using this then do this ?
In another post someone said about Sign Languge, yes this is fact that even the navigation links need to be interprete as many deaf people can't read spoken language. That is a big issue and will open more related issues. eSign is a good effort.
Akram
Akram, I don't think any of us is suggesting that we should not worry
about people with disabilities. Each of us in this forum is working
diligently to ensure that our Web sites are easy for everyone to use.
We're discussing these two general issues:
1.
Should each Web site reproduce functions that improve accessibility but
are already present in every computer's operating system, every
browser, or both? (For example, should every one of us come up with our
own text resize button?)
2. Should each Web site have its own
extended explanation of how to use the features that are built in to
each operating system and browser? (Should we all do as the BBC has
done?)
As for the first issue, if I spend time reproducing
something you already have, then I will have to spend less time
reviewing the content that is unique to my Web site. As a result, I
will be less able to make sure that content is fully accessible. Also,
whatever I develop to reproduce the features already built into your
operating system and browser is not likely to be as useful as those
features. For example, the resize button on the BBC's site doesn't
change the font size by very much. I don't know how they decided how
big is "big enough," but their biggest option is not big enough for me
to read without my glasses unless I get uncomfortably close to the
screen. But a simple feature that is in every browser and operating
system I know of lets me read any Web page that is properly coded. All
I have to do is press "Control-Shift-+" until the text gets big enough
to work for me. (You can also press "Control-Hyphen" to make the text
smaller.)
And as for the second issue, I really don't think you
want me to explain how each operating system and browser works. It
would take me a very long time to develop and verify each explanation
needed. By the time I finished that project, there would be many new
versions of operating systems and browsers available. Yes, it is very
important to have that information available, but you need the people
who developed and tested your system and software to explain how its
features work, because they at least know how it is supposed to work.
You
are important to us. But I can best help you by focusing on making my
agency's Web site accessible (we have a long way to go), not by
creating my own version of a solution to a problem that has already
been solved.
Thanks for participating in this discussion!
Cliff
>>> M Akram Danish < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 1/11/2009 10:17 AM >>>
I am deaf and I used glasses, not blind though
I
can see well and when I have to overview the page I don't need to
resize the text, but when i start reading any lengthy content I prefer
larger text, when I didn't know how to change the size from browser
menu, resize button was helpful. But yes there might NOT be so many
such people so why worry about them?
and according to your Government Persons with Disabilities are of just 2.4% , only only 2.4%.......... .......................
Akram